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I think this thread can be fun. As the title says... Which list/build do you think is the most competitive today? Everybody will have his own thoughts I guess.
I will start saying the Necron Flyerspam. It's incredibly resilient due to the lack of AA fire and still has troops to get objectives...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
... No restrictions on WAAC lists, strange alliances and so on... we are interested only in sheer power here!!!

Necron Flyerspam. Necrons, if I'm told, have the best flyers, and if you combine that with their shooting, they're unstoppable.

Really, there's not even an argument or discussion here. By far, Necron Flyer Spam is the best army in the game. There's nothing out there that even competes with it.

Thirding the Cron flyer list of facerape

I agree that it's tough, but I see no reason that a BA list with two Storm Ravens and a Skyfire fortification couldn't hand it to Flying 'crons.

I know anecdotal examples are weak. But I had 2 stormtalons and an allied Stormraven rip through three 'crons flying croissants in one turn (I choose to deploy second so the cron flyers would come out before me). I would think that an Ork list with Dakkajets could Waah! and have similar results.

We have two cron players and one who allies on a cron flyer in our local scene. I don't find them any scarier than other top tier lists.

My vote right now would be an Ork flyer/biker list with allied Chaos oblits and some plague marines.

Yes, there are lists that can defeat Necron Flyerspam. However, you generally would need a heavily tailored list to have any chance at all. No list is unbeatable, but Necron Flyerspam can probably beat the greatest number of lists with the greatest amount of consistency- and that is why it's the most OP build right now.

The key with that list is to play smart.

Focus on the objectives, don't give him juicy targets for the Deathray(like 3+ vehicles lined up) and only shoot the Doomscythes. They are where the list's teeth are. If you can down them, the Nightscythes are really just a fast transport.


Those lists tend to rely on small scoring units in the Nightscythes. If you can grab the objectives, he can have difficulty taking them away.

But its still an uphill battle, and you cannot afford to make mistakes.

Necron flyerspam. Each flyer can kill ~10 MEQ a turn, as well as being damn near impossible to kill. And they're what, 170 points? Oh and they carry troops too.

Or maybe 2,000 guard with 6 Vendettas, but vendettas were always under-costed.

Notice the recurring theme?

Testify wrote:Necron flyerspam. Each flyer can kill ~10 MEQ a turn, as well as being damn near impossible to kill. And they're what, 170 points? Oh and they carry troops too.

Or maybe 2,000 guard with 6 Vendettas, but vendettas were always under-costed.

Notice the recurring theme?

Wow! What are they shooting? That's an impressive kill tally.

Eldarain wrote:

Testify wrote:Necron flyerspam. Each flyer can kill ~10 MEQ a turn, as well as being damn near impossible to kill. And they're what, 170 points? Oh and they carry troops too.

Or maybe 2,000 guard with 6 Vendettas, but vendettas were always under-costed.

Notice the recurring theme?

Wow! What are they shooting? That's an impressive kill tally.

Death ray. 3D6 inches, anything underneath it gets a S10 AP1 hit. So it can happily kill a bucketload of MEQ, and a load of tanks too.
Every.
fething.
Turn.

Oh, twin-linked tesla destroyer too.
That's an Assault 4 S7 AP-. Each 6 on a to-hit means you get 2 extra hits.
With that many high strength wounds, you can kill pretty much anything.

As it happens my local 'cron player is too much of a gentleman to use more than one of these but if you spam them it's pretty much instant win.

Testify wrote:

Eldarain wrote:

Testify wrote:Necron flyerspam. Each flyer can kill ~10 MEQ a turn, as well as being damn near impossible to kill. And they're what, 170 points? Oh and they carry troops too.

Or maybe 2,000 guard with 6 Vendettas, but vendettas were always under-costed.

Notice the recurring theme?

Wow! What are they shooting? That's an impressive kill tally.

Death ray. 3D6 inches, anything underneath it gets a S10 AP1 hit. So it can happily kill a bucketload of MEQ, and a load of tanks too.
Every.
fething.
Turn.

Oh, twin-linked tesla destroyer too.
That's an Assault 4 S7 AP-. Each 6 on a to-hit means you get 2 extra hits.
With that many high strength wounds, you can kill pretty much anything.

As it happens my local 'cron player is too much of a gentleman to use more than one of these but if you spam them it's pretty much instant win.

Unbelievable! I'd like to think if I got the chance to write the new book for my favourite army I would show more restraint.

Eldarain wrote:

Testify wrote:

Eldarain wrote:

Testify wrote:Necron flyerspam. Each flyer can kill ~10 MEQ a turn, as well as being damn near impossible to kill. And they're what, 170 points? Oh and they carry troops too.

Or maybe 2,000 guard with 6 Vendettas, but vendettas were always under-costed.

Notice the recurring theme?

Wow! What are they shooting? That's an impressive kill tally.

Death ray. 3D6 inches, anything underneath it gets a S10 AP1 hit. So it can happily kill a bucketload of MEQ, and a load of tanks too.
Every.
fething.
Turn.

Oh, twin-linked tesla destroyer too.
That's an Assault 4 S7 AP-. Each 6 on a to-hit means you get 2 extra hits.
With that many high strength wounds, you can kill pretty much anything.

As it happens my local 'cron player is too much of a gentleman to use more than one of these but if you spam them it's pretty much instant win.

Unbelievable! I'd like to think if I got the chance to write the new book for my favourite army I would show more restraint.

But you're not Matt Ward.

And for what it's worth, Necron Flyerspam is utterly broken, but it's hardly the only obscenely overpowered unit in the Necron book. The entire codex is broken.

How is a Deathray killing more then 2-3 marines a turn?

even nominal spacing should see the marines caught by it be relativly minimal.

Exactly, the death ray isn't killing 10 marines a turn, it is killing 2-3. Perhaps the reason so many people think necron flier spam is broken is they have a poor understanding of the rules.

IcedAnimals wrote:Exactly, the death ray isn't killing 10 marines a turn, it is killing 2-3. Perhaps the reason so many people think necron flier spam is broken is they have a poor understanding of the rules.

No, you can cover far more than 2 or 3 marines with 3 D6". The average roll on that is 10.5". You seriously telling me that you could only get 3 marines in a 10.5 inch line?


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Fafnir wrote:
But you're not Matt Ward.

And for what it's worth, Necron Flyerspam is utterly broken, but it's hardly the only obscenely overpowered unit in the Necron book. The entire codex is broken.

That's a bit unfair. I'd say it was very powerful, but I wouldn't say it was broken the way GK in 5th was broken.

It's possible to play against a necron player without feeling like you're being dicked over by Matt Ward...just not very common

Wait doesn't the Doom Scythe have 2 tesla destructors making it 8 s7 shots?

Unless they're all bunched or lined up, its not going to happen. even on a 10" line.

Maybe you can get 5 on a good day.

SiLKY wrote:Wait doesn't the Doom Scythe have 2 tesla destructors making it 8 s7 shots?

Nope, just one.Doesn't have the option to take another.

Grey Templar wrote:Unless they're all bunched or lined up, its not going to happen. even on a 10" line.

Maybe you can get 5 on a good day.

5 would be average. Against any foot marine list you're looking at more than that. And it'll pop their transports too. Bare in mind this is something that requires 6s to hit...

Testify wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fafnir wrote:
But you're not Matt Ward.

And for what it's worth, Necron Flyerspam is utterly broken, but it's hardly the only obscenely overpowered unit in the Necron book. The entire codex is broken.

That's a bit unfair. I'd say it was very powerful, but I wouldn't say it was broken the way GK in 5th was broken.

It's possible to play against a necron player without feeling like you're being dicked over by Matt Ward...just not very common

I would disagree here. Grey Knights were extremely powerful upon their release, but I felt that they always played second fiddle (third?) to Spacewolves and Imperial Guard. The Necrons play in a league all their own.

Testify wrote:

SiLKY wrote:
Maybe you can get 5 on a good day.

5 would be average. Against any foot marine list you're looking at more than that. And it'll pop their transports too. Bare in mind this is something that requires 6s to hit...

And also keep in mind that it can evade for a 5+ cover save every turn, and its ray will still be just as effective, since it doesn't have to roll to hit in the first place.

Just a couple of questions:
1. Does the doom/night scythe have shielding?

2. Is the doom scythe fast attack or heavy support?

Thanks

Tod wrote:Just a couple of questions:
1. Does the doom/night scythe have shielding?

2. Is the doom scythe fast attack or heavy support?

Thanks

1. No, just AV11/11/11
2. Heavy Support

The scary thing about the necron air force is a combination of terrific firepower on blindingly fast vehicles that always get the alpha strike on a chassis that is 3 to 4 times harder to kill then a rhino based vehicle. Also, the Nightscythes carry scoring units, and in the worst case scenario when one of your birds craters badly....the troops aren't hurt at all and get to just waltz onto the board next turn. It's literally all positives with the only weakness being massed hordes or massed enemy fliers with a SLIM, almost impossible, chance of you being able to knock the on table units out before the flyers arrive.

This will all change (hopefully) with the release of new dex with access to flak missiles and the like. In the meantime anyone that fields the flying corissant list is a weenie. Fafnir has been haning around some threads that deal with balance in 40k and i have to agree that lists like the necron flying crossiant list of doom beg for a little bit of balance in the game.

SkyCron/ScytheWing lists

Once ML start getting Flak missiles, I think the Cron Flyers will see their effectiveness drop off quickly...

Plus we need to see how the new DA flyer and the Chaos Dragon do,

Well, I think we get that the common consensus is that Flying RoboCircus is the best, but what are the other lists on the top of the heap?

DOOMBREAD wrote:Necron Flyerspam. Necrons, if I'm told, have the best flyers, and if you combine that with their shooting, they're unstoppable.

Grey Templar wrote:Unless they're all bunched or lined up, its not going to happen. even on a 10" line.

Maybe you can get 5 on a good day.

This. It has to be in a straight line, it cannot be outside of the weapon arc horizontally or vertically - so 22.5 degrees left and right, and DOWN 22.5 degrees, as that is out of LOS and therefore cannot wound. Given it can only ever Zoom if you play smart you have planned for it taking a turn or possibly 2 before it can bring its guns to bear.

Testify wrote:

SiLKY wrote:
Maybe you can get 5 on a good day.

5 would be average. Against any foot marine list you're looking at more than that. And it'll pop their transports too. Bare in mind this is something that requires 6s to hit...

And also keep in mind that it can evade for a 5+ cover save every turn, and its ray will still be just as effective, since it doesn't have to roll to hit in the first place.

 PhrycePhyre wrote:
Well, I think we get that the common consensus is that Flying RoboCircus is the best, but what are the other lists on the top of the heap?

Necrons in general. Even if you discount their flyers, they still have the best shooting and some of the best assault units in the game.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

You cannot snapfire weapons that do not use BS to hit. If iut evades it CANNOT use the deathray

Flamers?

 Fafnir wrote:

Eldarain wrote:

Testify wrote:

Eldarain wrote:

Testify wrote:Necron flyerspam. Each flyer can kill ~10 MEQ a turn, as well as being damn near impossible to kill. And they're what, 170 points? Oh and they carry troops too.

Or maybe 2,000 guard with 6 Vendettas, but vendettas were always under-costed.

Notice the recurring theme?

Wow! What are they shooting? That's an impressive kill tally.

Death ray. 3D6 inches, anything underneath it gets a S10 AP1 hit. So it can happily kill a bucketload of MEQ, and a load of tanks too.
Every.
Fething.
Turn.

Oh, twin-linked tesla destroyer too.
That's an Assault 4 S7 AP-. Each 6 on a to-hit means you get 2 extra hits.
With that many high strength wounds, you can kill pretty much anything.

As it happens my local 'cron player is too much of a gentleman to use more than one of these but if you spam them it's pretty much instant win.

Unbelievable! I'd like to think if I got the chance to write the new book for my favourite army I would show more restraint.

But you're not Matt Ward.

And for what it's worth, Necron Flyerspam is utterly broken, but it's hardly the only obscenely overpowered unit in the Necron book. The entire codex is broken.

Keep in mind, the codex was much less OP in 5th. Glancing to death was nearly impossible. Rapid Fire was far less useful, and you didn't need sixes to hit flyers.

Yes, but the Necrons were written with 6th edition in mind, just as the Orkz and Daemons were written for 5th.

It was actually quite funny, upon the release of the Necron codex, we were all thinking it was competently balanced with the rest of the top codecies, if it was somewhat gimmicky (even in 5th, I couldn't stand how overly convoluted it was, but that's another topic).
By time 6th edition popped its ugly head around the corner, we all realized what Matt Ward was getting at.

...not too happy about that.

Iv played one game a gainst flyer spam crons using my mono-nurgle daemons. Wasnt too bad a game really, I had nothing at all that could hurt the flyers so I just ignored them.

They did quite a bit of damage but the game was still a close one. I essentially lost because overwatch killed a plaguebearer making me fail my charge on the crons carrying the relic.