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 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
This should be sufficient to make you want to play Eldar:

Spoiler:

I like it, but Dawn of War (my friend asked me to try it) was my gateway into 40k (along with LotR) and Wraithlords made me love Eldar.

Here you go:

Eldrad
Avatar
2x 10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm, Serpents
2x 5 Pathfinders
8-10 Harlequins (kisses, Master, DJ, Shadowseer)
2x 5 Fire Dragons, Serpents
1 Wraithlord
3 Warwalkers (scatterlasers)

About 2000 pts.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Here you go:

Eldrad
Avatar
2x 10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm, Serpents
2x 5 Pathfinders
8-10 Harlequins (kisses, Master, DJ, Shadowseer)
2x 5 Fire Dragons, Serpents
1 Wraithlord
3 Warwalkers (scatterlasers)

About 2000 pts.

I'll try to whittle it down to 1.5k, but I like it!

What's the points difference between a Wraithlord and a War Walker?

For what it's worth, this is what I've always run:

Eldrad
Avatar
4x 10 Guardians Scatter Laser
10 Dire Avengers Shield/PW Defend/Bladestorm
6 Jetbikes 2 cannons
5 Wraithguard Warlock Enhance
2 Vypers 2 cannons
3 Walkers EML/Scatter
5 Reapers EML Fast/Crack
Wraithlord BL wraithsword

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
For what it's worth, this is what I've always run:

Eldrad
Avatar
4x 10 Guardians Scatter Laser
10 Dire Avengers Shield/PW Defend/Bladestorm
6 Jetbikes 2 cannons
5 Wraithguard Warlock Enhance
2 Vypers 2 cannons
3 Walkers EML/Scatter
5 Reapers EML Fast/Crack
Wraithlord BL wraithsword

Looks quite good but has almost no anti AV 14.

By the way, 3 Warwalkers with scatterlasers are 180 pts, while a Wraithlord with eml, bl comes out at 155 pts. If you drop one weapon, it will be about 120 pts.

It does struggle vs. AV14 but usually outnumbers armies with a lot of that. I deal with it with the WGuard/Avatar/Wlord.

Your second point is lost to me since neither of the builds you mentioned I use.

Using the above lists as templates, I think I'd rather go with 2-3 Wraithlords in my Heavy Support slots, seeing as they're Monstrous Creatures and thus can fire 2 weapons (even Heavy Weapons!) at once and are AP2 in CC!

Just pray you never face plasmaspam/meltaspam.

Or Eldar AP2 spam

Or Dark Eldar

MC's are rather easy to kill off unfortunately (as a rule..there are a couple of exceptions). Doubly so if the enemy has poison and lots of shots, or can spam high strength AP 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Other than that, Wraithlords are kindof awesome though They just never seem to live too long in my experience..

Other than that, Wraithlords are kindof awesome though They just never seem to live too long in my experience..

In fact, heavy weapons and particularly sniper rifles can end the life of a Wraithlord very quickly. I've seen this more than once.

They also aren't overly fond of Rokkit volleys, but then, what is (aside from the orks firing them )

I like to run my wraithlord with a pair of fire prisms. I find that most opponents will focus all their high strength weaponry on the fire prisms, leaving the wraithlord mostly alone. It really helps their survivability, allowing them to close with the enemy, and most units can barely even hurt one once you get into close combat. Another thing to consider is that they count as characters now which means that if they roll any 6s to hit you get to allocate the wound, allowing you to pick out hidden powerfists that can potentially wound or kill your wraithlord. They also cause fear, which while not a huge boost, definitely can have an impact on a combat if they fail their leadership. It's also easier to get them a cover save, although they're generally only a 5+.

Overall, Wraithlords have gotten a big boost from 6th edition,and they're quite cheap for everything you get with them. It's true that sometimes they get popped right away, particularly against really shooty armies like tau and guard, but you really get a lot for your points, not to mention how cool they are.

Well, sniper are more popular in the 6th ed than they were in the 5th.

I learned that snipers can kill a Wraithlord with ease. For this, you need to keep the WL in cover and use it as a counter-strike unit.

As OP seems to like ulthwe and Eldrad, I'd go with that.

Warwalkers, as some have stated, are awsome, especially when they outflank.
Wraithguard are awsome with ap2 shooting (ap2 just got more important... And it looks like they'll actually get a price DECREASE when they come out in finecast.
Artillery got a huge boost in 6th, counting all crew as t7. Get a couple of artillery units and place them behind. The mandatory aegis defence line with quadgun. Add a unit of dire avengers as close support back there aswell, they're EVIL with the ADL cover save, bladestorm, guide and doom...

And besides, they'll probably get their own versions of the DE flyers through white dwarf any month now...

Just my 2c.

Make sure you ALWAYS take a group of Firedragons w/ Exarch w/ Crack Shot and an Aegis Defence line.

Twin-linked Ballistic Skill 5 tankhunter with crackshot will take anything out of the sky.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
6 Jetbikes 2 cannons

That is what I would strongly suggest.
This is mostly 'control the points' game and those give you cheap, nice, fast and most importantly scoring units. I would think about adding Warlocks with Destructor (heavy flamer) and spear. He basically doubles their anti-horde and anti-tank.
That or :

 wuestenfux wrote:
2x 5 Pathfinders

I feel like Rangers are enough, though. Once again: cheap and scoring.

Many won't agree with me but I think triple Fire Prism a good thing. First of all - cheap. [I know I'm a cheapskate but cheap necessities allow for more expensive luxuries like harlequins] Second of all, expect your first prism go down to drop pods and lucky lascannon shot. Third, versatile and more importantly - the longest range in the whole codex. Something footdar lacks the most.

You could also try to form an alliance with our Dark Cousins. Something along:
Archon(?), 10 Kabalite warriors with splinter cannon/lance (maybe even twice), Ravager - total for 300ich points.
Archon can bodyguard Eldrad and with doom he will bring pain to MEQs, Warriors behind ADF for antitank or anti infantry, Ravager for long range antitank.

I'm thinking more of a double-triple MC threat with Wraithlords.

They seem like they'd generate a lot of fear and still be able to take a punch.

As to fortifications - I feel they hamper mobility, and they're an offshoot of vehicles, so no.

As to allies - I'm deliberately not taking DE allies as I find them creepy, and Tau are already used in my gaming group.

Dr. What wrote:
Not their dark cousins, I'm interested in Craftworld Eldar.

I'm looking for so me help on how to get started with them (besides the codex).

I'm thinking lots of units on foot, minimal vehicles (preferably none), possibly with Eldrad and/or a Farseer as an HQ.

Can anybody help me out?

I know you disregarded my suggestion already...

If you don't plan on taking any vehicles then you should consider fortifications.

A single Defence Line can encompass your entire Eldar army and provid them with 4+ cover.

Without some sort of protection you'll get chewed up. You could take Scorpions but no matter how hard you try an Eldar with a 3+ is not a space marine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dr. What wrote:
I'm thinking more of a double-triple MC threat with Wraithlords.

]They seem like they'd generate a lot of fear and still be able to take a punch.

Wraithlords aren't that treatening these days. Sure they're the only toughness 8 thing in the game but anything can wound them on 6's. Even grots. (well maybe not grots but you get the idea)

As to fortifications - I feel they hamper mobility, and they're an offshoot of vehicles, so no.

Not having vehicles will hamper mobility.

As to allies - I'm deliberately not taking DE allies as I find them creepy, and Tau are already used in my gaming group.

Um... you dont want to play DE because they're "creepy"? I don't see any logic in that. If little elves in leather creeps you out the world of 40k may not be for you .

He doesn't like them so won't spend time and money on the models. Makes sense to me.

I like the idea of a race struggling to keep keep purity, fending off their imminent ruin. Plus, Craftworld Eldar is more of a challenge to play.

I'm not a fan of spiky drug addicts. (No offrense meant to DE players, just my opinion.)

Allies are not a must have.

An ADL can be quite useful. It gives AA defense and a good cover save to the Pathfinders.

There's a small checklist that I try to follow when I make a list, just to be sure I cover all the bases:

1. Do I have something that can reliably hold an objective?
2. Do I have something that can reliably contest an objective?
3. Do I have something that can reliably take an objective?
4. Do I have something that can reliably take out vehicles at range?
5. Do I have something that can reliably take out vehicles in CC?
6. Do I have something that can reliably take out infantry at range?
7. Do I have something that can reliably take out infantry in CC?
8. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out flyers at range?
9. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out terminators (2+ savers) at range?
10. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out terminators (2+ savers) in CC?

In order to have a decent list, you'll want to fulfill as many criteria as possible, at least checking at range OR cc against all types of targets. Cause it just won't be a fun game for you if you have NOTHING that could hurt (or atleast stand a chance to hurt) a landraider. And you'll want SOMETHING with skyfire to take on flyers, 'cause shooting everything you've got at a flyer and hitting on 6+ ain't fun.
If you don't take an ADL with quad gun, you'll have to use an awfull amount of other guns, even to take down an AV10 flyer..

//Calle

 Jag_Calle wrote:
There's a small checklist that I try to follow when I make a list, just to be sure I cover all the bases:

1. Do I have something that can reliably hold an objective?
2. Do I have something that can reliably contest an objective?
3. Do I have something that can reliably take an objective?
4. Do I have something that can reliably take out vehicles at range?
5. Do I have something that can reliably take out vehicles in CC?
6. Do I have something that can reliably take out infantry at range?
7. Do I have something that can reliably take out infantry in CC?
8. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out flyers at range?
9. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out terminators (2+ savers) at range?
10. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out terminators (2+ savers) in CC?

In order to have a decent list, you'll want to fulfill as many criteria as possible, at least checking at range OR cc against all types of targets. Cause it just won't be a fun game for you if you have NOTHING that could hurt (or atleast stand a chance to hurt) a landraider. And you'll want SOMETHING with skyfire to take on flyers, 'cause shooting everything you've got at a flyer and hitting on 6+ ain't fun.
If you don't take an ADL with quad gun, you'll have to use an awfull amount of other guns, even to take down an AV10 flyer..

//Calle

This is a very good check list.

Constructing an army fulfilling most of these points can be a challenging task.

@wuestenfux: aye, especially if you try to avoid having a single unit fulfilling multiple roles. You'll want as many units filling each criteria.'cause if you obly bring one unit that can take on the enemy landraider, you can bet your rear that a mysterious forest will eat it turn one, so if possible, bring two

No, I can't. Eldar are terrible, as they are now.

They have terrible models, first of all. Literally all of the aspects look horrible, besides possibly fire dragons, which I'm not a fan of, but they have good details.They have too much finecast. Too expensive, and for the volume you need them in, it's hard to count on GW for QC. Tanks are ugly. The only way I've seen them look decent is with massive free-hand, or airbrushing.Overall, a very delicate army.

I do like wraithlords, and if jetbikes looked better, I would like them. The idea of eldar is very cool, but it would be best to wait a while for new models.

Captain Fantastic wrote:
No, I can't. Eldar are terrible, as they are now.

They have terrible models, first of all. Literally all of the aspects look horrible, besides possibly fire dragons, which I'm not a fan of, but they have good details.They have too much finecast. Too expensive, and for the volume you need them in, it's hard to count on GW for QC. Tanks are ugly. The only way I've seen them look decent is with massive free-hand, or airbrushing.Overall, a very delicate army.

I do like wraithlords, and if jetbikes looked better, I would like them. The idea of eldar is very cool, but it would be best to wait a while for new models.

Thank you for your input. Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, though I don't agree.

Finecast resin is actually pretty good. Yes, there are faults, but GW willingly replaces them. Also, if you're going to complain about the cost of the hobby, then maybe it's not for you?

I also find the tanks to be quite nice, as they're meant to be graceful and lithe, not lumbering behemoths.

@Jag_Calle - I use a simlilar checklist with my armies, and they are especially true for Eldar, as each aspect only fulfills one role effectively.

Oh, and also, the only flyer in my gaming group (4 of us at max) with a flyer is me, and it's my Dakkajet.

 Jag_Calle wrote:
There's a small checklist that I try to follow when I make a list, just to be sure I cover all the bases:

1. Do I have something that can reliably hold an objective?
2. Do I have something that can reliably contest an objective?
3. Do I have something that can reliably take an objective?
4. Do I have something that can reliably take out vehicles at range?
5. Do I have something that can reliably take out vehicles in CC?
6. Do I have something that can reliably take out infantry at range?
7. Do I have something that can reliably take out infantry in CC?
8. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out flyers at range?
9. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out terminators (2+ savers) at range?
10. Newly added: Do I have something that can reliably take out terminators (2+ savers) in CC?

In order to have a decent list, you'll want to fulfill as many criteria as possible, at least checking at range OR cc against all types of targets. Cause it just won't be a fun game for you if you have NOTHING that could hurt (or atleast stand a chance to hurt) a landraider. And you'll want SOMETHING with skyfire to take on flyers, 'cause shooting everything you've got at a flyer and hitting on 6+ ain't fun.
If you don't take an ADL with quad gun, you'll have to use an awfull amount of other guns, even to take down an AV10 flyer..

//Calle

Eldar - on foot especially - will be good for firepower but generally. The issue will be with stuff to take objectives.
Objective holders are troop choices so lets talk about that.

1. Dire Avengers - (SS/PW/Defend this is the best cost conscious troop. Pathfinders if you can prevent assault, these are the best. Wraithguard - costly but hard to take out. Guardians - cheap but also don't hold up well.
2. Dire Avengers good. Wraithguard good. Guardians - poor but cheap.
3. Through firepower DA can. Wraithguard can.
4. Wraithguard are great.
5. Guardians and wraithguard by means of their warlock. Otherwise look for an elite choice.
6. Dire Avengers - good (great if you can keep them at 18".
7. No Eldar troop choice is good in CC. Possible exception would be wraithguard but they will win through attrition not dominance.
8. Only choice is a ADL. It is awesome with an Autarch or Fire Dragon exarch firing at it.
9. Pathfinders with a doom add a guide and termies will die especially the CML launchers.
10. No troop choice and as a matter of fact, nothing that the eldar can field will meet this need.

From this list I would look at Dire Avengers with SS/PW/Defend Exarchs as my core. These cost 324 points for 2 of them
A pathfinder unit would be good to provide ranged kills and relative immunity. Cost 240.
A hybrid list would be wraithguard but this is going to cost you @400 points for 1 troop choice.
As an ADL is the only choice, it is necessary.
Another hybrid is the guardian list with an Avatar. The fearless bubble and the platforms make them great at short and long range but suck in the medium range category.

So lets go with the average core at 1850

1 Pathfinder 240
3 Dire Avenger 486
1 ADL with Quad Gun 100
1 5-Man Fire Dragon Exarch with Tank Hunter and Crack Shot. 112
Eldrad 210

So 1147 spent on the core. That leaves you 703 to focus your army or cover for the weaknesses you have left.
So this leaves you with needs for 4,5, 7 and 10 as holes.

Another fun one to experiment with is the warlock group with the farseer. It can cover the needs at 5 and 7 and can even do the job on 10 if you roll hot.
Otherwise the easy way to cover this is waveserpents with BL or EML. A unit of harlequins can also serve the HTH needs. Hopefully the eldar will come out with a flyer soon so you will have a way to cover the anti-air needs.

Ok, I've officially decided to go MechDar instead of FootDar as I'm still a Speed Freak at heart and it's carrying over into Eldar.

And I only play at 1500, btw.


So here's my new hypothetical list:

Eldrad
Farseer
10 DAs w/ Wave Serpent
10 DAs w/ Wave Serpent
5 Fire Dragons (w/ Exarch) w/ Wave Serpent
5 Fire Dragons (w/ Exarch) w/ Wave Serpent
Falcon
Falcon
Falcon

Thoughts?

As my collection grows, I'll probably get another squad of DAs and another Serpent as well.

I'd get two Prisms instead of two Falcons.

Here is my core:

Eldrad
10 DAs w/ Wave Serpent
10 DAs w/ Wave Serpent
5 Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent
5 Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent
2 Fire Prisms
3 Warwalkers w/ scatterlasers

Warwalkers could actually bring enugh shots to actually take on most flyers that are less than AV12, and could actually glance av12 to death with a little luck... And everybody knows that lady luck just *loves* when you tickle her a bit with guide