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The Void

Witch hunt because someone at the USADA wants to make his balls feel bigger probably.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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If there are ten riders; what are their names?
If there are blood samples that are positive for doping; why was the federal investigation ended?

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
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I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
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 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Witch hunt because someone at the USADA wants to make his balls feel bigger probably.


Or, you know, they are doing their job and investigating doping in the US.

 AustonT wrote:
If there are ten riders; what are their names?
If there are blood samples that are positive for doping; why was the federal investigation ended?


The federal investigation was to do with defrauding of the government, drug trafficking and money laundering. The charges from the USDA have come after they asked to look at evidence from that case.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:39:21


 
   
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The Great State of Texas

Foriegn devils invading our sovereignty. OMG the Lubbock judge was right! Call up the Minutemen! The French are coming! The French are coming!

Oh wait, its the French. Anyone have a 3 year old with a slingshot?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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far away from Battle Creek, Michigan

He road this stage in 1999 like he was on a fething moped



PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.

 
   
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Anime High School

The USADA reminds me of a few other national agencies with a penchant for being huge dicks, namely the ATF

Not surprising at all that a federal agency is being a PITA to a national hero (right? right?)just out of principle, based on loose evidence. I wish him the best of luck though.


 
   
Made in gb
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The point is they need to be harsh on the cycling because up until they did it was possibly the dirtiest sport on the planet for doping and drug cheats. If Lance Armstrong does get stripped of his titles then the riders they give it too will be one third of the way through the peleton.
   
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far away from Battle Creek, Michigan

Captain Fantastic wrote:
The USADA reminds me of a few other national agencies with a penchant for being huge dicks, namely the ATF

Not surprising at all that a federal agency is being a PITA to a national hero (right? right?)just out of principle, based on loose evidence. I wish him the best of luck though.


If it was "loose evidence" he'd contest it. Instead it's ten guys testifying against him, among other things. Would you be shocked to learn that the #2 in every Tour de France Armstrong won has also been implicated in doping? It was, and perhaps still is, the dirtiest professional sport other than MLB and the NFL.

PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.

 
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Glorioski wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
If there are ten riders; what are their names?
If there are blood samples that are positive for doping; why was the federal investigation ended?


The federal investigation was to do with defrauding of the government, drug trafficking and money laundering.

ROFL
New York Times wrote:Because the doping allegations involved activities outside the United States, the investigation focused on secondary events like the source of the money on possible drug purchases and whether Armstrong and the team defrauded the Postal Service when they promised to adhere to antidoping rules as part of the sponsorship agreement.


The charges from the USDA have come after they asked to look at evidence from that case.

And bs, the USADA provided the witnesses and then sat in on thier interviews.
New York Daily News wrote:The letter from USADA says more than 10 cyclists and other team employees gave first-hand accounts of the doping, but doesn’t name them — a fact that Armstrong’s attorney decried as “unconscionable.” Some of the witnesses told their stories to a grand jury that was investigating Armstrong for fraud until a federal prosecutor called the probe off earlier this year. Other witnesses were interviewed by federal agents at meetings that USADA’s CEO, Travis Tygart, sat in on.

Bids the question what planet you are on. But don't worry it's just a witch hunt if you're a Chinese swimmer.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Anime High School

Hmm, I had no idea. I tend to imagine the Tour de France, being rather infamous and sophisticated, would have nothing to do do with doping. I always assumed that in these international events, the athletes would reflect poorly on their countries if they doped.

People will cheat at anything they can't win though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:58:53



 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Captain Fantastic wrote:
If it was "loose evidence" he'd contest it.
Don't be stupid. He's contested it since 1999. But he's retiring and, after more than a decade of fighting never-ending accusations that have never been proven true, he just wants to, well, retire.

I don't know whether or not he doped-- the evidence doesn't seem to support it ,but whatever-- but this is not an admission of guilt. People who say it is are donkey-caves.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 15:00:28


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
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AustonT wrote:
Glorioski wrote:
AustonT wrote:If there are ten riders; what are their names?
If there are blood samples that are positive for doping; why was the federal investigation ended?


The federal investigation was to do with defrauding of the government, drug trafficking and money laundering.

ROFL
New York Times wrote:Because the doping allegations involved activities outside the United States, the investigation focused on secondary events like the source of the money on possible drug purchases and whether Armstrong and the team defrauded the Postal Service when they promised to adhere to antidoping rules as part of the sponsorship agreement.


I'm not sure what you're laughing about, you just quoted an article saying the same thing I said.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 15:05:26


 
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
 CT GAMER wrote:
Your thoughts on drug use and what is healthy for kids and young adults must be a bit different in Texas I guess...




Have you SEEN our football teams???


I've heard stories...

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 Glorioski wrote:
AustonT wrote:
Glorioski wrote:
AustonT wrote:If there are ten riders; what are their names?
If there are blood samples that are positive for doping; why was the federal investigation ended?


The federal investigation was to do with defrauding of the government, drug trafficking and money laundering.

ROFL
New York Times wrote:Because the doping allegations involved activities outside the United States, the investigation focused on secondary events like the source of the money on possible drug purchases and whether Armstrong and the team defrauded the Postal Service when they promised to adhere to antidoping rules as part of the sponsorship agreement.


I'm not sure what you're laughing about, you just quoted an article saying the same thing I said.

I'm laughing AT you. If you haven't made the connection yet the federal case was about doping, it used the legal tools available. As described in the text I posted. Here I'll rewrite it for you and if you don't get it then I frankly don't care.
Because the doping allegations involved activities outside the United States, the investigation focused on secondary events like the source of the money on possible drug purchases (DOPE) and whether Armstrong and the team defrauded the Postal Service (BY DOPING) when they promised to adhere to antidoping rules as part of the sponsorship agreement.
The federal case was about doping, if you want to continue to be obtuse I release you to it. You can also tell me about how Al Capone went to Alcatraz for tax fraud so his federal case wasn't about organized crime.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





 AustonT wrote:
 Glorioski wrote:
AustonT wrote:
Glorioski wrote:
AustonT wrote:If there are ten riders; what are their names?
If there are blood samples that are positive for doping; why was the federal investigation ended?


The federal investigation was to do with defrauding of the government, drug trafficking and money laundering.

ROFL
New York Times wrote:Because the doping allegations involved activities outside the United States, the investigation focused on secondary events like the source of the money on possible drug purchases and whether Armstrong and the team defrauded the Postal Service when they promised to adhere to antidoping rules as part of the sponsorship agreement.


I'm not sure what you're laughing about, you just quoted an article saying the same thing I said.

I'm laughing AT you. If you haven't made the connection yet the federal case was about doping, it used the legal tools available. As described in the text I posted. Here I'll rewrite it for you and if you don't get it then I frankly don't care.
Because the doping allegations involved activities outside the United States, the investigation focused on secondary events like the source of the money on possible drug purchases (DOPE) and whether Armstrong and the team defrauded the Postal Service (BY DOPING) when they promised to adhere to antidoping rules as part of the sponsorship agreement.
The federal case was about doping, if you want to continue to be obtuse I release you to it. You can also tell me about how Al Capone went to Alcatraz for tax fraud so his federal case wasn't about organized crime.


You should probably laugh at yourself. From the same article:

"The possible crimes being investigated included the defrauding of the government, drug trafficking, money laundering and conspiracy involving Armstrong and other top cyclists."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/sports/cycling/federal-prosecutors-drop-lance-armstrong-investigation.html

Also....

The Armstrong case had its genesis in doping allegations. But because sports doping is not in and of itself a federal crime, the case would have been built around fraud, conspiracy and other charges related to the violation of his team's contract with the U.S. Postal Service, which specifically prohibited doping.


from here...

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7539289/end-lance-armstrong-federal-investigation-raises-questions




Automatically Appended Next Post:
You'll notice when I respond to you my posts aren't laced with insults like yours. That's not because I'm a nice person necessarily. It's because when your talking to someone who doesn't know anything about what he is talking about they make enough of a fool out of themselves.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 15:54:59


 
   
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United States

 CT GAMER wrote:

As a parent, teacher, and someone active in youth sports I don't find cheating or drug use two things I want to teach kids, nor see in their role models.


Being able to cheat and get away with it is an important life skill.

 CT GAMER wrote:

Not to mention the slippery slope: if it is allowed in the pros then how long befor it is ok in college? IF it is ok in college then how long before some coach/parent thinks it is a great way to help his high school team make it to states, Little league next?, etc.


Ah, the slippery slope. A favorite of those on a moral crusade.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Good. The useless spanker.

Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:

jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
 
   
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-

Armstrong is innocent AFAIC.

Most importantly though, if he is stripped of his titles (and the experts are saying the USADA have no jurisdiction on this) then who gets the titles? Most of the guys that finished second to him are convicted drug cheats This is one big shut sandwich

LA is totally spot on when he talks about witnesses cutting deals in order to get off their own doping charges.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
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To the poster who asked who the 10 riders are:

Well, according to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/8298135/usada-said-friday-officially-banned-lance-armstrong-life-stripping-seven-tour-de-france-titles-charges-used-performance-enhancing-drugs-cycling-career), 2 of the 10 could very well be Floyd Landis, and Tyler Hamilton.... Both of whom are former team mates, who incidentally were BOTH found to be PED users (through positive tests and admissions)


I do find is somewhat funny that since he won the first TDF, they haven't found any good evidence to support or suggest that he was using PEDs of any type (including blood doping), and there are mountains of evidence of his workouts and diets to support exactly what he's been saying since at least '99
   
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Buffalo, NY


I personally dont think he was doping or really care because while an extremely amazing event of sheer endurance, the tour de france to me is incredibly boring. like how many people actually sit around and watch like 2 weeks of just dudes pedaling?
   
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 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

I personally dont think he was doping or really care because while an extremely amazing event of sheer endurance, the tour de france to me is incredibly boring. like how many people actually sit around and watch like 2 weeks of just dudes pedaling?


Right because that's all it is. It's not one of the most tactical sports on earth it's just a glorified exercycle session.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 23:13:14


 
   
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 dogma wrote:
 CT GAMER wrote:

As a parent, teacher, and someone active in youth sports I don't find cheating or drug use two things I want to teach kids, nor see in their role models.


Being able to cheat and get away with it is an important life skill.


I would never do, or endorse, such a thing.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos






 dogma wrote:
 CT GAMER wrote:

As a parent, teacher, and someone active in youth sports I don't find cheating or drug use two things I want to teach kids, nor see in their role models.


Being able to cheat and get away with it is an important life skill.

 CT GAMER wrote:

Not to mention the slippery slope: if it is allowed in the pros then how long befor it is ok in college? IF it is ok in college then how long before some coach/parent thinks it is a great way to help his high school team make it to states, Little league next?, etc.


Ah, the slippery slope. A favorite of those on a moral crusade.




Anyways...

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Beijing

Funny how they won't take the denials of a person with a clean set of drug tests at face value, but they do feel happy to accept the claims of people who *have* failed their drug tests. Even if he is guilty, what more can you reasonably ask of someone who can produce a clean set of results?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 23:35:03


 
   
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 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Funny how they won't take the denials of a person with a clean set of drug tests at face value, but they do feel happy to accept the claims of people who *have* failed their drug tests. Even if he is guilty, what more can you reasonably ask of someone who can produce a clean set of results?


That's the bit that gets me confused.

Basically the argument is : you beat guys who were using PED ergo you probably were using them despite no physical evidence. Also these guys who are sore at you and did get caught say you were using PED.

My gut guess is he was using PED and the others are pissed that he didn't get caught and they did, drag you down and all that. However, from a legal perspective there is no physical evidence and he passed the tests. Now the body are changing the goalposts to disqualify him.

Also on the subject of PED : who cares? Its ok to go into a hypobaric oxygen chamber to increase your O2 saturation but its not ok to harvest your red blood cells and re-inject them to have the same effect. Ultimately just let everyone do what they want, do not provide financial motivations in order to win. that way it won't be worth the shame.
That said I do think that currently if anyone is found using PED they should be life banned. Straight up, they are cheating, using drugs and basically defrauding the game they are competing in.
   
Made in gb
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The tests were inadequate, that has been proven. The only thing he can do is contest the charges, it would be the best thing for him to do whatever the result. It makes no sense for him to ignore the charges because he's sick of it when that action itself will mean he has to deal with the speculation for the rest of his life.

edit: seems his titles have officially been stripped now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/25 00:03:18


 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Buffalo, NY

 Glorioski wrote:
 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

I personally dont think he was doping or really care because while an extremely amazing event of sheer endurance, the tour de france to me is incredibly boring. like how many people actually sit around and watch like 2 weeks of just dudes pedaling?


Right because that's all it is. It's not one of the most tactical sports on earth it's just a glorified exercycle session.



If you're trying to say bike riding is one of the most tactical sports on earth I'm honestly confused. I understand theres plenty of thought about whos leading, how far they go per day, how much energy to expend, etc. but that still doesnt make weeks of guys riding bikes exciting television to watch. Im sure the finish line is exciting, but all the days before that just arent really that exciting to me. sorry. and i'm gonna guess tv ratings are gonna agree with me.

whether or not you like it if you want a tactical sport watch american football.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
 Glorioski wrote:
 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

I personally dont think he was doping or really care because while an extremely amazing event of sheer endurance, the tour de france to me is incredibly boring. like how many people actually sit around and watch like 2 weeks of just dudes pedaling?


Right because that's all it is. It's not one of the most tactical sports on earth it's just a glorified exercycle session.



If you're trying to say bike riding is one of the most tactical sports on earth I'm honestly confused. I understand theres plenty of thought about whos leading, how far they go per day, how much energy to expend, etc. but that still doesnt make weeks of guys riding bikes exciting television to watch. Im sure the finish line is exciting, but all the days before that just arent really that exciting to me. sorry. and i'm gonna guess tv ratings are gonna agree with me.

whether or not you like it if you want a tactical sport watch american football.


Honestly dude, it really depends on your level of involvement with the sport... I have never done a "grand tour" or Stage race, but I have great love of cycling and spend great amounts of time and money on the sport.. Saying that American Football is tactical is laughable... Although, if you want to be technical, Cycling is more Strategic than it is Tactical (and believe me there is a huge difference)

And excitement is all relative... I used to play football, but can no longer watch an entire game.. However, I CAN watch an entire TDF, Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Nice, etc. or an entire Rugby match, entire Baseball season, you get the idea... its all in what you like.
   
Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
 Glorioski wrote:
 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

I personally dont think he was doping or really care because while an extremely amazing event of sheer endurance, the tour de france to me is incredibly boring. like how many people actually sit around and watch like 2 weeks of just dudes pedaling?


Right because that's all it is. It's not one of the most tactical sports on earth it's just a glorified exercycle session.



If you're trying to say bike riding is one of the most tactical sports on earth I'm honestly confused. I understand theres plenty of thought about whos leading, how far they go per day, how much energy to expend, etc.


It sounds like your only knowledge of the TDF is the time trial stages.
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Buffalo, NY

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
 Glorioski wrote:
 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

I personally dont think he was doping or really care because while an extremely amazing event of sheer endurance, the tour de france to me is incredibly boring. like how many people actually sit around and watch like 2 weeks of just dudes pedaling?


Right because that's all it is. It's not one of the most tactical sports on earth it's just a glorified exercycle session.



If you're trying to say bike riding is one of the most tactical sports on earth I'm honestly confused. I understand theres plenty of thought about whos leading, how far they go per day, how much energy to expend, etc. but that still doesnt make weeks of guys riding bikes exciting television to watch. Im sure the finish line is exciting, but all the days before that just arent really that exciting to me. sorry. and i'm gonna guess tv ratings are gonna agree with me.

whether or not you like it if you want a tactical sport watch american football.


Honestly dude, it really depends on your level of involvement with the sport... I have never done a "grand tour" or Stage race, but I have great love of cycling and spend great amounts of time and money on the sport.. Saying that American Football is tactical is laughable... Although, if you want to be technical, Cycling is more Strategic than it is Tactical (and believe me there is a huge difference)

And excitement is all relative... I used to play football, but can no longer watch an entire game.. However, I CAN watch an entire TDF, Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Nice, etc. or an entire Rugby match, entire Baseball season, you get the idea... its all in what you like.



You dont use tactics in football? like what are all those plays then? just random guesses to throw the ball and hope? or is every player on the field assigned a specific role in every play?

Also I never said theres not a lot of thought in the tour de france. all i was saying is that other sports have WAY higher ratings. not saying this makes any sport better than the other, some are just less exciting to the majority of people. hence more exciting in general.

VIEWERSHIP: Based on the strength of the new format, with the first-ever live broadcast network coverage, this year’s Tour de France has produced viewership gains for the NBC Sports Group.

Through Sunday, July 15, after 15 live telecasts (13 on NBCSN, 2 on NBC) the Tour de France has averaged 409,000 viewers, up 29 percent from last year’s coverage on NBCSN (317,000).
The two live NBC broadcasts on July 7 and 8, the first time the race was ever live on a broadcast network, each drew over 1 million viewers.
The total audience for all Tour de France telecasts this year, including encores, is 17.1 million viewers, up 69 percent from last year’s 10.1 million viewers at this point in the Tour.
   
 
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