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 liturgies of blood wrote:
Not so, if there is a character in there you can take them one at a time, otherwise you could only shift the wound to one of the models with the same save. It's done on the squad not on the models that can be wounded.

Not if he has the same save as the other effected models, only after a wound is allocated to a model can you attempt a LOS! That wound can be from a group of saves that were rolled for and failed or it can come from the character being the closes model, and having a different save. At that point you can LOS! the save before rolling, otherwise its always after the saves have been rolled for and failed. No wound are allocated to any models ever, if all saves are made. If just one save is made and a non-character is the closest he is the only one to have a wound alloacted to him, and if you had made any LOS! rolls you will have broke a rule.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Not so, if there is a character in there you can take them one at a time, otherwise you could only shift the wound to one of the models with the same save. It's done on the squad not on the models that can be wounded.

Um, all Crypteks and Lords are characters. Currently anyway. that is the point of this discussion, they get LOS on every attack, and using fast rolling for like saves, still allow LOS for every model after saves on a 4+ to move the wound to a different guy, or do it one at a time and make so many rolls that you spend all game watching your opponent play musical wounds.


Needless to say it was the most unpleasant game I have ever played.

Look at mixed saves, read the first line. It doesn't offer any option nor does it allow for part of a unit.

Indeed, it says "if the target unit has multiple saving throws"....

It then goes on to say you don't use the wound allocation stated above that, you use the one below.

Megatrons2nd - Lords and crypteks that remain as a royal court will "always" be a mixed save unit and will "never" get to use LoS! after taking armor saves (after re-reading the rules, this holds for AP 2/1 weapons as well, and any others that may 'never allow an armor save').

*removed stupidity*

Well you have to use your best save so unless it's an ap1,2,3 weapon the marines won't be using a cover save.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Well you have to use your best save so unless it's an ap1,2,3 weapon the marines won't be using a cover save.

Mm, ya that's true. I suppose it's really just "inherent" saving throws that matter, for the most part. Sorry, disregard that comment previously then.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Look at mixed saves, read the first line. It doesn't offer any option nor does it allow for part of a unit.

Look at fast rolling, you count the models till you hit a different save and roll that number of dice, any that fail than get to LOS as they are all characters. As no wounds are allocated until after the saves are done.


Or of course you can make 40 die rolls to deal with 20 wounds.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Look at mixed saves, read the first line. It doesn't offer any option nor does it allow for part of a unit.

Look at fast rolling, you count the models till you hit a different save and roll that number of dice, any that fail than get to LOS as they are all characters. As no wounds are allocated until after the saves are done.


Or of course you can make 40 die rolls to deal with 20 wounds.

New FAQ changes it, now if the unit contains at least one character you follow mixed saves.

Edit.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Look at mixed saves, read the first line. It doesn't offer any option nor does it allow for part of a unit.

Look at fast rolling, you count the models till you hit a different save and roll that number of dice, any that fail than get to LOS as they are all characters. As no wounds are allocated until after the saves are done.


Or of course you can make 40 die rolls to deal with 20 wounds.

New FAQ changes it, now if the unit contains at least one character you follow mixed saves.

Following the mixed saves rules, meant nothing as the Fast Dice section of page 15 clarified that you can roll armor saves by groups of best saves even in mixed armour units. However, the new FAQ has removed the "(or unsaved)" portion of the LOS! rules and cleared this all character unit cheesiness up completely, not to mention the removal of WG, Paladin and Ork Nob character units entirely.