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Is it allowed to have both crypteks and lords in a single royal court?

Yep...

Thanks, that makes everything much easier.

Just remember not when you are attaching them to squads, unless they come from 2 separate courts.

...To a maximum of 5 of each. Also there are some restrictions on what wargear the Crypteks in that royal court can take, please refer to page 90 of your necron codex for the specific details.

Does a royal court of both lords and crypteks (that has not been split) also consist of a single unit?

Yes.

If you want to you can field a single 10 model unit of 5 'teks and 5 Lords.

And until they FAQ away the character part of they're rules for a mass squad, a nightmare to play against. They made Tau Shas'vre in a bodyguard squad not characters, but let these guys stay characters, the number of rolls is maddening.

Same as for WG, I think chosen might be the same in the next codex. So we shall see.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
And until they FAQ away the character part of they're rules for a mass squad, a nightmare to play against. They made Tau Shas'vre in a bodyguard squad not characters, but let these guys stay characters, the number of rolls is maddening.

Why shouldn't they be characters? They're technically an HQ choice and they have the option to be upgrade characters for squads. Far as I know, pretty much every HQ choice is a character and the majority of them have the IC rule as well. Do you just not want them to be characters because of the precision shots stuff?

Keep in mind, a full squad of 10 non-upgraded court members isn't cheap and at the points they cost (300) for ten with no upgrades are very easy to take out and have an extremely short range and no transport options.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
And until they FAQ away the character part of they're rules for a mass squad, a nightmare to play against. They made Tau Shas'vre in a bodyguard squad not characters, but let these guys stay characters, the number of rolls is maddening.

Why shouldn't they be characters? They're technically an HQ choice and they have the option to be upgrade characters for squads. Far as I know, pretty much every HQ choice is a character and the majority of them have the IC rule as well. Do you just not want them to be characters because of the precision shots stuff?

Keep in mind, a full squad of 10 non-upgraded court members isn't cheap and at the points they cost (300) for ten with no upgrades are very easy to take out and have an extremely short range and no transport options.

It shouldn't be allowed because look out sir is the new chessie wound allocation and on all character squads you can really abuse the rules. IMO, it is not nearly as bad for Necrons as irbid for GK Paladin squads or Ork Nob bikers, but it probably is the only squad that can have 8 3+ inv saves and 7 2+ armour saves.

And no transport options,VOD my friend or highjack a Ghost Ark.

As I said, at their BASE COST. Oh, ya, I keep forgetting that ghost arks are viable for them. Ya, the VoD is nice but it could screw you as well, plus you can't assault when you use it. Either way, that's still another 125 points or 30 points before any other upgrades. So already, before HQ and troop choices, you're looking at close to 1/3 of your army in a typical game (of 1500, most common point size played I believe).

And why would you bother to look out sir in a squad of all characters anyway? If you're smart, the 3+ saves are in front and the 4+ are in back already.

Ok, so it might be able to do that (and now you're factoring in two HQ choices, bringing the cost up astronomically higher) with the saves but do you know how expensive that wargear is?

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion as to pull the kinds of shenanigans you think you can pull would cost most likely your ENTIRE army points allowance.

*Edit*
Oh, also remember that they're only LoS! on a 4+ anyway, so it's still a 50/50 that it ever matters. Better than no chance, sure, but not as good as the IC LoS!.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
It shouldn't be allowed because look out sir is the new chessie wound allocation and on all character squads you can really abuse the rules. IMO, it is not nearly as bad for Necrons as irbid for GK Paladin squads or Ork Nob bikers, but it probably is the only squad that can have 8 3+ inv saves and 7 2+ armour saves.

And no transport options,VOD my friend or highjack a Ghost Ark.

Eh have you heard of terminators? WG terminators are all characters, it is allowed so suck it up. There are only a few all character squads now but I think retinues and command squads will all be going that way.

 Kevin949 wrote:
As I said, at their BASE COST. Oh, ya, I keep forgetting that ghost arks are viable for them. Ya, the VoD is nice but it could screw you as well, plus you can't assault when you use it. Either way, that's still another 125 points or 30 points before any other upgrades. So already, before HQ and troop choices, you're looking at close to 1/3 of your army in a typical game (of 1500, most common point size played I believe).

And why would you bother to look out sir in a squad of all characters anyway? If you're smart, the 3+ saves are in front and the 4+ are in back already.

Ok, so it might be able to do that (and now you're factoring in two HQ choices, bringing the cost up astronomically higher) with the saves but do you know how expensive that wargear is?

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion as to pull the kinds of shenanigans you think you can pull would cost most likely your ENTIRE army points allowance.

*Edit*
Oh, also remember that they're only LoS! on a 4+ anyway, so it's still a 50/50 that it ever matters. Better than no chance, sure, but not as good as the IC LoS!.

Um you look out sir onto the crypteks when you roll a 1 or 2 on you 2+/3++ save lords.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
As I said, at their BASE COST. Oh, ya, I keep forgetting that ghost arks are viable for them. Ya, the VoD is nice but it could screw you as well, plus you can't assault when you use it. Either way, that's still another 125 points or 30 points before any other upgrades. So already, before HQ and troop choices, you're looking at close to 1/3 of your army in a typical game (of 1500, most common point size played I believe).

And why would you bother to look out sir in a squad of all characters anyway? If you're smart, the 3+ saves are in front and the 4+ are in back already.

Ok, so it might be able to do that (and now you're factoring in two HQ choices, bringing the cost up astronomically higher) with the saves but do you know how expensive that wargear is?

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion as to pull the kinds of shenanigans you think you can pull would cost most likely your ENTIRE army points allowance.

*Edit*
Oh, also remember that they're only LoS! on a 4+ anyway, so it's still a 50/50 that it ever matters. Better than no chance, sure, but not as good as the IC LoS!.

Um you look out sir onto the crypteks when you roll a 1 or 2 on you 2+/3++ save lords.

LoS should be allocated on the hit, before the save, not after.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
As I said, at their BASE COST. Oh, ya, I keep forgetting that ghost arks are viable for them. Ya, the VoD is nice but it could screw you as well, plus you can't assault when you use it. Either way, that's still another 125 points or 30 points before any other upgrades. So already, before HQ and troop choices, you're looking at close to 1/3 of your army in a typical game (of 1500, most common point size played I believe).

And why would you bother to look out sir in a squad of all characters anyway? If you're smart, the 3+ saves are in front and the 4+ are in back already.

Ok, so it might be able to do that (and now you're factoring in two HQ choices, bringing the cost up astronomically higher) with the saves but do you know how expensive that wargear is?

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion as to pull the kinds of shenanigans you think you can pull would cost most likely your ENTIRE army points allowance.

*Edit*
Oh, also remember that they're only LoS! on a 4+ anyway, so it's still a 50/50 that it ever matters. Better than no chance, sure, but not as good as the IC LoS!.

Um you look out sir onto the crypteks when you roll a 1 or 2 on you 2+/3++ save lords.

What? No, LoS! is a 4+ for characters and 2+ for Characters with the IC rule. Neither Lords nor Crypteks have the IC rule and if you have an IC in their unit and you're taking LoS! for your IC onto your lords/crypteks then you don't have a very survivable IC. Also, keep in mind the squad is a mixed save squad at that point as well so you're either taking your 2+ armor or 3++ invul (if available) on your Overlord/D.Lord or you're taking a 4+ (or 3++ if you took the gear for the one cryptek) if you get it or one of the saves on the lords (2+, 3+, or 3++ depending on your loadout). It really equals out in the end and putting LoS! wounds on a cryptek is probably...not the best idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
It shouldn't be allowed because look out sir is the new chessie wound allocation and on all character squads you can really abuse the rules. IMO, it is not nearly as bad for Necrons as irbid for GK Paladin squads or Ork Nob bikers, but it probably is the only squad that can have 8 3+ inv saves and 7 2+ armour saves.

And no transport options,VOD my friend or highjack a Ghost Ark.

Eh have you heard of terminators? WG terminators are all characters, it is allowed so suck it up. There are only a few all character squads now but I think retinues and command squads will all be going that way.

There's a GK terminator squad that is all characters too.

Yes I understand that. The problem is the only unit that can't abuse the Look Out Sir rule(only having 3 models) has it FAQ'd away. That Tau Command unit has 3 models, 8 wounds, and no independent character as the Shas'O looses the independent character rule if the bodyguard are chosen. It also comes in at over 300 points(unless you choose crap gear). All the saves are the same 3+ with the option for a 4+ invulnerable save and an option for 1 guy with a 2+ save that reduces your mobility. any S8 weapon insta gibs a model as compared to insta gibs on a 1 wound model that you can have 10 of. It is weird that you remove the "character" rule for such a unit yet leave it with units that can abuse the character rule as bad as the Necron Royal court, and the others that are mentioned.

Just because it looses the IC rule does not mean it stops being a character.

Independent Character is a RULE, not a unit type. CHARACTER is a unit type. Characters with the IC rule can LoS! on a 2+. Not all characters have the IC rule but all Models with the IC rule ARE characters. Just because Shas'O lost the RULE does not mean it is not a Character. Also, I'd be interested to hear the actual wording in the Tau book regarding it, because Shas'O might still LoS! on a 2+.

If you are complaining about the meta-game then my answer is buy a new army. If you want to win at all costs then you go with the army of the day. Though you could take a necrons allied if you don't want a full army.

If you are complaining that the most powerful unit of shooting models, that can keep out of sight and still tear apart MEQ with ease, can assault move after deepstriking and can shoot two guns at once aren't broken then I am sorry for you, truely.

The wording is "Unless accompanied by a Bodyguard, the commander is an independent character....." and then goes into the bit explaining about as depicted in the core rules and what not. He can do it on a 4+, the Shas'vre on the other hand lose the ability completely. They are character upgrades for squads, but if taken as the bodyguard they are no longer characters, per the FAQ.

@blood: They are hardly the most powerful shooting unit in the game. They are useful, but they die Far easier than similarly pointed command units, especially when they are the only one that loses the "character" benefits while other armies have their squad upgrade characters that can form a unit can keep them. That squad of Necrons will eat the squad of suits long before it can do enough damage to kill them. That squad of Necrons took out nearly a quarter of my Dark Eldar army on it's own do to the LOS shenanigans it can play. Closest model eats an AP2 gun take LOS and move it to the invuln save guy, anything else leave it there, and then move it if he fails since he is a character amongst other models with the same save targeted first. It is entirely to easy to game away casualties with that squad.

K3 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
As I said, at their BASE COST. Oh, ya, I keep forgetting that ghost arks are viable for them. Ya, the VoD is nice but it could screw you as well, plus you can't assault when you use it. Either way, that's still another 125 points or 30 points before any other upgrades. So already, before HQ and troop choices, you're looking at close to 1/3 of your army in a typical game (of 1500, most common point size played I believe).

And why would you bother to look out sir in a squad of all characters anyway? If you're smart, the 3+ saves are in front and the 4+ are in back already.

Ok, so it might be able to do that (and now you're factoring in two HQ choices, bringing the cost up astronomically higher) with the saves but do you know how expensive that wargear is?

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion as to pull the kinds of shenanigans you think you can pull would cost most likely your ENTIRE army points allowance.

*Edit*
Oh, also remember that they're only LoS! on a 4+ anyway, so it's still a 50/50 that it ever matters. Better than no chance, sure, but not as good as the IC LoS!.

Um you look out sir onto the crypteks when you roll a 1 or 2 on you 2+/3++ save lords.

LoS should be allocated on the hit, before the save, not after.

Umm. no not if you have a wound pool of all the same save. You make your saves and any wounds that go through go to the nearest model in the wound pool. If that wound would go to a character, it can be LOS! The cheesie RC we are talking about here has 5(or more) models all with 2+/3++ saves, that is a large potential wound pool all of which, when saves fail, can be LOS! It would be stupid to be running your Crypteks at the front, they aren't that survivable but taking cheap Crypteks with redundant weapons, or just stripped down are excellent for soaking up and able to come back on a 4+ thanks to the Orb or orbs one or more of your lords is caring.

In a court with crypteks and lords you'll never have a wound pool with the same saves unless you took no invul saves and you're getting hit by AP 3 or 2.

 Kevin949 wrote:
In a court with crypteks and lords you'll never have a wound pool with the same saves unless you took no invul saves and you're getting hit by AP 3 or 2.

Yes you will when hit by 7 weapons or less that wound and from direction in which your Lords are the nearest models. Only when 8 wounds bleed over into your Crypteks, would you LOS! prior to attempting saves. At that point you decide to take your chances with your Lord Saves, or LOS! them to your Crypteks. Also come to think of this, should none of those wounds cause Instant Death, you can actually have a wound pool of 11, due to taking into account Overlord's 3 wounds each with two Overlords in the Squad.

 Kevin949 wrote:
In a court with crypteks and lords you'll never have a wound pool with the same saves unless you took no invul saves and you're getting hit by AP 3 or 2.

Please explain. The way I read it you always use the best available save. Thus when you hit a unit that has 2 saves available you would only count the saves being used, not what is available. Otherwise guys in cover would screw up your wounds allocation even though you are using the 3+ for all your marines, or the cover gives you the 5+ in addition to the 5+ you already have. It is the same roll regardless.

I'm not factoring in overlords on this. Anyway, I think you're doing it wrong...the mixed saves are taken into account before allocating wounds so if you have mixed saves "at all" you follow that process.

 Kevin949 wrote:
I'm not factoring in overlords on this. Anyway, I think you're doing it wrong...the mixed saves are taken into account before allocating wounds so if you have mixed saves "at all" you follow that process.

Not if there is no potential to wound them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use this:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
I'm not factoring in overlords on this. Anyway, I think you're doing it wrong...the mixed saves are taken into account before allocating wounds so if you have mixed saves "at all" you follow that process.

Not if there is no potential to wound them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use this:

What do you mean? If there is no potential to wound then there is no "to wound" roll, otherwise it has the potential to wound, when the wound is allocated to a character then you can LOS. Simple as. You guys are making the process more complicated.

If you hit a squad 5 times and the 5 closest models all have the same saves you have no potential to wound any other models in the squad, except by sending a LOS! wound there way after one of the first 5 fails it.

Not so, if there is a character in there you can take them one at a time, otherwise you could only shift the wound to one of the models with the same save. It's done on the squad not on the models that can be wounded.

 Kevin949 wrote:
I'm not factoring in overlords on this. Anyway, I think you're doing it wrong...the mixed saves are taken into account before allocating wounds so if you have mixed saves "at all" you follow that process.

I think you are making it more complex/time consuming. Using the Tau Battlesuits: 2 guys with 2 wounds and a 3+ save; 1 with 4 wounds a 3+ save, and a 4+ invuln save. If hit with 30 shots from a guard blob platoon you are saying I would roll 4 rolls at a time until the 2 regular guys are dead, and then go to the commander. It would be far easier to roll all 30 rolls and then remove from there, as the AP does not pierce the armor of anyone. Although doing it your way might keep 1 additional wound from passing over to the commander. Overall doing it that way does very little to help for the extra time involved in the rolls.