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Seems like most of the codex is either stellar or crap. A BT army built with the stellar only is a downright vicious top tier army, but the lack of multiple competitive builds makes BT a potentially dull army to start.

Nah, the stellar units aren't the troops, so at best we'll get a decent enough list that can get us by, but which at the same time plays completely contrary to what our fluff is about.

J99Pwrangler wrote:
Thats a very good point with the bikes. But wouldnt you want AAC with pods/ assault units? Your Abhor would only effect your bike unit at the "scouting phase" of the unit. So its a cheaper VOW, but only that one unit would benefit form it.

No, you want it on the units that will do the most damage...that would be the bikes + characters. There is also always the possibility of a squad of assault marines as well.

J99Pwrangler wrote:
Thats a very good point with the bikes. But wouldnt you want AAC with pods/ assault units? Your Abhor would only effect your bike unit at the "scouting phase" of the unit. So its a cheaper VOW, but only that one unit would benefit form it.

No, you want it on the units that will do the most damage...that would be the bikes + characters. There is also always the possibility of a squad of assault marines as well

I just dont see an extra 6" of movement on a bike squad, and maybe an assault squad worth it when your running drop pod assault. Although if your dropping in, you may not get the carge in for the assault, and negate your +2 rage attack at the same time. Its a dobule edge sword imo.

I am just really mixed on how to run my army lately, being let down a lot by my Templars. I drop in, get spanked, use my black tide, have the "long table edge deploymnet setup". Just seems like I try mixing it up, and never get anywhere.

Try 2 Land Raiders with CQB crusaders. Roll up 12 and pop smoke. then you're in assault range. Works pretty well.

I just dont see an extra 6" of movement on a bike squad, and maybe an assault squad worth it when your running drop pod assault.

Well, look at the deployment types, and the distance covered. A free D6" movement + game turn move can already put you into a position to assault on the first turn if the opponent isn't paying attention. Secondly, the drop pod elements are support elements, but also there to block off any portions of the opponents army that you don't want to deal with right away. You can use the DP elements to cut the army in half or into manageable parts for your bikes. Or, your opponent castles in response to the DP threat...and your bikes basically use their speed to box them in so they now have to fight essentially a breakout mission. Your DP shooting elements target transports and tanks that may cause problems for your bikes. Heck, just being able to gain a free 6" then move and turbo gives your bikes essentially a 42" move. Plenty to move heavy to a flank and fight the opponent in his DZ.

I will have to start running bikes more often. The last few times I ran mine, they were the first kill point off the table, they rarely get a shot off, even when moving flat out at 36".

Maybe I just have bad luck when playing? lol

J99Pwrangler wrote:
I will have to start running bikes more often. The last few times I ran mine, they were the first kill point off the table, they rarely get a shot off, even when moving flat out at 36".

Maybe I just have bad luck when playing? lol

Dunno. Maybe use the pod units to shield your bikes until they get into a good position? Not sure. Do some batreps and maybe we can analyze where you may have gone wrong? Also, one bike squad won't cut it. You may need 2.

As black templars have an incredible high chance of becoming my second army, I wonder what the different crusader squad load-out exactly look like. Minimal squads? Maxed squads? Is there a magic number? Is there ever a point in taking neophytes, if yes, how many?

Neophytes are decent becasue they, essentialy, give you extra wounds if you've got a few points left over. They hit just as hard as their masters in CC, but only cost 2/3 of the Marines. If you have some points left over you can always add some to, for example, a Lasplas squad to give them some extra wounds.

As for the most common loadouts, I'd say it's:

Meltafist:
5 Initiates, 3 with BP/CCW, 1 with Meltagun, 1 with Power Fist - MSU unit useful in Razorbacks or Drop Pods.

10 Initiates, 8 with BP/CCW, 1 with Meltagun, 1 with Power Fist - same as above except no longer MSU. You'd obviously run it in a Rhino instead of a Razorback. These are actually pretty decent in Drop Pods, as people generally underestimate the effort it takes to kill 10 MEQ.

7 Initates, 3 Neophytes, BP/CCW Meltagun Powerfist - same as above except cheaper due to swapping out 3 Marines for Scouts.

MeltaPW:
More or less the same configurations as Meltafist-squads except you replace the Power Fist with a Power Weapon, probably an Axe. Considering that Power Fists are just 5 points more expensive than Power Weapons for us Templars, however, I'd rather take the Fist.

Lasplas:
5 Initiates, 3 Bolter, 1 Lascannon, 1 Plasma Gun - Ye olde Lasplas-squad. Place on objective, point at enemy, shoot. Nerfed by the fact that they have to run off no matter what if someone gets shot.

5 Initiates, 3 Bolter, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Plasma Gun - The "missplas" squad, for when you positively, absolutely have to save 5 points somewhere.

Any of the above may add Neophytes after taste to soak wounds, although if you do it to a missplas-squad you're being silly as you could just make it a Lasplas-squad.

Double-melta:
5 Initiates, 3 Bolter, 1 Multi-melta, 1 Meltagun - Put in a Rhino and you have the "meltabunker". Drive it up and pop smoke first turn, hope to live and then threaten a large area with burny, melta-y death. Don't bother with Neophytes, keep it cheap.


With all this said, I never add Neophytes anywhere, I just can't be bothered and I'd rather have the points for something else.

Thanks a lot

So, have any of you tried the Biker-MoS yet? I've never use that configuration yet, so tonight I might want to give it a try.


MoS: Rosarius, Crozius, Crusader Seals, 2 x Plasma Pistols, AA, Bionics, Bike, Frag, Meltabombs, Terminator Honours (216pts).


Maybe I'll also take a full complement of bike squad as well to max the effect of plasma & multi-melta shots.


P.S: This is a bit of topic, but 1 of my opponent is using Shining Spears. Do the laser lances be considered as extraordinary power weapon i.e AP3 regardless when charging or being charged? I usually just shoot them to bits with my termies, but I need to know in advance just in case my BT boys/bikers managed to reach them in combat.

Thanks in advance.

 MarshallDin wrote:
So, have any of you tried the Biker-MoS yet? I've never use that configuration yet, so tonight I might want to give it a try.


MoS: Rosarius, Crozius, Crusader Seals, 2 x Plasma Pistols, AA, Bionics, Bike, Frag, Meltabombs, Terminator Honours (216pts).


Maybe I'll also take a full complement of bike squad as well to max the effect of plasma & multi-melta shots.


P.S: This is a bit of topic, but 1 of my opponent is using Shining Spears. Do the laser lances be considered as extraordinary power weapon i.e AP3 regardless when charging or being charged? I usually just shoot them to bits with my termies, but I need to know in advance just in case my BT boys/bikers managed to reach them in combat.

Thanks in advance.

they are AP3 S6 when THEY charge. If you get the charge, they are just close combat weapons.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Nah, the stellar units aren't the troops, so at best we'll get a decent enough list that can get us by, but which at the same time plays completely contrary to what our fluff is about.

That is the sad truth indeed...