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2012/09/06 17:13:28
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
Alright, so I've noticed that there's almost no tactics discussions for Black Templars anywhere on the forum. There's a thread every now and then, but by and large it's pretty dead. With that in mind, I've decided to write this sort-of-tactica to promote discussion about the Black Templars.
Without further ado, we're off (wall of text incoming):
HQ choices
The Emperor's Champion
Spoiler:
As anyone with a Black Templars Codex should be aware, this guy is mandatory from 750 points upwards. I'll start by analyzing the Champion as a unit, moving on to the Vows once that is done. Let's look at the gear first:
The Armour of Faith gives the Champion a 2+ armour save, which these days means he's safe from most power weapons. Power Axes and Power Fists obviously still ignore his armour though. The Black Sword is a one-handed Relic Blade, which together with his pistol means the Champion has a respectable 3 attacks base. Frag grenades standard, unlike everyone else in the Codex, is nice.
True to the fluff, the Emperor's Champion has to accept any challenges, as well as always issue challenges if he can. A fluffy rule that is really only a drawback; you always have the option of challenging, so this just removes your ability to decline, or, more crucially, accept the challenge with someone else.
As for the role of the Emperor's Champion, countrary to what the fluff would suggest, I'd keep him away from the enemy Warlord or big, nastybad creatures. With only AP3, 2 wounds and a 4++ he'll be dead before you can say "Dallas salad" backwards. Where he excels, however, is in bullying MEQ units. Tactical Squads, Grey Hunters (without Wolf Guard in TDA obviously), BA Assault Squads, Devastators, Long Fangs, even Purifiers and Strike Squads, are all pretty vulnerable to this guy. Either their sergeant accepts the challenge, in which case they suffer a sudden case of death, or they decline, letting the Champ go to town ripping their friends apart without having to fear the Power Fist/Axe that is usually on the Sergeant (well, not on Long Fangs or Devestators, but you get the point!). In other words, as long as you don't send your Champion after anything dangerous he should be just fine.
Now, for the Vows:
Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds: Army-wide Rage (except for Neophytes) is not as good as the Preferred Enemy we got during 5th, but it's not too shabby. The bad part compared to having Preferred Enemy is, obviously, that it only works on the turn you charge. The turn you charge as in only during your turn, only if you charged that turn. No benefits second turn of a combat or if you're charged. Despite these disadvantages, this is one of two Vows that I'd actually consider taking.
Uphold the Honour of the Emperor: Permanent 6++ save to everyone at the expense of cover saves. Don't bother. Just no. Don't.
Suffer not the Unclean to Live: +1S in exchange for -1I. This'll make you strike after other MEQ and things that are I4, i.e. most units you'd want the buff against anyway. Don't bother.
Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch: The other Vow that's worth considering. Clocking in at 30 points cheaper than AAC, this Vow not only provides psychic defense, but also negates the Infiltrate USR.
Castellans/Marshals
Spoiler:
The title is a bit misleading; don't bother taking a Castellan. If you're going to run with a Commander, run a Marshal. This guy more or less starts of as a blank slate: he has his Power Armour and Crusader Seals, but that's it. His special rule, Rites of Battle, is stellar. Giving everyone in the army Ld10 is a pretty big deal when you take Morale checks from every casualty.
Wargear-wise, Terminator or Artificier Armour is more or less mandatory, as is a Storm Shield. The Adamantine Mantle, while monstrously expensive, lets your Marshal wield a Power Fist, Thunder Hammer or Chainfist without fear of getting his brains smashed in by the first random sergeant with a Power Fist. Note that you're only allowed to take two weapons from the armoury, of which the Storm Shield is one, which means you can't give your Marshal Lightning Claws if you want to have both an invulnerable save (other than the 5++ from TDA) and an Adamantine Mantle.
Many people like running their Marshal in a Land Raider with an escort of TH/SS Terminators. I personally feel that this is a massive waste; the Terminators don't need your Marshal to help them stomp all over enemies. Put your Marshal somewhere else so that you have multiple threats instead of just one.
Reclusiarchs/Masters of Sanctity
Spoiler:
Again, as with the Marshal vs. Castellan, go Master of Sanctity or go home. The MoS has a few advantages over the Marshal, notably the fact that he starts with a 4++, which lets him get double Lightning Claws and an Adamantine Mantle and still have a decent invulnerable save. He also starts with a Power Maul. The drawback, though, is that a Marshal with a Storm Shield and a Power Maul costs exactly the same as a MoS, but with a better invulnerable save. Sure, he doesn't get an extra attack since he can't get a pistol, but I'd say the 3++ is more than enough compensation.
Rules-wise, this guy is more of a localized buffer than a Marshal. You don't get the Ld10 across the board, but you get rerolls to hit on the turn you charge (with the same problems as laid out in AAC above...) and you make your squad fearless, guaranteeing that you will get to advance instead of running away with Righteous Zeal. A nasty surprise you can use is to use, seeing as Chaplains let you Zeal towards any enemy, is to use Righteous Zeal in a Chaplain's squad to run away from an enemy, for example to make sure you get the charge and not him.
Wargear-wise it's pretty much the same story here as with the Marshal; thanks to the wonder that is the Adamantine Mantle Thunder Hammers and Chainfists are pretty good on this guy as well. If you're not running him as your Warlord (and thus not giving him your Adamantine Mantle) I'd probably just run him with Artificier Armour and a Bolt Pistol and call it a day.
Terminator Command Squads
Spoiler:
Ah, one of the two squads that lets us take 7 HQ choices (the other being the "normal" Command Squad). These guys are more or less the same as the Terminators in the Elite section, except there's one less member and a Sargeant with a PW instead of a PF (funnily enough the Sergeant isn't a Character...). They require you to have an HQ Choice in Terminator Armour, but chances are that's the case anyway. The fact that you have to have your HQ stay with these guys until they die means they're more suited to get up close with the enemy rather than going for dual Cyclone Missile Launchers. Heavy Flamers, while not bad per se, are simply inferior to Assault Cannons, especially when you get Tank Hunters. One important difference to the Terminators of the Elite slot is that the Sergeant can take weapons from the armoury, which means you can buy him a combi-weapon. As I'll get to later in the part about Drop Pods, I absolutely think that this unit makes for an excellent candidate to have a Drop Pod. As a closing statement: don't buy Furious Charge on these guys. Never. Ever.
Command Squads
Spoiler:
Pretty much the same deal as with the Terminator Command Squad, these guys let you take a Sword Brethren squad (with a few differences) as an HQ choice instead of as an Elites choice. Unfortunately, like Sword Brethren and despite their massive customization potential, this unit is utter balls-worthless for anything short of Drop Podding in and double-meltagunning something, which unfortunately still requires you to have an HQ in the squad, which means it's no longer useful as a suicide meltasquad. In order to make these guys useful you have to spend so many points that you may as well save yourself the hassle and go for TH/SS Terminators.
High Marshal Helbrecht
Spoiler:
The Man, the Myth, the Legend. The Chapter Master of the Black Templars isn't really a bad special character per se. Equipping a Marshal to the same standard would cost around the same as buying Helbrecht, and that's not counting the special rule of his sword. With 4 wounds and a potential 9 (!) attacks on the charge, Helbrecht makes short work of MEQ enemies and his 4 wounds combined with a 2+/4++/6+++ save makes him pretty damn resilient. Unfortunately, the Man has a flaw: he has an Iron Halo. Taking an Iron Halo in your army means you can't have an Adamantine Mantle, which means Terminator Command Squads become quite a bit worse. Furthermore, Helbrecht himself is not immune to having his brains smashed out by a Power Fist, cementing his place as dust-collector on the shelf.
Reclusiarch Grimaldus, Hero of Helsreach
Spoiler:
The other Man, Myth and Legend, Grimaldus, just like Helbrecht, comes with stuff that'd cost around as much as he costs himself, plus a few nifty special thingies. The Relic he carries is immensely useful on a turn in which you get a charge off with something like TH/SS Terminators or a Blob of Doom. His special rule works like a kind of pseudo-EW, letting him take a Thunder Hammer to the face and probably keep fighting. Other than that Grimaldus is just a normal Reclusiarch, except he doesn't have access to a 2+ armour save. In a Black Tide this guy is essential, as he grants a 6" fearless-bubble and has a Relic. Unfortunately, the fact that he has to bring his 3 Servitors means he takes up way too much space in any transport to work very well outside Black Tides, a list-type that is mediocre at best, which leaves him next to Helbrecht on the shelf gathering dust.
Elites choices Sword Brethren Terminator Squad
Spoiler:
These guys are stellar. Tank Hunters and double Cyclone Missile Launchers was a staple unit during 5th and they only got better during 6th due to the buffs to Tank Hunters and 2+ armour saves. Just as with the Terminator Command Squads, these guys are also excellent with two Assault Cannons and Tank Hunters in a Drop Pod. Again, heavy flamers aren't bad, but not as good as the alternatives.More thoughts on these guys in the Drop Pod section. Same closing statement as for the Command Squad version: don't get FC. Don't.
Sword Brethren Assault Terminator Squad
Spoiler:
The infamous Assault Terminators. Ours are probably still the best in the game (not counting Deathwing, because they're special), although not as amazing as in 5th. TH/SS Terminators with rage and Tank Hunters (again, don't take FC if you're going TH/SS) wreck face. Unfortunately, between the nerf to Furious Charge, Lightning Claw AP and AAC the Lightning Claw Asault Terminators aren't very good anymore. Unlike other Chapters that either have to risk deep striking or buy a Land Raider to get these guys anywhere soon, we can Drop Pod ours, which means we can have them where we want turn 1. Same tactics as any other TH/SS Terminators; don't run into hordes if you can avoid it.
Sword Brethren Squad
Spoiler:
Although many people didn't like these guys in 5th, I loved them. Sadly, with the combined Power Weapon and Furious Charge nerfs, these guys are now pretty much rubbish. Just as their Command Squad counterpart, they just cost too much to arm effectively, and still die just as easily as a normal marine. The fact that they're competing for Elites slots doesn't help them either. If they were troops they'd be OK, but they just don't hold a candle to Terminators, Techmarines or Dreadnoughts.
Dreadnoughts
Spoiler:
Comes in various shapes and sizes, the most popular being Venerable Tank Hunter Lasmissile Dreadnought. Despite the competition Dreadnoughts face for Elites slots, they're still pretty decent. Apart from the Venerable Tank Hunter, the only two other non-silly builds are Assault Cannon/DCCW and MM/DCCW, preferrably in a Drop Pod. Sadly, us Black Templars don't get access to the Rifleman Dreadnought. With the advent of hull points and grenades hitting on WS, the two DCCW-builds have taken quite a nerf to the point where I'd personally just get more Terminators for the points.
Techmarines
Spoiler:
Venerate the Omnissiah and His servants, for they are amazing. With 2 wounds and access to the armoury, the Black Templars Techmarines aren't as worthless as their Vanilla counterparts. While a little pricey, a Techmarine with Servo-harness, Power Fist and Storm Shield is basically a miniature MC that you can attach to your various squads. If you don't feel like spending as many points you can always skip the Power Fist and run with his standard Power Weapon (Axe) which is included free of charge. This guy can even buy Terminator Armour, although that prevents you from buying a Servo-harness. I'll talk more about this guy in the Drop Pod section. The fact that he has a Signum is just icing on the cake, although I tend to roll 1's every time I shoot a meltagun anyway...
Troops Crusader Squads
Spoiler:
The one and only Troops Choice. There are quite a few ways to use these guys though. The classic 5-man Lasplas (bolter, lascannon and plasma gun) squad is probably one of the most efficient backfield objective campers in the game. If you positively have to shave off some points, the Missplas (bolter, missile launcher and plasma gun) works the same way. For a more agressive approach there's two main contenders, excepting the Blob of Doom which I'll discuss in a minute: the Meltafist and the Meltasword squad. The Meltafist is just what it sounds like: Some guys in a transport with CCWs, a Power Fist and a Meltagun. The Meltasword squad is the same, except they have a Power Weapon of choice instead. While we only have 1A base Power Fists, the fact that the Power Fist is only 5 points more expensive as opposed to the "normal" 15 points makes me feel that the Power Fist option is to prefer, especially considering that it's not on a character and thus can't be challenge-killed.
The Blob of Doom is the central ingredient in a Black Tide list: 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes with CCWs, a meltagun and some sort of special CCW (see above) led by an Independent Character, usually a Chaplain of some sort with Cenobyte Servitors to maximize the distance travelled when using Righteous Zeal. While this type of list is playable, it's not exactly stellar and blobs generally work poorly outside of Black Tides.
Dedicated transports Rhinoes (METAL BOXES!)
Spoiler:
It's a Rhino. It transports things. As our Razorbacks are less than stellar, I prefer these for my land transportation needs. A tactic that I sometimes used in 5th that has gotten better in 6th is the "melta-bunker", i.e. a Crusader squad with a meltagun and a multi-melta in a Rhino. Move the Rhino up to midfield and sit there daring your opponent's armoured units to come close. Don't ever expect a Rhino to live very long if your opponent decides it's worth shooting though. Now that glances no longer gives you a result on the damage chart I'd ignore Extra Armour altogether and just pay for the Smoke Launchers.
Razorbacks
Spoiler:
The up-gunned version of the Metal Box. Unfortunately our Razorbacks come in two flavours; TL Heavy Bolter, which, without psybolt ammo, is pretty bad, and TL Lascannon, which is good but monstrously expensive, to the point that it costs almost as much as the unit it's purchased for. If you've got a 5-man squad in a Rhino (that isn't a melta-bunker obviously) and you have another 40 or so points to spend, sure, upgrade your Rhino to a Razorback, but I'm not very impressed with them otherwise.
Drop Pods
Spoiler:
And so we come to what I personally feel is one of two ways to run a competetive Black Templars army, the other being the static gunline of snooze and boredom. The thing that sets Black Templar Drop Pod armies apart from everyone else is the fact that we get to Drop Pod Terminators (well, except Loganwing, but they don't get as cheap TH/SS Terminators or double Assault Cannons). Further aided by the fact that Techmarines can turn even our mediocre Crusader Squads into a wrecking ball in CC, Drop Pods in my opinion far outshine their more expensive brethren in the Dedicated Transport section. Dropping in two or three Terminator Squads on a flank on turn 1 lets you apply overwhelming force against key targets. As an added bonus, Drop Pod armies are the bane of the Necron Airforce, as long as you have enough firepower to focus on the few units they have to deploy on the table turn 1. Again, the concept of multiple threats applies, which is why I'm so sold on Techmarines; they let you make every unit dangerous. As a whole, a Drop Pod list might be at a firepower disadvantage to an enemy gunline, but the entire point of Drop Pods is that they give you local superiority, allowing you to ignore parts of your opponent's army while you pick apart the rest. Just make sure to drop your units near eachother so that they can support eachother.
If you're not running a list with a focus on Drop Pods, Pods can still be useful. For example, they make for prime Dreadnought delivery platforms.
If you're going to run an all-pod list, please do note that the units that the Drop Pods are bought for do NOT count for the 50% reserve restriction.
Fast Attack Assault Marines
Spoiler:
These guys were pretty bad in 5th. Sure, they weren't completely unplayable, but they're just so damn expensive. In 6th, these guys got a boost in Hammer of Wrath and the ability to reroll charge distances if they haven't used their Jump Packs that turn. The big change, however, is that Meltabombs now are guaranteed to hit vehicles on at worst a 3+. 5 guys zooming around with 2 Plasma pistols, Meltabombs and a Power Fist makes for a decent anti-tank melee/short-range option. Have no illusions though, they're still not very good at actually killing anything that can hit back in melee.
Land Speeder Squadrons
Spoiler:
There are two kinds of Land Speeders: those that are Land Speeder Typhoons and those that aren't. Land Speeder Typhoons give us our cheapest long-range firepower in the Codex. They fill in for the Devastator Squads that aren't there. The fact that most other Fast Attack choices are questionable at best further boosts these guys. They took a nerf in 6th, having only 2 Hull Points, which is perilous indeed when even Bolters can glance you, but in return they now have a permanent 5+ cover save if they move. In short, Land Speeder Typhoons are still among our best units and should not be underestimated.
Then there's the rest. HB/AC or MM/HF (or just a Heavy Bolter, but come on). Just asMM/HF Speeders were useful in the past, they remain so now. However, their main weakness, fragility due to low armour and short range, has only gotten worse in 6th edition. I'm not very sold on these guys myself, but I guess they still work as Deep Strikers.
As for the HB/AC Speeder, I've no clue if it's good or not; I haven't bothered using it. Considering it's short range I'd assume it runs into the same kind of troubles as the MM/HF Speeder, except it's more expensive.
Bike Squadrons
Spoiler:
While our Bikes are more expensive than that of other Chapters, we get to take 3 Special Weapons instead of just 2. We also get the option of having Power Weapons, which will let us put out a respectable 4 PW attacks per model on the charge. 3 guys with 3 Meltas is just shy of 130 points, whereas 3 guys with 3 Plasmas is just above 110. The problem, obviously, is that you're paying an insane amount of points for 3 models that die quite easily. While the Attack Bike with MM is nice, it's also pretty pricey. With Hammer of Wrath the melee version of these guys has gotten better, but again, you're paying through the nose.
Attack Bike Squadrons
Spoiler:
Go Multi-melta or go home. Unfortunately, we can't just take one bike, but must instead pay for 2, making these guys just as expensive as their Biker brethren above (although with an extra wound traded for a Melta shot). I want to like these guys, but they're just sitting ducks that won't get anywhere near where they need to be before being shot to pieces.
Stay tuned the following days for the rest of the units!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/09/09 12:04:02
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/06 17:17:55
Subject: Re:AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
Although, I still like my assault termies with FC. Can you talk a little more about this, and why its not the best choice for them? I normally run a MoS with them (dual claws) and a combo of TH/SS and LC. (most of the time 3 LC, and 4 TH/SS with the MoS, he is the other set of LC.)
Also, I never know where to put my marshal. I always take him, but typically run a termie command squad, and put a SS on him for the 3++ for the squad. Then I equip my SGT the same way, storm bolter, and SS. I only do this for that inv portection.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/06 17:42:46
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica"
2012/09/06 17:47:16
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
Although, I still like my assault termies with FC. Can you talk a little more about this, and why its not the best choice for them? I normally run a MoS with them (dual claws) and a combo of TH/SS and LC. (most of the time 3 LC, and 4 TH/SS with the MoS, he is the other set of LC.)
Also, I never know where to put my marshal. I always take him, but typically run a termie command squad, and put a SS on him for the 3++ for the squad. Then I equip my SGT the same way, storm bolter, and SS. I only do this for that inv portection.
If you run claw Terminators FC is alright, I just don't feel claw Terminators are very good anymore. Thus, I'd rather have Tank Hunters on my TH/SS Termies than FC. I also run my Marshal with a Terminator Command Squad, double Assault Cannon and Tank Hunters in a Drop Pod, but I run a pretty Drop Pod-heavy list.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/06 18:04:35
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
I am going to play a 1999+1 point list this friday, DP heavy. I havnt played with DP yet in 6th. So you have to start with something on the board, correct? Then bring in half of your reserves(rounding up). So I was thinking of at least 5 pods, 3 on the first turn.
Cause I was thinking of doing all DP/ Deep strike list.
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica"
2012/09/07 09:14:49
Subject: Re:AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
Drop pods are dedicated, so they dont count toward your reserves or something? I am not a hardcore gamer by any means, so I am always brushing up on rules.
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica"
2012/09/07 14:24:35
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
Drop pods are dedicated, so they dont count toward your reserves or something? I am not a hardcore gamer by any means, so I am always brushing up on rules.
No, Drop Pods have to start in reserves, so they don't count for the 50%, and the units inside have a special exception from the rules about 50%. The update was simply the fact that I added the Dedicated Transport part, which wasn't there yesterday.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Double post, but the new FAQs really fethed over Black Templars.
Q: Is the Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch vow taken instead of
normal Deny the Witch rolls? (p25)
A: Yes.
Fair enough, a nerf but not a big one.
Q: Must the ‘Consolidate move’ towards the enemy for Righteous Zeal
be made in full? (p23)
A: Yes.
That completely kills Lasplas squads and nerfs double CML Terminators. One casualty and you're having to move out of position, possibly even into range of assaults. One has to wonder, are the guys who write this anti-Black Templars or something. First they nerf AAC and now THIS?
Oh well, at least we got our good, cheap Land Speeder Typhoons back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/07 17:25:19
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/07 18:00:57
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
Ouch... I did not catch the consildate move one. The last BT player I went up against never did this. I called him out on in, and tried to prove me wrong at all cost. I just let him do his thing.
And yes, somebody loves us out there enough to keep the Typhoons they way it should be. We need some type of advantage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/07 18:16:13
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica"
2012/09/07 18:15:27
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
J99Pwrangler wrote: Ouch... I did not catch the consildate move one. The last BT player I went up against never did this. I called him out on in, and tried to prove me wrong at all cost. I just let him do his thing.
It's a new ruling. The codex says "move up to..." so moving half an inch satisfied the Righteous Zeal. Now, it's move the full.
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2012/09/07 19:33:14
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
So are you sure that you cannot bring a Command Squad and field them separately? I took the FaQ as saying that you must bring an HQ to have access to the squad, not that you must have him attached at all times. If they meant it that way, they would have used the word attached. I.E. I take it as being the same as a Farseer + Warlocks. You cannot bring Warlocks without a Farseer to lead the unit, but the Farseer doesn't have to remain with the unit at all times.
Additionally, I don't really see any huge point in bringing the Master of Sanctity over the Reclusiarch. His Ld10 isn't horribly needed with a Marshal (which I run these two together mostly, maybe this is the difference for me) and while he does have one more wound his points could be put elsewhere. I find that running a Reclusiarch gets the job done, and the points are almost always better spent on Terminator Honors for him than the extra Wound.
I have run successful Command Squad/Sword Brethren lists with mass infiltrating, it is a fun and interesting tactic that can bring life to these guys. Also a Command Squad being able to take FNP is pretty damn good and shouldn't be written off so easily.
I need to get myself a Tech Marine :3 They got really good this edition and would be fun to switch it up.
Crusaders I find run best on foot as a group of just 10 marines. I don't take the PF because you lose the extra attack as it's now a specialist weapon. I run them with a Power Weapon - Axe and it seems to work out well. They are durable enough to where he always gets to swing, and since he isn't a challenger the initiative doesn't matter so much. This will also pull through verse Termies and Mega Nobz. I find that 10/10 squads die to easily as there is too much AP4 for it to be effective.
I find Razorbacks and Rhinos to both be totally useless as I refuse to run the Las/Plas squads that everyone loves to hug. I play BT to be melee oriented, not a heavy weapons team! However Drop Pods have only gotten more useful in 6th, but were already great for us in 5th. I also find that Drop Pods can be very effective in a Tide list to give yourself a wall of cover to advance (if you are fighting LRBT for example).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/08 01:25:24
2012/09/08 08:56:58
Subject: Re:AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
I'd rather have an extra Wound than an extra Attack every day. As for Command Squads, page 22 states:
Codex: Black Templars page 22 wrote:Commanders and Chaplains (not the Emperor's Champion!) may lead a Command squad. The character and the unit are a single HQ choice. The character is a member of the unit and may not leave it. If the squad is destroyed the character may operate independently.
Emphasis mine.
Regarding command squads, yes you can get FNP. Whoop dee doo. Then what? You have what is essentially a 5-man Crusader squad with Feel No Pain that isn't scoring. If you want them to actually be worth anything you need to buy them upgrades, which is just too damn expensive.
Power Fists losing the extra attack has been the case since 5th, so it's nothing new. Furthermore, a Power Fist is more useful against T4 multiwound models, Monstrous Creatures and Vehicles. Again, if the Power Fist were 25 points and the Axe 10 you might convince me, but 5 more points for a Power Fist is just too good to pass up, especially seeing as we don't get Krak grenades standard.
I also run my Templars as an assault-focused army, but you simply cannot avoid the fact that you have to have SOMETHING that holds your home objectives and shoots holes in enemy vehicles.
Fast Attack added!
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/09 00:25:54
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
AlmightyWalrus wrote: I'd rather have an extra Wound than an extra Attack every day. As for Command Squads, page 22 states:
Codex: Black Templars page 22 wrote:Commanders and Chaplains (not the Emperor's Champion!) may lead a Command squad. The character and the unit are a single HQ choice. The character is a member of the unit and may not leave it. If the squad is destroyed the character may operate independently.
Emphasis mine.
Regarding command squads, yes you can get FNP. Whoop dee doo. Then what? You have what is essentially a 5-man Crusader squad with Feel No Pain that isn't scoring. If you want them to actually be worth anything you need to buy them upgrades, which is just too damn expensive.
Power Fists losing the extra attack has been the case since 5th, so it's nothing new. Furthermore, a Power Fist is more useful against T4 multiwound models, Monstrous Creatures and Vehicles. Again, if the Power Fist were 25 points and the Axe 10 you might convince me, but 5 more points for a Power Fist is just too good to pass up, especially seeing as we don't get Krak grenades standard.
I also run my Templars as an assault-focused army, but you simply cannot avoid the fact that you have to have SOMETHING that holds your home objectives and shoots holes in enemy vehicles.
Fast Attack added!
Can't believe I missed that page! Well dang, I've been playing it wrong all this time. Also, 3+ w/ 5+ FNP is ~22% to miss, 2+ is a ~16% chance to miss. Down from ~33% chance to miss for 15 points you are able to make a really durable squad on the cheap. However, since you cannot detach from it (now that I know) it isn't as easy to justify. Still, if you play BT like me and run mass troops at the enemy it's still useful for 15 points.
2012/09/09 08:15:43
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread
Page 22 – Drop Pod Assault.
Replace this entry with the following rules:
“Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods must enter play using the Deep
Strike rules. At the beginning of your first turn, choose half of
your Drop Pods (rounding up) to make a ‘Drop Pod Assault’.
Units making a Drop Pod Assault arrive on their controlling
player’s first turn. The arrival of the remaining Drop Pods is
rolled for as normal. A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod
cannot charge in the turn it arrives.
Immobile: A Drop Pod cannot move once it has entered the
battle, and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered
an Immobilised damage result that cannot be repaired in any
way.
Inertial Guidance System: Should a Drop Pod scatter on top of
impassable terrain or another model (friend or foe) then
reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required in order
to avoid the obstacle. Note that if a Drop Pod scatters off the
edge of the board then they will suffer a Deep Strike Mishap as
per the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.”
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/09 16:19:38
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
Because it's our Drop Pod Assault rules that specify what units get to take Drop Pods in the first place. They removed that, pasted in the new Drop Pod Assault rules and errata'd most units that could take Drop Pods to have them as a Transport Option. Not Terminators, Assault Terminators or Terminator Command Squads though.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/09 18:14:08
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
Using the 9/10 man squads in rhinos with a cc character works great. I usually run chaplains over anything else, especially now with AAC being what it is. A PF, Artificer and Terminator Honors is really tasty. As for range I've been using Imperial Fist Allies to get some drop sterngaurd/Devastators. I'm a strong believer that the regular crusader squad will outshine Sword Brethren and Command Squads due to their cost, boosted with a chaplain, EC, they pack the punch to hit most anything.
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2012/09/09 18:51:11
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
The Crusader wrote: But it still says that it can transport models in TDA...
Yes, you can run Marshals and stuff in it, but you can't have Terminator Squads or Terminator Command Squads in them anymore, which completely feths over Drop Pod lists.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2012/09/10 14:48:46
Subject: Re:AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Because it's our Drop Pod Assault rules that specify what units get to take Drop Pods in the first place. They removed that, pasted in the new Drop Pod Assault rules and errata'd most units that could take Drop Pods to have them as a Transport Option. Not Terminators, Assault Terminators or Terminator Command Squads though.
^This^
Essentially before the current FAQ in 6th no unit could take drop pods. As the text stating drop pods was removed and replaced(with the passage above, which contains no details of which units can have one assigned.)
Now they have finally changed the dedicated transport entries in the BT army list, to enable certain units to have a drop pod again. The terminator units were not lucky.
2012/09/10 15:36:51
Subject: AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
Damn, I just ran a drop pod list on friday with terminators, it was against necrond tho. I got spanked.
I still need to tweak my list around. I am thinking of running a Black Tide agian since pods are fun, just hard to play. As soon as you come in your going to lose one squad to shooting, or have there crappy units assault you, tie you up, and lose that unit any ways. I am having a hard time making a list that is "assaulty orientated" as by playing for fluff.
Any recomendations for a good and true Black Templar assault list?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, on a side note for all of my Templar battle brothers....
Whats the best flyer for a Black templar army to use? (this could be an ally/ or forgeworld flyer.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/10 15:40:03
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica"
2012/09/11 10:25:32
Subject: Re:AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Because it's our Drop Pod Assault rules that specify what units get to take Drop Pods in the first place. They removed that, pasted in the new Drop Pod Assault rules and errata'd most units that could take Drop Pods to have them as a Transport Option. Not Terminators, Assault Terminators or Terminator Command Squads though.
^This^
Essentially before the current FAQ in 6th no unit could take drop pods. As the text stating drop pods was removed and replaced(with the passage above, which contains no details of which units can have one assigned.)
Now they have finally changed the dedicated transport entries in the BT army list, to enable certain units to have a drop pod again. The terminator units were not lucky.
This is one of the reasons my poor templar just get put back on the shelf after a game a month to keep the dust off of them. Land raiders get fethed over too easily (i play a lot of Dark Eldar lately, and those haywire toting wyches are my bane), drop pod lists have lost their prime candidate for alpha strike (Tank hunting assault cannon termies), and if I wanted to play a horde army, I would play one that can spam power armour for cheaper (Sisters of battle, space wolves, even Chaos Space marines can put more power armour bodies on the field than we can if they wanted).
Even my line breaker army (LRCs aided by PotMS Vindicators) took a beating when fliers started becoming prominent on the field. I love my men in black, and I refuse to give up on them, but I am finding it more and more difficult =/
2012/09/11 14:32:05
Subject: Re:AlmightyWalrus's Black Templars tactica and discussion thread - AKA Why does GW hate Black Templars?
I think that Templar armies will be focused on Bikes and Drop Pods now. The characters on bikes become ball busters in CC and act as the tank model in the squad they join. Bikes also get around the Righteous Zeal nerf because they don't zeal. The Abhor the Witch vow allows them a D6" consolidate move towards the enemy before the game begins...which you can reroll with crusader seals since every character has them standard. This allows the bikes to basically move across the table up to 42" on turn one if you need them that far forward. Also, it allows them to instantly move behind your podded units in support. At that point, long range fire power isn't needed as your army will be in your opponents DZ in one turn. Techmarines act as squad buffs and a second 2+ save guy if you are running a marshal an a MoS with 2+ armor. A MoS or a Marshal on a bike with 2+ armor and a mantle is probably the most durable model in the game. Your drop pod squads can either carry the Meltafist or plasmafist variety.
Thats a very good point with the bikes. But wouldnt you want AAC with pods/ assault units? Your Abhor would only effect your bike unit at the "scouting phase" of the unit. So its a cheaper VOW, but only that one unit would benefit form it.
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica"
10k Black Templar
Warhound Titan "Legio Matallica" 
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