Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Its hard to tell here where I live. Declining sales and players could be due to the Earthquakes, price increases in the products and/or cost of living. Some peoples rents went from easily payable to way over the top. $1000 a week for a 2 bedroom place in some cases.

Numberwise though, 3 years ago it would be normal to see perhaps 40 people show up to a weekly game group, 2 years ago prior to the quake it was still about the same. Post quake it was normal to still see 20-30 a week playing. Now you'd find maybe 2-8 people playing 40k.

The 3 stores that carry GW products have also shrunk what they hold. 2 stores went from about 5m of wall space in each store devoted to GW Products down to 0.5-2m of wall space. The other would hold perhaps 1 box of 50%of the available units of each GW army.

On the reverse though, Flames of War has grown, from what would be 0.5m of wall space in all 3 shops, they now hold 1.5-3m wall space. War Machine is available from only one shop I know of, they have also grown in size.

I think in the case of those games, its because the cost to start up and collect is so much cheaper. $60 to start up Flames of War, $120 to start WarMachine, $210 to start 40k. Then to add on to each game at say a value of $1000 you could have a semi-good 40k army, never need to buy anything again for Warmachine or Flames of War.
Then the add on campaigns are $60+ for a single GW add on, $10-30 for a FOW or Warmachines add on.

Could also be that with those games it seems the units don't become "useless" at a fast rate. 40k seems to be a game that is hard to get on top of, then when you think "Yeah I got a sweet army, it will do well" things change and 50% of what you have is no longer useful, or the other side, you have to add on another large amount of things to get back to the "level" playing field.
Plus you have added costs for keeping things safe. Carry cases, etc I mean. A case that holds 4 Rhino tanks and 50 infantry would also be able to hold like 100 FOW tanks and 500 infantry. (Why you would need that many is crazy though).

So whether its less money, less time, people just not wanting to play in game clubs or the end of the world as we know it... There's no denying the gaming scene has contracted within the city.

SkyD wrote:
Its hard to tell here where I live. Declining sales and players could be due to the Earthquakes, price increases in the products and/or cost of living. Some peoples rents went from easily payable to way over the top. $1000 a week for a 2 bedroom place in some cases.

Numberwise though, 3 years ago it would be normal to see perhaps 40 people show up to a weekly game group, 2 years ago prior to the quake it was still about the same. Post quake it was normal to still see 20-30 a week playing. Now you'd find maybe 2-8 people playing 40k.

The 3 stores that carry GW products have also shrunk what they hold. 2 stores went from about 5m of wall space in each store devoted to GW Products down to 0.5-2m of wall space. The other would hold perhaps 1 box of 50%of the available units of each GW army.

On the reverse though, Flames of War has grown, from what would be 0.5m of wall space in all 3 shops, they now hold 1.5-3m wall space. War Machine is available from only one shop I know of, they have also grown in size.

I think in the case of those games, its because the cost to start up and collect is so much cheaper. $60 to start up Flames of War, $120 to start WarMachine, $210 to start 40k. Then to add on to each game at say a value of $1000 you could have a semi-good 40k army, never need to buy anything again for Warmachine or Flames of War.
Then the add on campaigns are $60+ for a single GW add on, $10-30 for a FOW or Warmachines add on.

Could also be that with those games it seems the units don't become "useless" at a fast rate. 40k seems to be a game that is hard to get on top of, then when you think "Yeah I got a sweet army, it will do well" things change and 50% of what you have is no longer useful, or the other side, you have to add on another large amount of things to get back to the "level" playing field.
Plus you have added costs for keeping things safe. Carry cases, etc I mean. A case that holds 4 Rhino tanks and 50 infantry would also be able to hold like 100 FOW tanks and 500 infantry. (Why you would need that many is crazy though).

So whether its less money, less time, people just not wanting to play in game clubs or the end of the world as we know it... There's no denying the gaming scene has contracted within the city.

QFT

Added information. The changes in hours at the UK stores. The UK is the crown jewel for Games Workshop. Close to one third of their stores world wide is in the UK.

Sounds like that they are going to have a shorter hours per week over there. Which means of course less people needed to work. This was done in 2010 in the US. It only a matter of time when It would hit the UK.

To me this part of the continuing GW revenue streamlining process to keep those profit numbers up high enough for the investors.

You can only raise the prices and loss of services only so much before people find other things to spend their money on.

It's stagnant over here. A lot of players at my FLGS are switching to Warmahordes and Flames of War, they're tired of Games Workshop's bad business practices and I don't blame them.

The long gaps of releasing and not releasing codices, the constant price hikes and over all balance of the game. And I think that is the reason why they are losing money, I wouldn't blame it solely on the recession.

 English Assassin wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

The old adage goes that a picture can be worth a thousand words. If only this one were.

Accounting to the figures collated by distributors Diamond, the hobby games sector grew in volume by at least 20% in 2011, and is projected to do the same this year, recession or no recession. That excuse, like GW's declining sales figures, looks ever more pathetic in that light.

 Ailaros wrote:
As for other games, yeah, a lot of 40k players over the years have gone over to a large number of indie games that pop up. And then they fail. And then the players are back to playing 40k.

Malifaux is hot right now, but in 5 years nearly everyone who is playing Malifaux right now will be back in 40k. Just like confrontation, just like AT49, just like another dozen games you haven't heard of before, despite the fact that they were "better" games that were going to "beat" 40k.

You've made this smug, complacent argument before; last time you did I pointed out that Privateer and Wyrd have both been around for a decade, and - though their end-of-year accounts are not public - if their expanding release schedules and willingness to invest in plastics are any gauge, are enjoying positive growth during this boom.

I don't anticipate either of them overtaking GW within the foreseeable future, but don't be so blinkered as to pretend that they are not facing genuine competition, particularly given that Warmachine recently overtook Warhammer Fantasy as the second most popular wargame sold through hobby stores.

Does GW spilt the figures for 40k WHFB and LOTR sales in their reports? If not why are you assuming its 40k that is losing players?, and why assume it is losing players rather then not gaining new ones, you can still play 40k without buying or at least limiting your buying compared to previous years, assuming that a flat or slightly negative revenue stream means anything in detail without having the facts there to back them up is pointless, imo. Feel free to point out any facts you have?

And to assume that a company is doing well, Privateer and Wyrd you mentioned, based on their greater expenditure is also moot, as you said yourself you cannot see their accounts and without seeing a month on month breakdown i doubt you would be able to understand exactly what is good or bad growth

I've been gaming since I was 10... that's been nearly two decades now and I've noticed a fairly steady decline locally.

Several GW stores dried up in the last few years and the concentration of turds grew exponentially at my local game spot. This caused me to form a "club" and game with a regular group of die-hards. Our ages and occupations run the gamut, but the scene outside our enclave is on life support.

Our group mostly started with 40k, but we've slowly gravitated to other rules systems. Historicals, Ancients and Napoleonics in particular, have taken center stage the past few years. 6th edition was a welcome change and breathed a little life into us as we playtest the rules.

We still love our 40k campaigns though.

2011 was my last year for GW tournaments as well.

I don't think miniatures gaming will go the way of model railroading though and will be around for quite some time.

I've been having some more thoughts. Just speaking for where I am in the world.

15 years ago I know you could grab Epic minis in a shop, but you can't now. I wonder if fans of Epic scale that want to get back into it found the availability of Epic is well, nil. (Online only and I'd take a wild swing that GW shops in NZ won't have stock to send to a buyer within the country, adding to postage times, its unlikely there would be anything in the stores that are here too, which are only in the North Island). But they can walk into one of 3 shops and pick up things in the same scale (FOW) and be on a roll again in no time.

So maybe Flames of War has managed to hit the nostalgia factor of Epic players, being that 2 of the 3 stores here are toy stores. Go in to get something for the kids and find something that hits your fond memory area. Added bonus is you can use FOW minis to just do dioramas, etc. No need to worry about all the assembly of a model.

I know the basic of 40k is also the 1 HQ, 2 Troops thing but I think few people ever play skirmish games like this. I don't play it but I assume WarMachine has hit that factor and I do wonder if perhaps some people, some, might go to Warmachine because to them, that is like the 40k they enjoyed.

Looking at complaints like ones in other threads on here, I think maybe 40k as it is now, is for an example... Epic done in Warhammer 40k scale. A scale that is too large for the average table. 4' x 4'/4' x 6' table played an Epic scale game fine, played an older 40k game well. But not a current 40k game. Too much space is taken up by the troops, tanks, flyers, etc. Which is where Epic had an advantage, you could have 10 guys on one base who got moved in one go, not 10 single guys that get moved 1-2 at a time.
Both Flames and Epic's size means you can pick up lots in one hand, something that you can't with 40k minis.

What I'm trying to say is, time-wise and space-wise, its daunting to play a 40k game. I remember playing through the Battle for Macragge missions, you could play 3-4 games in the time it takes to play a single 1500 point 40k game now.
Which I assume is where Flames and Warmachine seem to also have advantages over 40k. Tutorials on Flames indicate you have like 3 levels of "mastery" for your minis. Depending on the level you need to roll X, but there are easy to remember modifiers as well. Warmachine seems to come with cards, helpful in game, really helpful for a beginner. I struggle in 40k with the rules, special rules, modifiers, this thing, that thing but also when you're starting, the whole if X model's whatever is Y, and your miniature's save is Z, you die, just die, nothing you can do. Really sucks when you build an army as a beginner, go for a game, 1st turn your entire army dies because the opponents army is made up of guys that insta-kill you. Or you know, as an Eldar player, our almighty 12 inches of range. (You don't have transports, kiss any ideas of a win, or a draw, goodbye).

But I'm sure its not just limited to NZ, I think world wide, spare time is on the decline. You need to work more to make enough to keep your head above water. Then if you have a partner/wife you need to have time for them, if you have kids you need to have time for them, etc. Work is important because it is what gives you money, family is important because life is somewhat meaningless without people to love. At the end of the day you work 5 days to keep above water, at least one day of the weekend is spent on other things, you get maybe one day left. 40k can have a long set up time, then the game itself can be hours long, then the pack down time is long too. All in all, if in your week you get 4 hours free time, you might not get to finish a game of 40k so its not as fun as it could be. Much easier to pick up a game with pretty much easy as rules to remember and easy reference guides and you can play it on the kitchen table, if you have one, which I guess is another side.

Shrinking living space. Living in a small flat means having a table is impossible for some, always the floor, but if you have flatmates its not a good place for fragile miniatures. Smaller homes means less space to store things, a 40k game with no terrain will end quick if one side is better ranged/powered than the other.
Looks like an ok Warmachine force could be kept in a shoe box, a good number of FOW things could fit in the same space. If not 2 armies, bring it out and play a friend.

There's also no denying that the attention spans of peoples are also waning. It can be pretty boring if your opponent takes 30mins just to make his first turn. You do yours in 5, he takes an hour for the next one. We pretty much live in an age of quick.

Plus above where I mentioned FOW minis being used for dioramas. Well FOW minis can be used for play toys too, or playing other games that use that kind of mini. Warhammer minis can be used for RPG's, Warhammer, Crusade era skirmishes, Mordheim, D&D, etc. 40k is more limited, Necromunda, or use Tyranids and Guard to play Aliens: Colonial Marines, etc. Inquisitor, Death Watch, etc. Or Judge Dredd, style games, etc. Its just a fantasy setting has more uses than a futuristic setting, and you don't need lots of mini's to play other games.

Like you can have a game of Hero Quest, Space Crusade, Space Hulk, Legend of Drizzt, these skirmish games are all stored easy, quick to learn, etc. Multiple games on one night. The fun factor is easier to find, compared to the drag 40k can be.

Maybe starter game balance issues too. Warmachine's 9 vs 8 mini's, Flame's 3 vs 2 tanks, 40k... Well the past 2 starter boxes have been rather, unbalanced. Orks in AOBR were less points than marines, if I remember right you could have 3 more Deffkoptas at least and then points balance out. Dark Vengeance has like 1 dreadnought, 5 Chaos Space Marines and a Lord who stand a chance vs Bikes who move fast, Dreadwing which shake off hits, a tactical squad with plasma and and 3 HQ's. (Limited edition). I don't really think the Cultists have great chances in surviving. (Also this shows the size difference in games well too, 17 mini's in Warmachine, 5 in Flames. Less to paint that the 30+ in 40k).

 Nox wrote:
Personally, I haven't given up playing the occasional game of 40K. But I have pretty much given up on buying anything new from them. Their prices are just too high now.

That is the case for at least 6 of my friends that play. Even with changes in edition, replace a few arms, and they can make decent armies with what they already have. That and most of them also refuse to buy any more 'fine' cast past their initial purchase. The problem I noticed a while ago seemed to be that stuff was just too expensive for new players to get much, especially the young ones. Though my FLGS did help some by buying and selling used models as well. At least that helped the new guys out.

I have to say, that I myself pretty much agree with the rest of my group. Some GW things are just like, way overpriced for what they are or compared to something similar.

 Wight Lord wrote:

 Nox wrote:
Personally, I haven't given up playing the occasional game of 40K. But I have pretty much given up on buying anything new from them. Their prices are just too high now.

That is the case for at least 6 of my friends that play. Even with changes in edition, replace a few arms, and they can make decent armies with what they already have. That and most of them also refuse to buy any more 'fine' cast past their initial purchase. The problem I noticed a while ago seemed to be that stuff was just too expensive for new players to get much, especially the young ones. Though my FLGS did help some by buying and selling used models as well. At least that helped the new guys out.

I have to say, that I myself pretty much agree with the rest of my group. Some GW things are just like, way overpriced for what they are or compared to something similar.

Having recently got back into 40k trying to buy a new army is just to much.
when I had to also buy a codex and wait for that to arrive befor I could work out what I wanted to get, the price as it adds up just horendes.
just feels the time would be better spent playing other games that offer a better experience as a whole now.

Had to make it read better :p

MarkyMark wrote:

 English Assassin wrote:
Accounting to the figures collated by distributors Diamond, the hobby games sector grew in volume by at least 20% in 2011, and is projected to do the same this year, recession or no recession. That excuse, like GW's declining sales figures, looks ever more pathetic in that light.

 Ailaros wrote:
As for other games, yeah, a lot of 40k players over the years have gone over to a large number of indie games that pop up. And then they fail. And then the players are back to playing 40k.

Malifaux is hot right now, but in 5 years nearly everyone who is playing Malifaux right now will be back in 40k. Just like confrontation, just like AT49, just like another dozen games you haven't heard of before, despite the fact that they were "better" games that were going to "beat" 40k.

You've made this smug, complacent argument before; last time you did I pointed out that Privateer and Wyrd have both been around for a decade, and - though their end-of-year accounts are not public - if their expanding release schedules and willingness to invest in plastics are any gauge, are enjoying positive growth during this boom.

I don't anticipate either of them overtaking GW within the foreseeable future, but don't be so blinkered as to pretend that they are not facing genuine competition, particularly given that Warmachine recently overtook Warhammer Fantasy as the second most popular wargame sold through hobby stores.

Does GW spilt the figures for 40k WHFB and LOTR sales in their reports? If not why are you assuming its 40k that is losing players?, and why assume it is losing players rather then not gaining new ones, you can still play 40k without buying or at least limiting your buying compared to previous years, assuming that a flat or slightly negative revenue stream means anything in detail without having the facts there to back them up is pointless, imo. Feel free to point out any facts you have?

Firstly, my point was to refute the "hurr, durr, recession" argument, not to make any very specific claims about 40k's popularity. However, in light of industry figures that sales in the gaming sector are rising, while GW's sales are shrinking, and in the absence of any reason to assume Fantasy's or LotR's sales have declined more steeply than 40k's, logic dictates that we presume them to be proportionately distributed across each line, and that 40k's sales will as such have declined. If you wish to contend that 40k is bucking GW's overall trend of falling sales (and by extension, lessening popularity), then the burden of proof is on you.

My FLGS tends to see a good 20+ players per week, with a good 8 more showing up as well.

40k is growing in our area, but then again everything seems to be growing around here. Except a few specialist games.

Fantasy is clinging, but it's no were around where you think it would be. Something like 6 players. LOTR actually has 2-4 players it seems.

Blood bowl has quite the player base, seems above 10.

Beyond that, I'm not sure.

40K was never huge in my area, just a few small pockets of people that I brought together when I worked at a game store. Fantasy was always bigger. However, 3 40k players quit when they hit college, I got fired from the gaming store for standing up for customers who the owner took preorder money from and then got their product in a year late because he didn't want to order direct from GW to get their stuff or he blew them off for Magic cards, and the other 4 or 5 people left when we did. I tried to continue 40K in an underground group (sounds illegal, lol), but it didn't work out. Then one of the fantasy guys who I talked into 40k discovered Dust Warfare, and I jumped on the Mantic kickstarter. Between our two discoveries, 40k is no longer played, and fantasy has been kicked out too. Now there are only a couple new college kids in town who I've heard play warhammer. 2-4 people in an entire town play warhammer. Ouch.

I would say it stays the same . people from edition before it stay if their armies are still good or quit , because investing in a totaly new army is a very large sum here . New guys do happen but are rather rare . Most of them will stop at 1k maybe more and find out that armies made out of "cool" stuff and starter sets times X are bad .

Last tourney at my FLGS had about 20 people, larger than most before I believe.

So I'd say around here its growing a bit. Or at least, the same people are more interested in playing.

with edition changes upsetting and pleasing players it's a wash really as edition changes normally are, what drives sales for 40k is codexes and models normally with OP Rules thus the man change of 40k to unused models like terminators and artillery and until recently the all but un-used ageis defense line and other battlefield terrains.

I'd say since 40k has created video games consistently with THQ and the conventions are still huge that a large majority of the base is still pleased enough to not really notice an impact. Other games exist but what most of us fail to understand is selling armies is the last ditch effort of 40k players normally most people buy till they are satisfied and retain that army looking for new ones to collect and play now like war machine ect.

Dual/multi players are more common than 1 and dones. I would say 40k is doing just fine with consistent (for GW) updates and changes. For every player mad about a change 2 more come out of hibernation to start playing again or just life reminds them how much they liked the game or concepts.

We wouldn't know other than sales # which honestly isn't a sign of GW's growth i would sooner believe recession and price hike discouragement before i would think anything else about the state of the game.

Seems to be growing locally.

Its definitely growing/re-surging in my area as well. 6th edition has done nothing but help that, in my experience.

 English Assassin wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 English Assassin wrote:
Accounting to the figures collated by distributors Diamond, the hobby games sector grew in volume by at least 20% in 2011, and is projected to do the same this year, recession or no recession. That excuse, like GW's declining sales figures, looks ever more pathetic in that light.

 Ailaros wrote:
As for other games, yeah, a lot of 40k players over the years have gone over to a large number of indie games that pop up. And then they fail. And then the players are back to playing 40k.

Malifaux is hot right now, but in 5 years nearly everyone who is playing Malifaux right now will be back in 40k. Just like confrontation, just like AT49, just like another dozen games you haven't heard of before, despite the fact that they were "better" games that were going to "beat" 40k.

You've made this smug, complacent argument before; last time you did I pointed out that Privateer and Wyrd have both been around for a decade, and - though their end-of-year accounts are not public - if their expanding release schedules and willingness to invest in plastics are any gauge, are enjoying positive growth during this boom.

I don't anticipate either of them overtaking GW within the foreseeable future, but don't be so blinkered as to pretend that they are not facing genuine competition, particularly given that Warmachine recently overtook Warhammer Fantasy as the second most popular wargame sold through hobby stores.

Does GW spilt the figures for 40k WHFB and LOTR sales in their reports? If not why are you assuming its 40k that is losing players?, and why assume it is losing players rather then not gaining new ones, you can still play 40k without buying or at least limiting your buying compared to previous years, assuming that a flat or slightly negative revenue stream means anything in detail without having the facts there to back them up is pointless, imo. Feel free to point out any facts you have?

Firstly, my point was to refute the "hurr, durr, recession" argument, not to make any very specific claims about 40k's popularity. However, in light of industry figures that sales in the gaming sector are rising, while GW's sales are shrinking, and in the absence of any reason to assume Fantasy's or LotR's sales have declined more steeply than 40k's, logic dictates that we presume them to be proportionately distributed across each line, and that 40k's sales will as such have declined. If you wish to contend that 40k is bucking GW's overall trend of falling sales (and by extension, lessening popularity), then the burden of proof is on you.

Sorry fella but you havent gave any proof so asking for burden of proof from me is moot, just have given just guess work i am not a Geedub fan boy at all and support them by buying 40k stuff but hardly directly (only termnius ultra sprue and paints) nearly everything else has been from independent retailers. There is no way to say 40k has fallen in sales, you can guess all you want but by insisting on that fact comes across as a GW hater. Just the way it seems to me.

From what I have seen there have been more people picking up 6th ed that used to play before then there have been players selling armies limited exposure from 2 clubs in different areas. Also the Ltd Ed box sold rather well seeing as retailers and GW run out of stock a lot quicker then intended.

6th edition 40K is alive and well in my area. A huge boon from 5th. It's still still extremely early. The box set was released just last week! Hello...?!

MarkyMark wrote:
Sorry fella but you havent gave any proof so asking for burden of proof from me is moot, just have given just guess work i am not a Geedub fan boy at all and support them by buying 40k stuff but hardly directly (only termnius ultra sprue and paints) nearly everything else has been from independent retailers. There is no way to say 40k has fallen in sales, you can guess all you want but by insisting on that fact comes across as a GW hater. Just the way it seems to me.

From what I have seen there have been more people picking up 6th ed that used to play before then there have been players selling armies limited exposure from 2 clubs in different areas. Also the Ltd Ed box sold rather well seeing as retailers and GW run out of stock a lot quicker then intended.

So... you either didn't read my post, or didn't understand it, much as you don't seem to comprehend quite what 'moot' in this context means. I'll charitably assume the latter, and reiterate (that means to say something again, by the way).

We know that GW's overall sales volumes have declined continually since about 2005. We know this because they are obliged to publish annual financial reports. Since we have no more detailed data on how this decline has been distrubuted between their product lines, the balance of probabilities is that it has been distributed evenly, since to so conclude requires no additional assumptions. If you wish to posit a more complicated scenario, for instance that that Warhammer has lost many more sales and 40k none, the onus is on you to provide grounds on which to base that more complex assumption.

Moot point, your not giving any proof as to 40k sales declining to the extent they are losing players, so yes its a moot point to put the burden of proof on me as you havent supplied any yourself. You can talk about your logic and probabiities all you want but the logic is you do not know the exact figures for the sales of 40k LOTR WHFB and very other GW line it is not logic to assume anything.


And your right what you say you need nothing else to assume something, and I think I mentioned the old saying before and I'll say again, assumption is the mother of all.....

Granted 40k sales may of declined but with no exact figures its a pointless arguement, a internet arguement maybe.

There is no onus on me to prove WHFB has lost sales when you cant back up what you are arguing

< Taken by the void dragon. >

MarkyMark wrote:
Moot point, your not giving any proof as to 40k sales declining to the extent they are losing players, so yes its a moot point to put the burden of proof on me as you havent supplied any yourself. You can talk about your logic and probabiities all you want but the logic is you do not know the exact figures for the sales of 40k LOTR WHFB and very other GW line it is not logic to assume anything.


And your right what you say you need nothing else to assume something, and I think I mentioned the old saying before and I'll say again, assumption is the mother of all.....

Granted 40k sales may of declined but with no exact figures its a pointless arguement, a internet arguement maybe.

There is no onus on me to prove WHFB has lost sales when you cant back up what you are arguing

So in other words... no, you didn't understand.

Just on the Limited edition Dark Vengeance.


You can buy 5 at a time from GW online in NZ if you like. I doubt they will run out of stock any time soon.

Were numbers released as to how many Limited Edition's were manufactured? Not saying they would do it, but it isn't exactly unheard of for a company to "falsify" the success of something by only printing a small amount in comparison to earlier releases. (Or holding back X amount of units which at a later date magically appear and become available). Say there is a total of 10,000 40k players worldwide, if you print 100 Limited Editions, then its pretty much going to be a 110% guarantee that you will succeed. (Unless its an obvious rip off). Also by adding "Limited Edition" you can tap into a person's brain to make them think they are 'special'. I can't count how many times pretty words like that have sucked me or people I know in. "Sale" can also drive you into a buying frenzy.

If they did do something like that though, its a good thing to show the "investors" eh. But it wouldn't make them the first, they won't be the last and other companies are bound to do the same.

Strange, you cant buy any on uk GW site and havent been able to for at least a week, most of the independent retailers sold out within a few days

MarkyMark wrote:
Strange, you cant buy any on uk GW site and havent been able to for at least a week, most of the independent retailers sold out within a few days

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1700019a

Talking about the Ltd Ed Phantom, of course you can buy the standard edition

40k is and will continue to be very big. Even though many are disheartened with the 6E rules, 40k will go on and likely still be top dog in most groups. However, I have noticed an explosion in the popularity of other games that 5 years ago either didn't exist or were niche to the extreme, meaning 40k has a smaller market share and some more competition, so where people may previously have started another 40k army, they may start a new game instead.

I personally have started 3 or 4 other games for the same cost as another 40k army in the last year or so, so my 40k spending has gone drastically down.

From my experience, it's been growing the past couple of years....but Warmachine has been growing waaaaaay faster since the games are easier/faster and the models are 1/3 the price of 40K models most of the time.

I know a guy who has about 10 different 40k armies. He's not focusing on it any more because he thinks it's too unbalanced and too expensive. Instead, he's focusing on Warmahordes.

Good for Privateer Press. I hope they don't screw up royally.

I think towards the end of 5th people were sick of the game. They drifted off into the warp of other "neat" games.
In the NH gaming scene i've noticed everyone's fired up and excited about 6th but i haven't noticed an increase/decrease in players. then again i've only been to the "bigger" game stores in the state.