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 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
[


I love how they all want their student loans absolved. Please. No one forced you to take out $120,000 so that you could get your B.S. in Classical Literature from Harvard. Suck it up, buttercup.

I agree, sure there are a few things i agree with them, but yeah, there are ways of going through school w/o incuring dept, like what i do, fill out financial aid, and i got up to nothing for my units.
And then there are scholorships or grants.

The alternatives are fairly unealistic given how ludicrous modern schooling costs. It's cost has risen so far beyond inflation for so long that it's becoming untenable for people who aren't already wealthy to afford. The high paying work that college used to ensure no longer really exists, but the American job market requires degrees for almost anything that's going to pay above 30k. The whole system is starting to go the way of the American healthcare system.

I don't disagree that college/University costs are high.

I do disagree that people's debts should be absolved/forgiven/erased.

If you (you being a generic Occupy person, not anyone in this thread) took out the loan, that's your debt, pay it. You could have gone to a less expensive community college. Also, if you think banks are faltering now, make them "eat" all of those student loans...

Predatory lending isn't something that should be encouraged.

Agreed.

What does that have to do with student loans?

You contradict yourself then.

 kronk wrote:
Agreed.

What does that have to do with student loans?

Quite a bit given the recruitment and loan structures that many colleges use. I for one was lied to heavily about what my college major did or didn't have. I ended up leaving the school incredibly bitter and resentful for it all. I'll owe people for the next twenty to thirty years of my life for a faux education taught by people who shouldn't have been trusted to be out in the rain without drowning. A functioning educational system would have had structures in place to prevent this from happening and wouldn't incentivise it in the first place. I for one want my student loans absolved and I've considered suing the university. I can identify with a lot of the occupy movements views in regard to the education system, American higher education students pay an order of magnitude more than in competing countries and the educations aren't better.

The personal responsibility argument only works when the system itself isn't broken.

 kronk wrote:
Agreed.

What does that have to do with student loans?

Kronk... those students have a "point" to certain degree...

When I was in school... from the time my Freshman year till I graduated, the cost of tuition and fees more than doubled... and as I understand it, that was the norm.

I think part of the issue is that most students don't really know what they want to do and yet they go to these schools without fully understanding what happens afterwards (the debt).

Not saying we should automatically absolve the debt... just saying that the current system is bad.

I disagree with almost all of Rick Santorum's positions, often profoundly, but I do agree with him that we drastically over-emphasize the necessity of a college education in this country. Most grads aren't in jobs that require their degree as anything other than a box to be checked by someone in HR when looking at the resume.

I, for example, probably would have made more money over my lifetime if I hadn't gone to college and then looked at the military. If I'd joined up, done a moderate amount of snake-eating, GI Bill'd my way through school, and then made $200K a year as a twenty-six year-old doing contract work for the government overseas, I'd...well, I'd likely have blown it all by now, but money's for spending.

College isn't the right answer for everybody, and it's an unnecessary one for an awful lot.

College isn't the right answer for everybody, and it's an unnecessary one for an awful lot.

Tell that to the modern job market which requires degree holding professionals, even when the degree is unrelated. There is a significant disconnect between supply, demand, and actual need.

And yet you can still get an associates degree or a full degree from a community college for much less than a private school or most state schools.

"requires degree holding professionals"

Well, yeah. Professional jobs generally SHOULD require a degree. Accountant, Nursing, IT Specialist, Engineer, and so on.

What specific professional job are you saying shouldn't require one?

Ahahahah, that's funny, you think an associates degree is anything more than expensive toilet paper.

 Melissia wrote:
Predatory lending isn't something that should be encouraged.

In Melissia's world anything you don't want to pay back is predatory lending.

 Melissia wrote:
Ahahahah, that's funny, you think an associates degree is anything more than expensive toilet paper.

I know you're just trolling, but if an Associate's degree gets you the job you want I'd say it was worth the effort.

 whembly wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Agreed.

What does that have to do with student loans?

Kronk... those students have a "point" to certain degree...

When I was in school... from the time my Freshman year till I graduated, the cost of tuition and fees more than doubled... and as I understand it, that was the norm.

I think part of the issue is that most students don't really know what they want to do and yet they go to these schools without fully understanding what happens afterwards (the debt).

Not saying we should automatically absolve the debt... just saying that the current system is bad.

College tuition is a serious issue. The issue is college tuition growth though not loans.
One could make an excellent argument about colleges colluding to price fix.


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 Seaward wrote:
I disagree with almost all of Rick Santorum's positions, often profoundly, but I do agree with him that we drastically over-emphasize the necessity of a college education in this country. Most grads aren't in jobs that require their degree as anything other than a box to be checked by someone in HR when looking at the resume.

I, for example, probably would have made more money over my lifetime if I hadn't gone to college and then looked at the military. If I'd joined up, done a moderate amount of snake-eating, GI Bill'd my way through school, and then made $200K a year as a twenty-six year-old doing contract work for the government overseas, I'd...well, I'd likely have blown it all by now, but money's for spending.

College isn't the right answer for everybody, and it's an unnecessary one for an awful lot.

Seriously bolstering good trade schools are incredibly needed. Everyone needs education, just not university.

Question coming from someone who'se entire academic world is limited to philosophy&psychology : what's an associate degree?

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Question coming from someone who'se entire academic world is limited to philosophy&psychology : what's an associate degree?

Usually a 2 yr program that takes care of most pre-requisites of a standard 4 yr BA.

Sometime, those 2 yr degree are focused in one particular trade.

Please answer this question from an ignorant foreigner that can't make any sense from your junior / senior shenanigans, but how many years of education do you guys have before graduating from high-school?

13, not including preschool.

 whembly wrote:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Question coming from someone who'se entire academic world is limited to philosophy&psychology : what's an associate degree?

Usually a 2 yr program that takes care of most pre-requisites of a standard 4 yr BA.

Sometime, those 2 yr degree are focused in one particular trade.

Yes its either a stepping stone to university, or its its animal used to train important segments of society: mechanics; nurses; EMTS, etc.


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PhantomViper wrote:
Please answer this question from an ignorant foreigner that can't make any sense from your junior / senior shenanigans, but how many years of education do you guys have before graduating from high-school?

12 years (not counting kindergarten)

 whembly wrote:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Question coming from someone who'se entire academic world is limited to philosophy&psychology : what's an associate degree?

Usually a 2 yr program that takes care of most pre-requisites of a standard 4 yr BA.

Sometime, those 2 yr degree are focused in one particular trade.

Ah, so it's our College! Cool, thanks!

And yet you can still get an associates degree or a full degree from a community college for much less than a private school or most state schools.

I have an associates. It's toilet paper. Not everyone is going to be a medical transcriptionist or a heating repair guy. Not everyone can be. Anyone working in hiring for those fields will tell you that the chance of actually getting one of those jobs with an AS in the field is low. Supply has vastly outstripped demand.

"requires degree holding professionals"

Well, yeah. Professional jobs generally SHOULD require a degree. Accountant, Nursing, IT Specialist, Engineer, and so on.

What specific professional job are you saying shouldn't require one?

Management, but that's increasingly requiring one. The jobs people can do without a degree is becoming totally untrained minimum wage labor. There is no upward mobility in America without a degree. The problem is feeding yourself and a family in a career without a degree is starting to becoming unrealistic. No one runs the company when they started on the saleroom floor anymore, it's a myth.

 kronk wrote:
Agreed.

What does that have to do with student loans?

It isn't some grand conspiracy, but it is common practice in collegiate financial offices to reduce aid to students over the period in which they're enrolled. Especially once they pass that holy barrier of "We will only accept 2 years of transfer credits." Its much like the "introductory rates" used by cable and satellite providers.

And God forbid your school uses a 4 credit system, no one is taking any of those even if the college you are presently attending is is a top 25 institution.

 Monster Rain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ahahahah, that's funny, you think an associates degree is anything more than expensive toilet paper.

I know you're just trolling, but if an Associate's degree gets you the job you want I'd say it was worth the effort.

Check job placement rates at community colleges at some point. You might be underwhelmed.

 ShumaGorath wrote:
The jobs people can do without a degree is becoming totally untrained minimum wage labor. There is no upward mobility in America without a degree.

This is true, and unfortunately it's not because a degree's actually needed to perform a given job, but because a degree's needed to get the interview for the job.

When everyone's told in primary school that they need a degree, and a hell of a lot of them go out and get it, you wind up with more degree-holders. Recruiting "standards" begin to rise, because the applicant pool is more "qualified," and thus a job that would not have required a degree twenty years ago does now.

If you know how to use Windows XP, you're qualified for a hell of a lot of white collar work.

 Frazzled wrote:

College tuition is a serious issue. The issue is college tuition growth though not loans.

Eh, sort of.

The growth of college tuition is the root cause, but much of the reason college tuition has been able to grow is the willingness of lenders to give large amounts of money; which they do because they know borrowers can't default.

I mean, who gives an 18 year old 20k? Or, in my case, 130k?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Seaward wrote:

This is true, and unfortunately it's not because a degree's actually needed to perform a given job, but because a degree's needed to get the interview for the job.

Yes, a thousand times yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

Ah, so it's our College! Cool, thanks!

That's a description that I'm embarrassed to say I never considered.

How many are willing to move for a job though. How many are willing to spend time to get a security clearence. If you play in the field you play to win. You be a Blue Falcon on the rest of your classmate.

 Jihadin wrote:
How many are willing to move for a job though. How many are willing to spend time to get a security clearence. If you play in the field you play to win. You be a Blue Falcon on the rest of your classmate.

Considering a TS/SCI is basically like adding 15% a year to all your future salaries...everybody?

I doubt that many knows about getting a SC. Granted very little probaly even thought about or if they did what it means if added to the resume.

It has more to do with ability than knowledge.

The foot in the door is with resume. How similiar are the resumes when your class graduate and look for a job. You have to make it stand out. Heck even throw in a four year stint with National Guard. Get PLDC under your belt to. An individual has to stand out from amongst the herd. Also be willing to move. I already had job offers from South Dakota before I got extended. Last count was 7 job offers. Starting off 70K (this is South Dakota though and cost of living there is cheap). The ole wife and I seriously looking at South Dakota and there were positions open in DHS there.