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Killjoy00 wrote:
But once again, you don't test for engaged on a model by model basis for the purposes of majority WS and T. The rules for majority WS and T tell you to look at the unit.

A model in a challenge is still part of his unit. If that unit is engaged in combat, then you have to use the majority T and WS when he is attacked.

And a challenege is an exception to the majority rules. So while he is indeed still part of his unit, he and his opponent are only fighting (engaged with) each other.

Except that no expcetion is actually stated in the rules; you are assuming it is in there when it isnt.

RAW you still use the majority T, WS of the unit, not the character. RAI is almost certainly you use the characters stats

Considering they are only in BTB with each other and the rules state to treat that as a separate combat, its pretty clear that you dont use majority.

 don_mondo wrote:


Treat the challenge as a separate combat.

Fragile wrote:
Considering they are only in BTB with each other and the rules state to treat that as a separate combat, its pretty clear that you dont use majority.

People keep saying that you treat it as a separate combat but I keep missing where in the rules it actually says that.

Here's what we do know:

1. It says treat them as if they are only in base to base with each other.

2. They are still part of the same unit. You get FNP from a chaplain and all that goodness.

3. The combat res still applies to the assault resolution.

So there's a lot of evidence that they are NOT a separate combat. They are a small fight, isolated, within the combat. They still count as part of the combat. They still count as part of their units. RaW you have to use majority T and WS rules.

#1, they're only in btb with each other. that makes it a separate combat. Add to that the FAQ about wounds not being able to carry over 9which would happen if it was the same combat).

 don_mondo wrote:
#1, they're only in btb with each other. that makes it a separate combat. Add to that the FAQ about wounds not being able to carry over 9which would happen if it was the same combat).

Theyre stilla member of the unit, however. Nothing alters that.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
#1, they're only in btb with each other. that makes it a separate combat. Add to that the FAQ about wounds not being able to carry over 9which would happen if it was the same combat).

Theyre stilla member of the unit, however. Nothing alters that.

Agreed. But their challenge combat is considered separately from the rest of the unit. So while they will still get FNP, or Furious Charge, or whatever, they are not dragged down (ie made easier to hit by way of majority WS) by the rest of the unit. So Celestine would use her WS 7 for both attack and 'defense', even if attached to a unit of WS 3 Sisters of Battle, meaning a WS 4 SM Sgt would need a 4+ to hit and not a 3+.

Exactly where does "only being in base to base" with a model make you a separate combat?

If so, then any model "only in base to base" could ignore the majority WS and T rules - challenge or not. That is obviously wrong.

It is part of a unit. The rules on majority WS and T are clear what happens when a model is part of a unit with differing WS and T... unless you can cite some rules giving an exception.

So do wounds carry over? If, as you claim, models in a challenge are part of the unit for purposes of the combat, excess wounds would carry over, wouldn't they? Yet we know they don't due to an FAQ. that's why I believe their statement about only in btb with each other means that they are treated as a separate combet. But I can see it's going to take another FAQ before we can all agree on this one way or the other. Cause you're not changing my mind, and it doesn't look like I'm changing yours. So not much more to be said here. later.

 don_mondo wrote:
So do wounds carry over? If, as you claim, models in a challenge are part of the unit for purposes of the combat, excess wounds would carry over, wouldn't they? Yet we know they don't due to an FAQ. that's why I believe their statement about only in btb with each other means that they are treated as a separate combet. But I can see it's going to take another FAQ before we can all agree on this one way or the other. Cause you're not changing my mind, and it doesn't look like I'm changing yours. So not much more to be said here. later.

And, again, the rules dont actually say that

I agree on the intent, I disagree that there are any rules stating what you claim.