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Honestly, Obliterators have always been pants.

They will always be pants until GW stops with the whole "Let's make it look like they're midmutation!" shenanigans.

Midmutation? I get more of a "Oh crap, I dropped the green into the bitz box." vibe from Oblits.

Have to say that I don't think there is a single one of the new Chaos models that I actually like, which is a shame since CSM are the only army I play (whenever I actually play 40K any more anyway ).

I like all of it except the fish faced assault oblits and the much maligned stained glass mothra flyer.

No. You are not alone.

Between Mecha-Godzilla and Mecha-King Ghidorah...I was half expecting the latest White Dwarf to actually be a copy of Tokyo Pop...nope, just the latest bit from GW.

Every release from them I keep hoping more and more that they will just fire the entire design side of GW and stick to licensing their stuff in the big office. Let a competent group like Forge World take over on actually making stuff.

I had high hopes after seeing what was in Dark Vengeance (except for the dread thing... not a fan of that). But the new release is one hell of a disappointment.

Overall, it really reflects the much more 'toyetic' appearance that GW has been pushing. It's not really a sudden thing, GW's been doing this for years, but it's getting to the point where the fisher-priceyness is overcoming the original aesthetic.

I'm not a fan, personally.

My problem with the Helldrake is the lack of a proper tail.

Well, that was my first problem, the second was it looks like wings being glued onto a rubber chicken.

I've never liked the whole 'stretched faces' look in general, to be honest.

I do however, not mind the chaos rhino monster dudes, they're fairly neat and chaos-ey.

I was collecting a Chaos army with plans to complete it once the new Chaos released. After looking at new sculpts, I'm now selling the models I got, even though it is already almost 75% of a playable army, most of it painted.

I liked to think of Chaos as of something not super evil and deformed, but rather a bunch of rogue space marines who would rather fight for their own causes than blindly obey the Emperor. Which of course is not true for older chaos legions, but newer warbands could be this way. The new art direction completely denies me this view, so I see no point in collecting Chaos anymore.

That being said, I wouldn't say it's that bad by itself. Personally I only like the Cultists though.

Gnawer wrote:
I was collecting a Chaos army with plans to complete it once the new Chaos released. After looking at new sculpts, I'm now selling the models I got, even though it is already almost 75% of a playable army, most of it painted.

I liked to think of Chaos as of something not super evil and deformed, but rather a bunch of rogue space marines who would rather fight for their own causes than blindly obey the Emperor. Which of course is not true for older chaos legions, but newer warbands could be this way. The new art direction completely denies me this view, so I see no point in collecting Chaos anymore.

This is something which is quite interesting.

Many people were saying the exact opposite with the last book. But the truth is?

Chaos can be both. There's nothing stopping you from having "rogue" Astartes (outside of it being a bit of a popular trope--"Astartes go rogue, fight for themselves! No more Emperor!") and nothing to stop someone else from having the super evil and deformed shenanigans.

Well, if the new trend continues we can make a good guess as to what's in store for Noise Marines:

Gnawer wrote:
I was collecting a Chaos army with plans to complete it once the new Chaos released. After looking at new sculpts, I'm now selling the models I got, even though it is already almost 75% of a playable army, most of it painted.

I liked to think of Chaos as of something not super evil and deformed, but rather a bunch of rogue space marines who would rather fight for their own causes than blindly obey the Emperor. Which of course is not true for older chaos legions, but newer warbands could be this way. The new art direction completely denies me this view, so I see no point in collecting Chaos anymore. .

The much-despises 4th edition codex more or less went this direction. This is interesting as it's a fairly minority opinion. Most like Chaos Space Marines to be....Chaos Space Marines with renegades as a footnote possibility.

Plus your CSM army can still indeed be renegades. The Red Corsairs and Night Lords are examples of factions given attention in the recent codex which are still more or less what you describe. Particularly the Red Corsairs as the Night Lords lack an overall cohesive leadership.

Many people were saying the exact opposite with the last book.

Which is only natural, because it's not about which style is better, but about a sudden change in a general view of the army.

Same thing recently happened with Necrons. I liked Necrons in 3 and 4 ed, because they were evil zombie robots. Then they became some kind of metal egyptians. And it was like, what's that supposed to mean, give me my zombie robots back. Ok, I got around that by filing off the excessive decorations, not reading the new fluff, and pretending they are still robots. Still, there's no way to completely ignore the new units and their style. Same with Chaos. Only now it's impossible to file all that stuff off, it's like 90% of the model. It's easier to just start over with a new army, maybe even chaos one, but with new concept based on modern models.

Gnawer wrote:
I was collecting a Chaos army with plans to complete it once the new Chaos released. After looking at new sculpts, I'm now selling the models I got, even though it is already almost 75% of a playable army, most of it painted.

I liked to think of Chaos as of something not super evil and deformed, but rather a bunch of rogue space marines who would rather fight for their own causes than blindly obey the Emperor. Which of course is not true for older chaos legions, but newer warbands could be this way. The new art direction completely denies me this view, so I see no point in collecting Chaos anymore.

That being said, I wouldn't say it's that bad by itself. Personally I only like the Cultists though.

Conveniently, your bolded statement is why Chaos has sucked for the past 5 years. Thanks goodness we're done with this crap, because that's not Chaos.
While true Chaos players move onto the next codex, you should still keep playing with your bland, watered down Gavdex. Alternatively, if you want to play "renegades", go use a counts-as for a Space Marine codex since that's more what they'll be able to offer you to be honest.

However I should note that I like the new CSM art direction in term of the Chosen, Cultists, and Helbrute. Aka Dark Vengeance Chaos. I don't care for the dragon or the chaos zoids, though the Raptors do have some potential.

Also I looked forward to seeing your stuff on eBay!

I, on the most part, really like the CSMs, which is good because I do plan on collecting them at some point (well, my uncle gave me roughly 2k pts of them, so I figured I may as well expand). In particular, I love the Forgefeind and the Warpsmith.

I do have to agree though, that the Heldrake is pretty more. I mean, it is quite cool and has a strong impression, but I don't like how it's all covered in that 'CSM-y metal', it's just as if no thought has gone into it. If I ever end up starting a CSM army, and including one, I'll probably do a conversion from a Dark Elf Dragon or something, I think the Heldrake should be more fleshy, like half warped flesh, half metal, merged and fused together.

I don't really like the new art direction either :/
The art style for 4th and 5th ed was awesome imo, I love it. The one thing I hate most about this is the new raptors. They look absolutely HORRID, I loved the old ones though.

Gnawer wrote:
I liked to think of Chaos as of something not super evil and deformed, but rather a bunch of rogue space marines who would rather fight for their own causes than blindly obey the Emperor.

I completely agree with this, I thought I was the only one.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

Gnawer wrote:
I was collecting a Chaos army with plans to complete it once the new Chaos released. After looking at new sculpts, I'm now selling the models I got, even though it is already almost 75% of a playable army, most of it painted.

I liked to think of Chaos as of something not super evil and deformed, but rather a bunch of rogue space marines who would rather fight for their own causes than blindly obey the Emperor. Which of course is not true for older chaos legions, but newer warbands could be this way. The new art direction completely denies me this view, so I see no point in collecting Chaos anymore.

That being said, I wouldn't say it's that bad by itself. Personally I only like the Cultists though.

Conveniently, your bolded statement is why Chaos has sucked for the past 5 years. Thanks goodness we're done with this crap, because that's not Chaos.
While true Chaos players move onto the next codex, you should still keep playing with your bland, watered down Gavdex. Alternatively, if you want to play "renegades", go use a counts-as for a Space Marine codex since that's more what they'll be able to offer you to be honest.

I guess that makes me a Renegade Chaos player as well. I loathed the Slaves To Darkness/The Lost and The Damned-era renegades for being the John Blanche-inspired melted and deformed mistakes that they were. The 2nd Ed. Chaos Marines were an improvement, but in my eyes hindered by the "Got Gun? Paint It Red!" attitude of the era. It wasn't until the Marines got a resculpt that brought them closer to Loyalists that I finally thought they were worth building an army of. Now that they seem to be drifting back to the dark old days, I'm going to put them on the back burner and work on something else.

I would like to see images of some of the new models, such as the Daemon Engines/Fiends and Dragon-flyer-thing next to the existing Chaos range, such as Defilers, Predators and Dreadnoughts; as I can't imagine many of the new and old models look right alongside each other.

The Chosen Champion and somewhat the Raptors are the only new models I like. I feel like much of the new stuff looks like toys, rather than Daemonic Engines of destruction, produced by the biggest galactic badasses and darkest recesses of human emotion.

I would much rather they went in the direction of the FW Decimator, than the new toys:

I'm not a fan of the new art direction either. They've overused on the detail (i.e. too many symbols and gibbly faces). The new vehicle kits look a bit gimicky IMO. I wouldn't say this issue is only limited to Chaos as some of the recent Loyalist Marine kits have way too many purity seals (to the point where they look like they robbed an office supplies store). That being said, some of the new models really do look like Power Ranger villains.

Personally I was hoping to see some kits that more of an emphasis on their classic archaic, riveted look. Kits that look like the Decimator or the plastic Chaos Lord kit is personally what I was hoping to see.

As an extreme converter, I don't really mind one way or another, since I tend to want complete control over a model's appearance in any case. That being said the only new models I am enthusiastic about and would use 'as is' are cultists, and even with them I don't think they are perfect.... the other kits might give a few good bits, that's about it.

Aside from that, I am very happy with the 'rules art' so far... in other words, less about space marine vehicles with spikes and more about evil possessed walkers and flyers. Just can't wait to get the release so I can figure out the proper dimensions for everything and figure out my list and what I want to build.

As for moving away from space marine renegades... very happy with that as well. If you want to do that get a space wolf or blood angels 'dex, they make great renegades lists... and you can have all the toys like land speeders that renegades should have. Not to mention the new codex should also be able to do that to some extent.

Just because the latest flyer/megazord looks like gak doesn't mean you're screwed and should sell your army... wait and see if the havocs with flakk missiles are viable, or something with the quad gun, or just get some guard allies... there are a thousand things you can do.

I think the misconception is thinking its a new direction. The aesthetics of all the new models have a basis in pre-existing models. The mauler-fiend is mostly a much larger Juggernaught. The dragon is conceptually based off epic models, updated with the aesthetics of Forgeworld's flyers. If you don't like the aesthetics its really a case of having not paid attention to what was a part of the full span of Chaos.

The chaos marines have been sketched similar to these new minis since rogue trader and GW is finally sculpting miniatures that live upto those concepts.

The depiction of chaos as Space marines + Spikes is stupid... a stupid depiction that GW was right to get away from. Its moving closer to the Rogue Trader depiction, where these Chaos Marines were mortals becoming more and more a part of their armor... daemonic in appearance as they were exposed to the warp. These vehicles represent something much more consistent with the notions that daemon engines take many forms and are the results of many different attempts to produce daemon warmachines through heretical research.

The models are more distinctive and bring an organic quality. It represents a more dynamic existence for chaos and not one trapped in the 10,000 year ago era that they failed to represent aesthetically.

I've played Chaos since the start of 3rd... I like these "changes" that has put the stagnant interpretation of Chaos back on course to being distinctive and not just loyalist marines with less.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
As somebody who liked what Chaos looked like in the original Rogue Trader era I like them

(Well except the obliterators, they need paper bags on their heads)

Ditto. I really like the old school style on the new models.

Also, the FW Decimator is even more of a "copy and paste from warmachine" style than the new models are. Those are some pretty bangin' shoulder pads and smoke stacks there.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
As somebody who liked what Chaos looked like in the original Rogue Trader era I like them

(Well except the obliterators, they need paper bags on their heads)

Obliterators are now some of the weakest models in the range. It isn't just their sculpts either. GW's retconned their background a bit... they started off as an explanation of what happened to Chaos' techmarines but now that we have warpsmiths, they're kinda just fugly specialized terminators. I really hope that they do something with new miniatures for them; right now that they're concepts pulled out from under them, which gives GW the opportunity to reimagine them. Maybe one day GW will give them a plastic kit and make them look like mini-Hellbrutes.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think the misconception is thinking its a new direction. The aesthetics of all the new models have a basis in pre-existing models. The mauler-fiend is mostly a much larger Juggernaught. The dragon is conceptually based off epic models, updated with the aesthetics of Forgeworld's flyers. If you don't like the aesthetics its really a case of having not paid attention to what was a part of the full span of Chaos.

....The models are more distinctive and bring an organic quality. It represents a more dynamic existence for chaos and not one trapped in the 10,000 year ago era that they failed to represent aesthetically.

Did you ever see many Juggers running around? It worked fine for the model but it was a bit overwrought. Expanding that kind of excessive detail just doesn't work on the larger scale because they're missing the point of using the negative space on the model to emphasize the details and they didn't really try to work better detail, just more of the same. The more I look at them the more confused I feel about all of the daemon engines that just got released.

I still love the direction they're going with the base troops though. The DV set was a great example of how things could change for the better. I like the Hellbrute. I know I'm in the minority but I really hated the last set of Dreads. I collected some of the older ones that looked more like the daemon engines should to make up for it, but I can't bring myself to take a Dremmel to them and mod them out since they'll never be back... Plasma Cannons and CC for me.

I agree the direction they're going is better, but also that they're just not doing enough. The old traitor legion should be getting more love since they're kinda the basis of the whole deal. And the cult legions should be getting new sculpts and be differentiated more. I think GW could increase sales to Chaos players by making the cults and traitors more unique in relation to one another. Besides, the Night Lords could really use new helmets... It does seem that I'm one of the few who wants to collect every flavor of Chaos though, so maybe it's just my personal dream.

See, I really like the Warpsmith and anything vaguely Mechanicus/Techmarine-looking. The excessive overload of cables, wires, servos, and techy-bits just adds to the appeal.

I echo others' opinions on the Dragon and the Brute. It looks like a mecha-villain from a cheesy 80's/90's Saturday Morning cartoon.

After the great art direction of the Dark Eldar and Tyranid lines (and also the Eldar Fire Prism), it's disappointing that they took Chaos in this awkward direction. It seems that Space Marine armies in general are cursed to silliness from the Stormhawk to the Dreadknight to the Storm Talon to now this. Even the recent Forge World's Erectus Overcompensatus-pattern Land Raider looks uninspired and silly.
Warhammer 40k doesn't always have to be serious,

I don't much care for the style, but a big part of that is that it seems that they have chosen the Chaos line to really embody the style that GW has been developing for some time. It so happens to be a style I really don't like. A sort-of baroque, highly adorned, ornate style that seems at once very old, but also, to me in any case, very 1990's.

In a very real way it reminds me of nothing so much as the child-like certainty that things are only made better by being covered with glitter and pictures and brick-a-bract. It is, however, very much in keeping with the overall theme of a lot of GW's backstory and aesthetic. It's an old, stagnant universe, where things haven't gotten better, just gotten more crusty with stuff. The Chaos line simply takes that idea and turns it up to 11.

I think people are reading too much into the "Renegade" aspect of some people's complaints, including mine.

I hated the Gavdex for gutting my chaos marines. I have a Night Lords army that sticks fairly closely to how I imagine the NL fighting and surviving, pretty much in line with ADB's Soul Hunter trilogy. So I don't have daemons, I don't want daemon engines, I don't need Oblits.

What I do want, and I am surprised GW hasn't gone in this direction at all, is CSM as a more logical outgrowth of the survivors of the Heresy. With the HH books and FW's old marks of armor and Contemptor dreads doing so well, it seems insane not to incorporate more of that imagery. That would have been killer for probably the majority of CSM players.

So while I dislike the Fisher-Price models, I think the concept of the various daemon engines is viable, but only as a part of the codex, not the entire heavy support section. Yes, include a giant Forgefiend for the Iron Warriors and Word Bearers players, but also put out a good-looking plastic dreadnought kit for everyone else. Put in a Hell Blade-like close air support option so we all aren't stuck with a dragon, for crying out loud.

Bring back the diversity of chaos without making it goofy, toylike, or pigeon-holed into one previously obscured facet of CSM armies. I think this is a real concern, as it's the same problem that happened with the 4th edition codex. The focus suddenly shifted to Renegade chapters and everything else got the shaft. What I really don't want is another dramatic shift in the opposite direction, where all of the new/best options are so heavily warped that they're unrecognizable as marines (and ugly kits to boot).

I'm ok with the style, I just wish they had applied it accross the entire range. I was so stoked when I saw the DV Chosen & Chaos Lord. Then I started seeing the other new sculpts & was pretty ok w/ them, especially the Warpsmith & the Aspiring Champion. Even the Heldrake is growing on me (I do wish it had some sort of tail though). The daemon-engines are pretty cool, I think the Forgefiend with the twin Hades Autocannons is boss. However, when I set these models down next to my 10 year old Thousand Sons/Berzerkers & my 5 year old vanilla CSM, they are going to look incredibly out of place.

Personally, even though I do like the majority of the new models, I'm pretty dissapointed in this release. When you look @ what DE/'Crons got in their new codecies, I feel we CSM players got a bit shafted.

If you're going to so drastically change the direction of the way the whole army 'feels', then you also need to change the way the whole army looks to match.

~Vryce

I'm finding that GWs new models are pretty good for the most part when they're doing re-sculpts of old concepts e.g. Black Knights, Chaos Raptors, Tomb Guard, Necron Immortals, Plague Bearers, Dark Eldar Talos etc.

They've started to come unstuck when they try to do something new e.g. Coven Throne, Helldrake, Luminark/Hurricanum, Storm Talon, Dreadknight etc etc. It's like the designers believe that because they can sculpt anything these days, they can go nuts with the concept work which is then reflected in the final model... and not in a good way.

Less is more and all that...

 Lordhat wrote:


RE: The new Raptors. Those models are awesome, especially since the dumb winglets on the Jump Packs are optional. One complaint though: Who ever looked at a chainsword and thought "Man that's cool, but it just needs a conventional knife or axe blade on the tip, THAT will make it vicious and way more killy." It's a fething chainsaw. A fething chainsaw that has teeth with a monomolecular edge.

/rant

You can stab with that new chainsaw now!

Im with OP on the Toy bit, the helturky with the creepy exhaust vent as its rear is by far one of the worst models gw has made and it reminds me of an pterosaur toy I had as a kid (maybe I can find it and make a conversion of it).

The mutilators faces as many already said looks like crap (or more like the mutilators are taking a crap)...

Then I kinda think the Forge/Mauler-fiends are ok but still they got that Toy feeling as OP pointed out.

Havoc's made into failcast is just pure insanity since they REALLY need an upgrade. (for less $ you can get a devestator squad = get more - pay less).