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It started already just by the video Whembly posted. Those that didn't see the debate is going to wonder if Biden was serious about the debate and/or the issues. Those individuals that have yet been swayed. Feel for you all in the battleground states
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I'm sure PBS can sustain itself from sales of Elmoe if the subsidy is cut off.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
"SLAP" ONE HA HA HAA
"SLAP" TWO HA HA HAA
"SLAP" THREE HA HA HAA
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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CNN Polls are generally trash, as most polls are. CBS had a big victory for Biden--and from what I saw he landed some pretty big
good body blows. His body language should have been more restrained but that's Biden.
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In retrospect, Biden's Smirks and laughing were quite disrespectful. I have no respect for Ryan, but he still should've restrained himself. Obama did it too.
There was this overwhelming feeling of "don't tell these guys about ___. They've known the ins and outs of it for four years, and probably know so much classified information or detailed information that it would make your head spin"... I noticed that in both debates.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/12 04:37:47
True, but you never know when another Kennedy/Nixon debate might happen. When Nixon ran against Humprey, and later, McGovern, he stayed away from debating in a presidential election like the plague.
It was a lot faster for sure. One moment it started, te nest thing you know the moderator is telling everyone to keep it short because the debate's over.
It seemed to be the opposite of the debate last week, Biden was too aggressive for my tastes(like Ronmey last week) and I feel that he "won" the debate due to being much more aggressive.
I did like the Moderator however. Pretty much right after the Libya exchange I knew was going to enjoy this debate more than last week.
I think it's a little silly to think if someone wins or loses a debate because X News Network says they did.
They're very well invested in making the election look down to the wire, otherwise the news won't be as riveting and they won't get as many viewers.
Biden and Obama were complete opposites, Biden was too over the top (but rightly so, given the ridiculousness coming out of Ryan's mouth), whereas Obama was far too quiet and passive.
True, but you never know when another Kennedy/Nixon debate might happen. When Nixon ran against Humprey, and later, McGovern, he stayed away from debating in a presidential election like the plague.
But those are Presidential debates, not Vice Presidential debates. I'll wager that there's never been a VP debate that has decided an election.
I mean, even if you look at 2008 when Palin got trounced you only see a 3 point swing. And I'd guess that 5 point swing in 2000 stemmed from the fact that Joe Lieberman had a reputation as the crazy old man in the corner. Of course, all of this is divorced from polling trends during the relevant years so its hard to say, based only on the Gallup article, whether or not there was any effect at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/12 04:55:26
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I was going more with your second statement about debates not swinging elections. But this has been a strange campaign year, with the outcome seemingly hanging on a knife edge.
It seems like anything could tip it.
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No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
There was this overwhelming feeling of "don't tell these guys about ___. They've known the ins and outs of it for four years, and probably know so much classified information or detailed information that it would make your head spin"... I noticed that in both debates.
Part of it is that the defense portion of the Romney platform is grounded in populism, which is good debate fodder because its difficult to refute without a cerebral response; primarily because a cerebral response entails going into details which are even less familiar to most Americans than tax policy.
Ryan's line about the Iranian Green Movement, al-Assad, and the promotion of "peace, democracy, and individual rights" was particularly amusing in its naivete.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/12 05:11:54
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
RYAN: We should have spoken out right away when the green revolution was up and starting; when the mullahs in Iran were attacking their people. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people. We should always stand up for peace, for democracy, for individual rights.
And we should not be imposing these devastating defense cuts, because what that does when we equivocate on our values, when we show that we're cutting down on defense, it makes us more weak. It projects weakness. And when we look weak, our adversaries are much more willing to test us. They're more brazen in their attacks, and are allies are less willing to...
BIDEN: With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey.
Not sure what Biden called Malarky on.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
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Ryan's comments on embassy security, the notion that the attack in Benghazi was clearly a terrorist attack, and Ryan's general attack on Obama's foreign policy.
Personally, I always love it when a politician claims that defense cuts make us look weak given the global distribution of military expenditure.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Don't Romney/Ryan plan on increasing defence expenditure?
In all fairness that seems to go against logic when you want to decrease budget deficits.
On the other had a lot of R&D comes out of military projects, and even NASA would get a bigger cut of the budget if it went through.
How exactly do you cut taxes for everyone, but increase military spending without cutting into programs like health and welfare programs that actually help people? Closing these aformentioned loopholes couldn't account for that much.
How exactly do you cut taxes for everyone, but increase military spending without cutting into programs like health and welfare programs that actually help people?
You don't, and that's actually what they want to do.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
You stay calm, they say you looked bored, detached, sleepy. You get excited, you're unhinged. /shrug
There is no point in watching the debates. They are literally meaningless; since all they ever do is repeat the same points over again. It's the same reason that the news always shoots footage they won't use of Air Force One/Marine One taking off after a scheduled press conference; no one expects anything interesting to happen but they want to make sure they don't miss it if someone's pants fall down or something. The only reason I came to this thread was for useful insights, but sadly this thread is kind of a mirror of that same phenomenon. It's totally predictable which posters are going to say "who the winner was".
Piston Honda wrote:thought Biden was going to get embarrassed. He actually did well.
As much as the media likes to push the meme of Biden as a lovable buffoon, the fact is the real world is not The Onion and the man has been a professional politicion for 42 years. He knows how to speak in public. Don't buy into their nonsense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/12 06:35:41
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MrScience wrote: Don't Romney/Ryan plan on increasing defence expenditure?
In all fairness that seems to go against logic when you want to decrease budget deficits.
On the other had a lot of R&D comes out of military projects, and even NASA would get a bigger cut of the budget if it went through.
How exactly do you cut taxes for everyone, but increase military spending without cutting into programs like health and welfare programs that actually help people? Closing these aformentioned loopholes couldn't account for that much.
The Military has a very small portion of the Federal budget compared to the monster that is Health and Welfare.
The real answer is that you can't reduce the deficit without hacking into Entitlements. However thats going to be almost impossable to do and no president/congress will ever do it as its political suicide.
Assuming would could reduce Medicare and all the other Entitlements the government spends money on, the Military could gain a massive increase in budget and taxes could stay frozen or be reduced if we simply reduced Medicare, Social Security, and other misc Entitlements.
Entitlements take up approximately 62% of the Federal Budget. The Military takes up 19% and the other 18% goes to discretionary spending.
In other words, its Entitlements that are causing the Deficit. The Military has no money in comparison.
Word for word, what Romney is claiming is not possable. But then again every candidate makes silly promises.
In fact, any time a Presidential Candidate says he will do something with Taxes its a load of crap. The President has no power over Taxes. Thats what Congress does. The President just submits a budget(of which 62% takes a legal act of congress to touch) that Congress then takes and does what they will with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/12 06:42:59
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You stay calm, they say you looked bored, detached, sleepy. You get excited, you're unhinged. /shrug
There is no point in watching the debates. They are literally meaningless; since all they ever do is repeat the same points over again. It's the same reason that the news always shoots footage they won't use of Air Force One/Marine One taking off after a scheduled press conference; no one expects anything interesting to happen but they want to make sure they don't miss it if someone's pants fall down or something. The only reason I came to this thread was for useful insights, but sadly this thread is kind of a mirror of that same phenomenon. It's totally predictable which posters are going to say "who the winner was".
Piston Honda wrote:thought Biden was going to get embarrassed. He actually did well.
As much as the media likes to push the meme of Biden as a lovable buffoon, the fact is the real world is not The Onion and the man has been a professional politicion for 42 years. He knows how to speak in public. Don't buy into their nonsense.
I personally like Biden, if there was anyone I can say who has a heart in DC, it would probably be him. Seems like a nice guy.
But he does say a lot of stupid things. I think it is just a case of he talks faster than he can think.
I'm not sure what all the smiling was last night. Was it planned? a nervous twitch? Did come off a bit arrogant.
Overall he did well, though he was very strong on the social issues (though I am biased in that department), did ok in national defense, but looked weak in economy as was expected.
In football terms, he did better than expected, he ran the ball right at him and won in a low scoring game.
How exactly do you cut taxes for everyone, but increase military spending without cutting into programs like health and welfare programs that actually help people?
You don't, and that's actually what they want to do.
The thing I found amusing was this quote “Here’s the problem, they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, turning Medicare into a piggy bank for Obamacare.” when I was under the impression that the cuts in Medicare that Ryan is criticizing were also a part of the tax plan that he proposed?
Samus_aran115 wrote: How? I'd say he made a fool of himself in too many issues, mainly foreign policy... His conclusion was cheesy too. I felt like I was being sold a car by dracula's nephew
I didn't think to look in there
Well... blame d-usa... I'm almost drunk... (VP debate drinking game!)
Anyhoo...
I'm watching CNN now... they didn't like Biden's performance... more on his conduct rather than his content... he was really disrespectful...
Didn't really notice that... all I saw was "GET OFF MY LAWN KID!"
EDIT 1: May take... On style, Paul Ryan wins. Biden looked unhinged. On substance, however, it was a draw. Both said what they needed to their base.
I recorded it as I was busy on more important things. Caught the last 30 minutes on radio. Biden sounded like he was trying the Gruff Old Man bluff on a kid ( we take great pride in doing that).
Ryan sat there all night poking holes a'la the benefit of hindsight at previous actions regarding foreign policy etc but could not come up with different solutions on ways to go forward. He also totally lost out when the two of them were asked about their own Catholic beliefs and their consideration towards the issue of abortion.
Biden also didn't let Ryan rest on his laurels when he was making up nice sounding numbers for the economy based on a 'free ice cream for everyone' policy.
Remember English, our debates are generally more proper than yours. Thats not neceesarily a good thing Ironical isn't it?
Note: as Frazzled believes the best debate would be a free form dialogue followed by a cage death match, I approve!
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d-usa wrote: Old man is expected to be angry, but I am kind if sad that he didn't even mention Amtrak once...
OK I have to keep score.
Did Biden mention his dead wife or raising his kids?
Did anyone mention Ryan's P90X training?
DId Biden claim to be middle class again?
How many times was "fiscal cliff" mentioned?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/12 11:16:04
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
RYAN: We should have spoken out right away when the green revolution was up and starting; when the mullahs in Iran were attacking their people. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people. We should always stand up for peace, for democracy, for individual rights.
And we should not be imposing these devastating defense cuts, because what that does when we equivocate on our values, when we show that we're cutting down on defense, it makes us more weak. It projects weakness. And when we look weak, our adversaries are much more willing to test us. They're more brazen in their attacks, and are allies are less willing to...
BIDEN: With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey.
What Ryan didn't mention is the fact that House Republicans cut funding for embassy security, as Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) acknowledged this week.
"Absolutely," Chaffetz told CNN when asked whether he voted to lower funds. "Look we have to make priorities and choices in this country. We have … 15,000 contractors in Iraq. We have more than 6,000 contractors, a private army there, for President Obama, in Baghdad. And we’re talking about can we get two dozen or so people into Libya to help protect our forces. When you’re in tough economic times, you have to make difficult choices. You have to prioritize things.”
In fiscal year 2011, lawmakers shaved $128 million off of the administration's request for embassy security funding. House Republicans drained off even more funds in fiscal year 2012 -- cutting back on the department's request by $331 million. As the Washington Post noted, for fiscal year 2013, "the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department’s Worldwide Security Protection program -- well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration."
Vice President Biden also jumped in when it was his time to respond, and pointed out that Ryan's own budget blueprint also cut funds for this very same purpose.
"Number one, this lecture on embassy security -- the congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for," he said. "Number one. So much for the embassy security piece."
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I can;t speak for the effectiveness in VP debates overall, but I seem to recall Adm. Stockdale's performance for Ross Perot really torpedoed his thrid party campaign; and he consistently lost ground afterwards.
I could be way off though.
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Ryan sat there all night poking holes a'la the benefit of hindsight at previous actions regarding foreign policy etc but could not come up with different solutions on ways to go forward. He also totally lost out when the two of them were asked about their own Catholic beliefs and their consideration towards the issue of abortion.
Biden also didn't let Ryan rest on his laurels when he was making up nice sounding numbers for the economy based on a 'free ice cream for everyone' policy.
Remember English, our debates are generally more proper than yours. Thats not neceesarily a good thing Ironical isn't it?
Note: as Frazzled believes the best debate would be a free form dialogue followed by a cage death match, I approve!
I really don't get the allegations of rudeness or aggression, Biden just seemed honest and frustrated with the whitewash and no actual policy proposal from Ryan.
And don't you bloody call me English again sunshine...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/12 12:53:05
Easy E wrote: I can;t speak for the effectiveness in VP debates overall, but I seem to recall Adm. Stockdale's performance for Ross Perot really torpedoed his thrid party campaign; and he consistently lost ground afterwards.
I could be way off though.
True that. Interestingly Stockdale was a family friend. He was always a bit coockoo but in the "crazy uncle that all the kids loved" sort of way.
And don't you bloody call me English again sunshine...
Hey, you're all English to me.
As grandpa would say*:
Vive le France! Vive le Emperor!
Grandpa would have spoken Russian or Polish actually, and it would have been a dirty joke.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/12 13:04:03
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I noticed that in both debates.
