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I never played one set list nor did I rely on units remaining the same from one version of the codex to the next.

Personally, as much as I love the new codex, I'd have enjoyed seeing a thicker one similar to the Space Marine codex...140+ pages instead of 100+. In a codex that seems to benefit fluffy lists, it would have been great to see more attention given to the different traitor legions.

If GW put out a Chaos Codex supplement that had info on the different legions and rules to support what set them out, I'd be all over it. I'm sure that Ork, Tau, and many other players out there would do the same thing for their armies. Just to be able to run fluffier lists.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The boon table would be better to me if with two potential outcomes you didn't lose all your wargear and boon stats gained, losing a SC's wargear, or a kitted out chaos lord who suddenly is a DP doesn't help when he was more killy with gear.

Two potential outcomes out of what? 31?

It fits the fluff that the Chaos Gods won't always give you what you want.

Including 16% of nothing, no matter what you defeat.

That and the risk of spawnhood... and the fact that if you can't place your spawn/demonprince you'll loose both your character and your "reward".

Lets forge a narrative! Your aspiring champion makes a wet farting sound, much like when you let go of a filled balloon, as he/she is sent to eternal damnation in the warp for defeating Calgar.

Guess I should be happy for those who like the codex.

----------------------------
PS. Why didn't GW add the scatter die for all unit movement? It is Chaos after all, right?

[i]Note to self: Read twice, check spelling both times...

Lets forge a narrative! Your aspiring champion makes a wet farting sound, much like when you let go of a filled baloon, as he/she is sent to eternal damnation in the warp for defeating Calgar.

lol and quoted for truth. I realize it is a tad more "fluffy", but all the random rolling gets daunting when you know that every potential challenge is one in which your character/champion could simply dissapeer or go all spawn on everyone. I can see where that could be a fun mechanic, but I don't like it being present in every single game.

Next thing you know, the new Eldar codex will have random roles to determine whether or not your troops fall to temptation whenever fighting chaos or dark eldar. lol

Tycho wrote:
he new Eldar codex will have random roles to determine whether or not your troops fall to temptation whenever fighting chaos or dark eldar. lol

You FOOL!!! They hath seen it! It is destined to come to pass!!!

 MrScience wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The boon table would be better to me if with two potential outcomes you didn't lose all your wargear and boon stats gained, losing a SC's wargear, or a kitted out chaos lord who suddenly is a DP doesn't help when he was more killy with gear.

Two potential outcomes out of what? 31?

It fits the fluff that the Chaos Gods won't always give you what you want.

Becoming a Daemon Prince should be an event that grants power beyond one's dreams..

It should not be considered a nerf to kitted out warriors!

But now Abbadon can finally earn the reward of Spawndom for his repeated failures!

Now I started playing CSM with the 3.5 book, there was a fluffy awesome book there. It was also horribly laid out and very easy to abuse. 4th ed book stripped all the flavour away until you had virtually nothing aside from 'pointy marines'. And it seriously invalidated a large portion of some really cool lists (Alpha Legion Cultists, etc.) as well as wargear options for regular guys (Lightning Claw 'Zerker Champions for example). It felt like a punch in the gut, not for the rules or clarity, but for the lack of real 'chaos' in it. The 6th ed book brings some of that chaos back, I wish they had done a bit more, but it's a step in the right direction.

This isn't to say that the new book is perfect. I think the mandatory challenges should instead be optional, as some might want their CSM to be a bunch of honour-less scum trying to overthrow the Corpse-Emperor without the aid of the Dark Gods (see Night Lords). However, this is a vastly improved status over the previous blandness of the 4th ed book.

Just noticed something. In the Oct WD Phil Kelly discusses the CSM design process and actually refers to them as spikey marines. That's the first I have ever seen a GW guy use a term like this, especially in a negative way. Maybe this is a step in the right direction for everything?

Tycho wrote:

This is pure gold. The armies have changed to better reflect the narrative, but you can't see that so it looks random.

No, they have NOT all been changed to better reflect the narrative. Alpha legion anyone? The only to play that right now is to take a character who isn't even IN the Alpha legion, or to hope for a random dice roll. Yes, SOME armies have been changed to better fit the narrative.

Well that's just because you are crafting the wrong narrative. Didn't you hear? There is no Alpha Legion anymore - only warbanz. And their tactics are indistinguishable from Black Legion. Fluff retcon ftw!

Well that's just because you are crafting the wrong narrative. Didn't you hear? There is no Alpha Legion anymore - only warbanz. And their tactics are indistinguishable from Black Legion. Fluff retcon ftw!

lol! We have matched wits and you have bested me. Well done sir!

Forcemajeure wrote:

Lets forge a narrative! Your aspiring champion makes a wet farting sound, much like when you let go of a filled balloon, as he/she is sent to eternal damnation in the warp for defeating Calgar.

It only stands to reason! Remember that best-selling Black Library book in which the anti-hero protagonist kills a space marine sargeant in an epic battle of lightning claws, but then dies because they were fighting in a crowded corridor and his new Daemon Prince form wouldn't fit! Happened in chapter 3, too, I believe. Chaos is so random it doesn't even wait for proper dramatic structure!

Becomes Daemon Prince, transcends the material world, disappears into the warp temporarily, returns later after the battle.

Done.

I liked the freedom of the old codexes - (3.5) but understand it also meant that no one could instantly know what you were facing.

Dislikes - I run an Emporer's Children based army so there is a mix of likes and dislikes.
1. Like the basic reduction in cost of an EC with sonic blaster.
2. Like the more reasonable cost of a Blastmaster
3. Dislike the loss of Lash which kind of justifies the inclusion of blastmasters.
4. Really dislike the loss of the ability to run EC at the perfect number of 6.

Let's compare 4 ed 6 EC 185
Now 10 EC 227

I also dislike that defilers increased in cost for a false sense of more survivability. Give me the 3.5 ability to demon possess it and give it AV 13/13/11.

Now all that said, it is not perfect but the new codex is okay.
It allows you to take high quality high priced troops down to hoards. You want swiss army knife units? Give them the CCW and VotLW. You want cheap hoards? Go culltists. You want numbers with quality? Go CSM with no additions.
20 CSM with bolters for 270 points. Sure they are not berzerkers but put 2 to 4 units of 20 CSM out there and let an ork scratch his head how he goiing to beat 20 CSM with 30 orks. Or add 60 points and let a marine quake in fear about facing 20 CSM with 2 base attacks and hatred.

The disappointment in the new codex is that cultist armies are almost non-viable. It could have been but they whiffed at the attempt. Why not a cost reduction combined with some limitations on army choices rather than the "unlocking" from elites? The problem with cultist armies is their cost not that they are Troops or Elites. Figure out an army of CSM and you can easily get it to 80 marines for 1850. Do it with cultists and your goiing to have numbers of around 40. I don't care how buff and awesome your plague marines are, I will chose generic 80 CSM over 40 specialiists every time.

So the disappointment of the new codex is not that you can't build anything it is still the fact that there is one build that makes sense and it is rather bland and boring.

The 6th edition codex is not that bad, there's a lot of new units in it and some cool changes too... if only the new cool units where not all new models that we can get at our local GW retailer for a ridiculous price. (coincidence? nope...).

I'm playing Chaos but my old list are all subpar now, so I find myself wanting a Heldrake, a Forgefiend and a Maulerfiend... or 2 of each... aouch !

I'll wait a little bit before spending all that cash on new models. See what work and what doesn't.

Also the lack of new characters is a little bit discouraging, no new additions like in the Space Marine codex...

But overall it did fix some things that were broken (no more DP/lash cheese?) and some power players might not find what they are looking for in this codex.

I have to agree on the lack of flavour, it is gone for the most part (where are the sacred number!) but this is a codex for the Black Legion with elite cultist troops, hopefully they will make cult codex like they did with the Space Marines and their different chapters... Anyway I hope so !

I want my Deathguard back !

At least an infantry/helbrute list is now viable, it's just up to me to add some flavor to it.