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 60mm wrote:
FC supporters often say that people who don't like FC are just whiners, but if that is true, why are there no complaints about plastic?

Want me to put up a picture of my miscast Dark Vengeance Chaos Cultist when I get home? Nice big chunk of shoulder missing. I just don't find it worth complaining about.

 -Loki- wrote:

 60mm wrote:
FC supporters often say that people who don't like FC are just whiners, but if that is true, why are there no complaints about plastic?

Want me to put up a picture of my miscast Dark Vengeance Chaos Cultist when I get home? Nice big chunk of shoulder missing. I just don't find it worth complaining about.

I don't doubt there are plastics with cast issues, but the scale on which it happens it far small enough that it doesn't gain a reputation for it, which is what I meant. I've had minor problems with a few plastic minis, but that was out of hundreds which is perfectly acceptable in my book. No product is going to be 100% problem free on all products sent out, that's reality, but when enough go out with problems that it gains a reputation I'd say it has hit an unacceptable level. I don't complain about my plastic problems because they are pretty rare, although they certainly have happened.

I've only ever bought one finecast model (winged vampire lord) and it was just fine.

Your mileage may vary of course but if you buy from a flgs or GW they will refund/send you another if there is a defect in the one you bought.

I've never had serious trouble with finecast; any miscasts are usually easily corrected between green stuff and spare plastic parts. The only miscast I've ever gotten was Coteaz, his left forearm was missing, so I shaved down a spare Space Marine arm and stuck it in, and it looks as good as new.

I've had several FC and they have been fine, no issues. Even the 25th anniversary marine I bought of someone on here was perfect, and that model was meant to be hilariously hard to find without flaws .

On finecast, I've had some issues. But given how much I absolutely despise metal models (something I work with under sufferance with Infinity), I'm happy with the product.

I had a large airbubble on the shoulder of a Varghulf. A severely miscast first run Venomthrope. An airbubble on the arm of a Broodlord. I've also had 2 fine Zoanthropes and 2 fine Hive Guard (granted, I cut the tongue off one Hive Guard by accident).

The Varghulf was replaced by GW. The Venomthrope I fixed myself as practice (I have a Heirophant that I wanted resin fixing practice for). The Broodlords airbubble was fixed with a simplesingle brushload of liquid green stuff.

That said, there's benefits of finecast for which im willing to accept some flaws. The biggest being the complete lack of a need to pin heavy components. My Hive Guard are stuck firm with a single drop of superglue. Also no more weighted bases. I have Zoanthropes that don't tip over at all during a game. Conversions - I despire having to use a razorsaw and green stuff repair to do a head swap. A simple application of clippers fixes this with Finecast.

The casts have gotten better, but it wasn't hard to improve on the initial run. The simple fact that I'm not working with metal models is enough for me.

 -Loki- wrote:

 60mm wrote:
FC supporters often say that people who don't like FC are just whiners, but if that is true, why are there no complaints about plastic?

Want me to put up a picture of my miscast Dark Vengeance Chaos Cultist when I get home? Nice big chunk of shoulder missing. I just don't find it worth complaining about.

One model out of 48 miniatures was miscast? Dear God, what a travesty. Yes, you should put up a picture of your single miscast Dark Vengeance Chaos Cultist - also, do us a favor and post the other 47 miniatures in that kit that were -not- miscast, so that we can compare. By the way, assuming that was the only model in just -your- kit that was miscast, you are representing a 2% failure rate (1/48=.0208).

Should I take photographs of the 48 miniatures in my plastic Dark Vengeance box to demonstrate that not a single one of them is miscast? Maybe then everyone else can follow suit and we can get a legitimate tally and show how your single miscast plastic model represents an even more miniscule failure rate than it already is in its own box.

Bit pokey there Ted, Loki wasn't being a dick.

Too delicate for my tastes. I can throw my Metal Chaos Dreadnoughts at the wall and drop them and throw them in a flimsy box and not give them a second thought. Not with Finecast

Especially with delicate things, like flying things on little tiny stalks. I would break those in a couple minutes.

I have seen a metal Tyranid big bug explode after being dropped on a ceramic (?) floor, I have doubts.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I have seen a metal Tyranid big bug explode after being dropped on a ceramic (?) floor, I have doubts.

Was it damaged beyond a couple limbs being bent and arms popping off?

Something like that is easily fixed and not really a problem with the metal itself.

If the metal actually shatters we might have a problem.

I assembled my first Finecast model today actually. It was the new Chaos Sorcerer. Check out the model, and all its horrible, horrible flaws!:

There was a tiny bubble on the edge of one of his feet, and a tiny bubble on the inside edge of his cape. I also messed up drilling the barrel a little bit, but that's on me. It took only slightly longer than a plastic model to assemble, and it cleaned up beautifully.

Here's the thing with Finecast models: when they're models made for Finecast, like this sorcerer here, they tend to come out well. They're models designed for the medium, and have the means to take advantage of the process and material. However, models made for metal that have just kind of been shoehorned into the new material tend to have a poorer track record. This is why you'll see pictures of Finecast Dark Eldar come up, since the range was made for metal and has a lot of thin joins and fiddly bits. The initial launch wave was mostly these metal conversions (if not entirely) so the people who got messed up models were very, VERY vocal about it. It also came at a zenith of GW boneheadedness, as the company both raised prices, introduced a new material with a higher than usual miscast rate (while raising the price) and put in effect an embargo on many territories for their products.

So, in conclusion: Finecast came at a bad time and the initial wave had very poor QA. People still have problems, but not as many as they did then, for a number of reasons. When a Finecast model comes out right, it's beautiful. If it doesn't, call GW and get replacements til it's good.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
I have seen a metal Tyranid big bug explode after being dropped on a ceramic (?) floor, I have doubts.

Was it damaged beyond a couple limbs being bent and arms popping off?

Something like that is easily fixed and not really a problem with the metal itself.

If the metal actually shatters we might have a problem.

I wrote explode for a reason.

I wouldn't throw the thing on a wall, personally, I did flung a Grenadier at my wall, hit the metal heater and only lost a foot, but that's FW stuff.

The only Finecast model I had (Imotekh) was perfectly fine first go. They've probably fixed their production methods. I've noted certain things about Finecast:

1) The material is really really soft. This is good if you're clumsy like me and you drop your models all the time, but not good if you're a rough painter and bend the weapons (like my friend).

2) It's light. Personally, I prefer metal models to paint and play with because of the weight in my hand (which is why I love Warmahordes so much, I only have one plastic model) but it's easier to transport.

3) The models ARE finely detailed, with crisper details than the old metal ones. However PP do similar stuff in plastic; why couldn't GW also switch to plastic?

I've had Finecast miscasts. My least favourite was a unit of Incubi (designed for metal) where every single head was fethed up, and a Slyyth i ended up completely reworking as two arms and the tail were dodgy. I have a big bitz box, so they weren't that huge a hassle.

I've also had Plastic miscasts (like a Raider i bought right as DE came out where the hull sides looked like they'd taken a multi-melta shot at point blank.. They would have made a great wrecked raider diorama though)

Metal miscasts were the absolute pits. You either put up with them, or took an evening with a dremel to sort them out.

Finecast is improving. They REALLY should have made sure they could produce mass volumes decently with a low miscast rate before they splashed the new product, but they didn't.. It has it's pros as a material. It also has some rather serious cons.

I prefer plastic over metal and Finecast, where possible.

The last finecast models I've seen were amazing.

The first ones I was missing arms/legs and mismolds left and right.

Too delicate, too much of an annoyance to deal with sending them back when (not if) the flaws pop up, unconfirmed reports of them getting warped when stripping paint, etc. etc.

I've gone through many many plastic models and many many metal models. The worst I've ever seen out of metal was bad alignment, but that was fixed pretty easily.

What got me the most was how they released with all these holes, then here comes liquid green stuff to fill them. That really rustled the jimmies for me.

I stick with metal and plastic. If I need a model, I look for it in metal. Can't find it? I kitbash/convert it.

At the end of the day it just depends on how much you want to potentially deal with.

Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:Is it worth the money?

Generally, no. They used to be worse, but they're still not good.

If the model has lots of intricate detail, make sure you spend quite some time checking it before leaving the store.
The first Eldar model (Autarch) I bought was horrible, but the later box of models (Dark Reapers) was better.
A Jump-pack Chaplain was fulll of holes, but lots of LGS fixed that. I missed a couple of holes though.

Read up how to deal with bent models and bubbles, and you should be OK.
Don't be put off from inspecting it in the shop.