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 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
It's actually one of the most varied and diverse books out there for 40K

- Jumper List
- Golden Army
- Death Company list
- Tank Lists
- Deathstar Termy lists1
- 'March of the Ancient' Dread-lists
- MSU-Lists
- a slightly overpriced Airforce lists,

None of the above really play alike.

etc..

It's probably my favourite 5th Edition book.

Amen, Zweis!

Adapt overcome, OP!

Agreed SlaveTo and Zweis those lists are all beatable simply figure out how your army does it! Also to the Ork player remember this phrase it generally cures all problems (MOAR DAKKA!!!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Sang Priests CAN take a jump pack.

Obviously the OP hasn't ever played Grey Knights.

I think he meant corbulo can't take a jump pack. Other sang priests can.

I beat mehpiston in a Challenge with a Chain Fist terminator champion only 2 days ago.

Admittedly he was down to 1 woudn atthe time but that was only beause my 5 man squad of Plague marines sent soem rapid fire plasma in his face.

if you let him get close to soemthing less than a tough assault squad - he will murder stuff.

Any shooting which is AP2 or AP1 will smack him around quite happily (T6 only goes so far after all). melta or Plasma Chosen would most likely gun him down in short order.



The only thing i really hate about the BA codex is that their assault troops only scatter 1D6 when Deep Striking - and they can all take a priest for FNP.

Annoying? Yes
OP? Not really

When i see mephiston i throw a unit of shooty terminators at him and watch him go down he ain't that good.

Dante will still kill terms but against a squad of th/ss he still dies. The real reason you want him is a Dante bomb with infernius pistols to remove a high value target turn 2 and then hope he and the unit survive.

If you want the Blood Angels character of choice for now go look at Tycho where is your armor save now.

ALso cobulo is a pain so shoot him dead

BA's in 5t hed were silly good because Transporthammer was the name of the game and BA's had not just 'Fast' type vehicles, but also could min/max their all-important meltaguns AND get a discount on their transport at the same time!
Getting 'free' assault cannons or las/twin-plasma gun turrets on Razorbacks was simply OTT in 5th.

Now however with transports no longer being nigh-invulnerable thanks to HP's, BA's have simply become an army that's just "Codex: Space Marines +1".
Yes, they still have annoying abilities like army-wide FnP & Furious Charge. They still have blendernaughts & those Fast type vehicles. They still have silly special characters with annoying abilities, and DOA is still an 'effing slap in the face to all use Daemon players!

But they're hardly top tier now. A solid army, yes. But Necron or GK level of power? Nope, not anymore.

FenixZero wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So you say it because it sounds more fair? If that's the way you agree eith the other guy then fine, but I find nothing in the rulebook to support that.

The core rulebook FAQ has it as Griddlelol says. You choose whether or not to take LOS first, then you make saves.

It was stupidly broken beforehand.

This. There was literally no downside to putting an ic at the front of a unit to tank incoming attacks with 2+ armour. Now that's fixed with the FAQ. It's an actual risk now which in some cases is worth taking.

 Griddlelol wrote:

FenixZero wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So you say it because it sounds more fair? If that's the way you agree eith the other guy then fine, but I find nothing in the rulebook to support that.

The core rulebook FAQ has it as Griddlelol says. You choose whether or not to take LOS first, then you make saves.

It was stupidly broken beforehand.

This. There was literally no downside to putting an ic at the front of a unit to tank incoming attacks with 2+ armour. Now that's fixed with the FAQ. It's an actual risk now which in some cases is worth taking.

I don't see how this was stupidly broken. You could never have a character take 2+ saves and then Look Out Sir! them away unless he was in a squad filled with 2+ saves. Nothing has really changed.

 Griddlelol wrote:

FenixZero wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So you say it because it sounds more fair? If that's the way you agree eith the other guy then fine, but I find nothing in the rulebook to support that.

The core rulebook FAQ has it as Griddlelol says. You choose whether or not to take LOS first, then you make saves.

It was stupidly broken beforehand.

This. There was literally no downside to putting an ic at the front of a unit to tank incoming attacks with 2+ armour. Now that's fixed with the FAQ. It's an actual risk now which in some cases is worth taking.

erm, the FAQ didnt really change much - you still for mixed saves took LOS! THEN took any saves, never saves then LOS!

It's a Mat Ward book, so of course there's a lot of sillyness.

Personally, if from nothing else than a thematic/story perspective, I find it ridiculous that BA's suddenly have so many dreads are are only rivaled by the Imperial Guard in terms of how much heavy armor they can field...for a faction that's typically been renowned for jump infantry and assault units...

 Red Comet wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

FenixZero wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So you say it because it sounds more fair? If that's the way you agree eith the other guy then fine, but I find nothing in the rulebook to support that.

The core rulebook FAQ has it as Griddlelol says. You choose whether or not to take LOS first, then you make saves.

It was stupidly broken beforehand.

This. There was literally no downside to putting an ic at the front of a unit to tank incoming attacks with 2+ armour. Now that's fixed with the FAQ. It's an actual risk now which in some cases is worth taking.

I don't see how this was stupidly broken. You could never have a character take 2+ saves and then Look Out Sir! them away unless he was in a squad filled with 2+ saves. Nothing has really changed.

Ghaz + Full Squad of MANZ + and Pain Boy (with I think Mega Armor as well), this is a foot slogging death star. Before the change to the LOS rule, my friend who would run this, could allocate wounds to each of the Mega Nobz until they all had one wound left. Now he can't do that, unless he moves the Nobz around in the movement phase.

I've never had too much of a problem with Mephestion to be honest, but he always wrecks a few vehicles before I shoot him down.

As a BA player, I can maul anything you put in front of me, the damage output that even the most basic unit can achieve when combined with Priests etc is pretty solid.

However, if I make a mistake, or you outmanouvre me, they die just like regular marines, FNP only goes so far. With 6th edition's focus on objectives, once my assault marines are dead, I can't win.

The codex has some strong builds and plenty of variety, but OP?

Enjoy your first Necron flying circus!

I've got a friend who plays BA, he's given up on Memphiston as he never gets him into combat anymore, and even if he does he has lousy luck and has in several games has killed himself with overheating plasma pistols and failed psychic tests.

hobojebus wrote:
I've got a friend who plays BA, he's given up on Memphiston as he never gets him into combat anymore, and even if he does he has lousy luck and has in several games has killed himself with overheating plasma pistols and failed psychic tests.

Challenges really hurt such a beatstick as Mephiston. He can't not accept them. It means my 30man blob he charged in to can survive 3 rounds, losing a sergeant each time. Really adds to the tarpitting.

BA really are just SM+1 and it works well if you view it as that.

DC and Golden army lists are fun to see but they have such large weak points to them that they are not really competitive in a tournament setting.

*though if local meta gives Meph 3 BRB powers he is still pretty powerful either as a buffer to the shooty elements (devs/stern) or as a beatstick (Bio 2- Div 1) in a storm raven.

 Red Comet wrote:
This thread is hilarious because Blood Angels have fallen out of the lime light as far as codices go. 6th Edition hit them pretty hard since vehicles took a hit and assault took a hit. Razorspam for BA isn't as good as it used to be, and Jump Infantry aren't that great because once they are within 12 inches to shoot at something its pretty much guaranteed that they get assaulted or they have to assault first.

^^^THIS. I use to run a DoA list. Can't do that anymore since the stupid new reserve rules.

And Mephiston is one of the most overrated characters in all of 40k. No ++ save and no EW = dead by turn two if you're stupid with him.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
This thread is hilarious because Blood Angels have fallen out of the lime light as far as codices go. 6th Edition hit them pretty hard since vehicles took a hit and assault took a hit. Razorspam for BA isn't as good as it used to be, and Jump Infantry aren't that great because once they are within 12 inches to shoot at something its pretty much guaranteed that they get assaulted or they have to assault first.

^^^THIS. I use to run a DoA list. Can't do that anymore since the stupid new reserve rules.

And Mephiston is one of the most overrated characters in all of 40k. No ++ save and no EW = dead by turn two if you're stupid with him.

Its a shame that DoA is done for in its entirety, but honestly it was always better to put them on the board like 75% of the time. One of DoA's strengths was that everything was mechanized. Now...not so much.

Deep striking landraiders always made me laugh tbh

And as you probably realised, BA are not unbeatable, especially not mephiston.

Mephiston, when he arrived, was incredibly good. Then people worked out how to kill him, which is not through combat

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Know what's really funny?

Sticking Saint Celestine up against Mephiston.

Mephiston: RARGH! WS7! S10! Transfix!.. AP3?

Celestine: YAAAH! WS7! S... 3? AP... 3? Miraculous Intervention!

Celestine: attacks. Wounds using her Ardent Blade pseudopoison. Mephiston saves.

Mephiston: attacks second. Hits half the time. Wounds most of them. Celestine saves.

Several rounds later: Celestine fails a 2+ save. Dies. Gets back up again and charges!

Mephiston: ... WHAT THE HELL, WOMAN?!

Celestine: GIVE ME SPARKLY BABIES VAMPIRE BOY! (or something like that... she actually killed him after that.)

Situations like this are the reason I play Sisters of Battle. I have shelved my Blood Angels and IG and have made SoB my primary 6th edition army.

When I first saw it, I thought this was a three year old thread necro. I like that the Blood Angels can inspire this sort of emotion despite them actually being pretty bad in 6th. Really the only thing the army does well is pretend to be Codex Space Marines with FnP rather than Combat Tactics.

None of the changes to assault helped the army. None of the vehicle changes helped the army. The FnP change is a wash. Furious Charge got nerfed. As far as I can tell, Death Company are the only part of the army that actually got better and you pay through the nose for them if you want to make them useful.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
This thread is hilarious because Blood Angels have fallen out of the lime light as far as codices go. 6th Edition hit them pretty hard since vehicles took a hit and assault took a hit. Razorspam for BA isn't as good as it used to be, and Jump Infantry aren't that great because once they are within 12 inches to shoot at something its pretty much guaranteed that they get assaulted or they have to assault first.

^^^THIS. I use to run a DoA list. Can't do that anymore since the stupid new reserve rules.

And Mephiston is one of the most overrated characters in all of 40k. No ++ save and no EW = dead by turn two if you're stupid with him.

No EW but still T6 (Tougher than a DP for some reason) so really the lack of EW doesn't matter, no range weapon can ID him and the only 2 force weapons that could probably wound him are force axes, which will die horrible due the it's I6 & challenge, and doomfists from the GK's dreadknights, don't remember if the daemonhammer is a force weapon as well but probably

He will however die to lots of AP2 shots if not in cover

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
This thread is hilarious because Blood Angels have fallen out of the lime light as far as codices go. 6th Edition hit them pretty hard since vehicles took a hit and assault took a hit. Razorspam for BA isn't as good as it used to be, and Jump Infantry aren't that great because once they are within 12 inches to shoot at something its pretty much guaranteed that they get assaulted or they have to assault first.

^^^THIS. I use to run a DoA list. Can't do that anymore since the stupid new reserve rules.

And Mephiston is one of the most overrated characters in all of 40k. No ++ save and no EW = dead by turn two if you're stupid with him.

No EW but still T6 (Tougher than a DP for some reason) so really the lack of EW doesn't matter, no range weapon can ID him and the only 2 force weapons that could probably wound him are force axes, which will die horrible due the it's I6 & challenge, and doomfists from the GK's dreadknights, don't remember if the daemonhammer is a force weapon as well but probably

He will however die to lots of AP2 shots if not in cover

Or any random Archon with a Husk Blade. Or any of the many armies that can Enfeeble him down to T5 and Demolisher cannon him. Or a lone GK paladin with a daemon hammer who just has to wound him once to ID him, strikes simultaneously with him thanks to Psyk-out grenades, and gets a 2+ armor save against Meph's attacks. Or a winged CSM DP who can Enfeeble Meph down to T5 and then kill him outright with a Smash. Or 5 Shrikes with paired boneswords. How about Skulltaker, who's got a 2++ versus Meph's force sword and inflicts ID on a 4+ to wound? The list of stuff that can ID Meph is hardly as short as you make it out to be. Even someone as common as Typhus is going to take Mephiston's lunch money because he lacks EW.

You are relaying really heavy on getting enfeeble on a usually 2 or 3 rolls on biomancy, besides that you need to pass the psy test and meph deny it on 5s, but yeah if you down him to T5 he is IDable, and i did mention the daemon hammer didn't recall if it was a force weapon as well

All Nemesis weapons are force weapons. Also, when you can put multiple psykers on the board (like CSM and Wolves and Tyranids can), getting the power you wan't isn't hard.