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 AustonT wrote:
gunz is kinda my thing.

Might make a good tagline, if you're tired of Spartacus.

To add to what others have already said, you might also want to check self-defense laws over there and see what constitutes justified self-defense and what constitutes murder.

Also about semi-automatics and reliability... I have a Ruger SR9 and I have had no feeding problems while putting several hundred rounds through it. Modern semi-autos are quite reliable provided the manufacturer is good and the gun itself is well cleaned and lubed.

A local manufacturer you might want to look into is Armscor. I'm hearing some good reviews about their guns. They have some ranges as well. Their site isn't telling me how much their products are though... You'd have to call them up and ask.

Of course, don't turn your nose up at consignment guns either. My SR9 was $300 and practically brand new. The previous owner couldn't have put more than 100 rounds through it before he dumped it at my local gunshop.

I second what AustonT said about a .22 pistol, especially if you and/or your wife find yourselves flinching when firing something like a 9mm or .45 ACP. That can cause accuracy issues. Now, you may not want to buy two pistols, so it may be a case where you need to rent a .22 (if that's even possible) and get used to a pistol's blast first.

Oh, and I don't recall if it was mentioned in the thread, but you also might want to check to see if hollow point bullets are legal over there. They have the best stopping power due to their expansive nature. They're also much less likely to over-penetrate an intruder and hit someone in the next room or house. And if they do over-penetrate, they will have expended so much energy in the target that you really don't have to worry about innocent bystanders being significantly hurt from it. You'd practice with full metal jacket bullets of course to keep expenses down.

You didn't mention whether you have kids or not, but if you do (or you have nosy friends and relatives), then you might also want to invest in a nightstand gun safe like this.

Tauren 9mm? Small light and cheap but then again not overall accurate

If its just for home defence and the occasional hobby shoot then ide go with a simple revolver and plenty of training. /British help

Slightly OT but seeing as this is a gun thread, a question for American posters: I've been reading about depression era bank robbers. Can you still get Browning automatic rifles in the USA or are they banned under assault weapons law/machine gun act? Or whatever it's called?

If I ever move to the USA, that's my weapon of home defence choice!

 Ouze wrote:
Have you considered getting a dog instead? As others have pointed out, a bazooka won't help you if you aren't home.

But if you armed the dog with a bazooka...

 azazel the cat wrote:

The best firearm is the one you are the most comfortable with. End of story.


A well-practiced, comfortable firearms wielder will be far more deadly to his target with only a .22 than some tacticool poseur with a red dot sight on an assault rifle.


I consider the 1911 to be the best handgun ever made; and I think most firearms instructors will recommend it as a good "learner" handgun because its kick is pretty soft, despite the .45 ACP cartridge's good stopping power.






EDIT: I must've missed his post, but you should listen to AustonT.

Actually, most instructors in my area suggest that 1911s are not the best "learner" pistols for defense, as some of the safety features are somewhat unwieldy for someone with little to no experience.

HOWEVER, I will say that they are my personal favorite and if the OP is "trying on" a 1911 and it fits the best for both him and the missus, then go for it and practice practice practice.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
You might want to look in to Rock Island Armory, they're a manufacturer local to the Philippines the specializes in the 1911 using Colt Original Machines and guides. I got one in the U.S. for approx $400 + Shipping/Transfer fee and that pistol has never steered me wrong before. Couple hundred rounds of quality ammo, and a couple hundred rounds of garbage russian plinking ammo and never had a misfire.

My big piece of advice is to go to a gun store and "try" a couple guns on, have the missus get a feel for the grips as well. You want a pistol that is most comfortable in your hand, whatever that might be.

Yep. Its weird to say, but buy local, buy a Rock Island...

Gun stores, gun clubs, and gun shows (if there is such a thing there).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Slightly OT but seeing as this is a gun thread, a question for American posters: I've been reading about depression era bank robbers. Can you still get Browning automatic rifles in the USA or are they banned under assault weapons law/machine gun act? Or whatever it's called?

If I ever move to the USA, that's my weapon of home defence choice!

A select fire BAR (or 'that superheavy " as Dad would say) is illegal without a special license for automatic weaponry. There may be semi-auto versions available. They are really really heavy - like 30lb heavy.

If you're into that but don't have multiple grand or the desire to get a hernia, I'd suggest an M1(M14) battle rifle.
Daddy likey:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=15

Here's what Daddy would get if he had more unlimited funds:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-4-2-1-1-2-1-2-2-1-4-4.aspx
Talk about shopping mall ninja level tacticool!

Here's what Daddy really wants for his birthday next year, in 30-06:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-xcr-ii.aspx

Jumping back in for more because goddess knows I'll be making my living from this stuff so I like to gab about it. Here in the states I'm a big proponent of the "three gun" system wherein everyone should have a rifle, shotgun and a handgun. However as I read your situation with a limited budget and a focus on self defense in the home and something the wife can use easily I might be leaning in towards a revolver in .38 Sp/.357 Mag

Don't quote me on this but from what I understand any revolver in .375 can also reliably and accurately put the smaller .38 Sp rounds down the pipe. That makes for cheap practice ammo, and something with a little more kick to it for putting messy holes in goblins. Also gives the wife something a little softer for shooting and handling if she decides she doesn't like the kick on a .357 so versatility is something to consider there for both you and her.

You can also look at small gauge shotguns, they still make buckshot for a 20 gauge, and it won't smack a smaller built person around like a 12 gauge.

When it comes down to it though, like I said, go to your local range and talk to the guys around you with pistols, ask about ammo availability and of course see if you can get some trigger time (ask nicely, that's how I got to fire my first .50 cal rifle ) find the gun that feels best, and fits your local environment best (a gun's all well and good, but it's a paper weight if you have to gak every bullet in from over seas)

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
You might want to look in to Rock Island Armory, they're a manufacturer local to the Philippines the specializes in the 1911 using Colt Original Machines and guides. I got one in the U.S. for approx $400 + Shipping/Transfer fee and that pistol has never steered me wrong before. Couple hundred rounds of quality ammo, and a couple hundred rounds of garbage russian plinking ammo and never had a misfire.

My big piece of advice is to go to a gun store and "try" a couple guns on, have the missus get a feel for the grips as well. You want a pistol that is most comfortable in your hand, whatever that might be.

Yep. Its weird to say, but buy local, buy a Rock Island...

Gun stores, gun clubs, and gun shows (if there is such a thing there).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Slightly OT but seeing as this is a gun thread, a question for American posters: I've been reading about depression era bank robbers. Can you still get Browning automatic rifles in the USA or are they banned under assault weapons law/machine gun act? Or whatever it's called?

If I ever move to the USA, that's my weapon of home defence choice!

A select fire BAR (or 'that superheavy " as Dad would say) is illegal without a special license for automatic weaponry. There may be semi-auto versions available. They are really really heavy - like 30lb heavy.

If you're into that but don't have multiple grand or the desire to get a hernia, I'd suggest an M1(M14) battle rifle.
Daddy likey:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=15

Here's what Daddy would get if he had more unlimited funds:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-4-2-1-1-2-1-2-2-1-4-4.aspx
Talk about shopping mall ninja level tacticool!

Here's what Daddy really wants for his birthday next year, in 30-06:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-xcr-ii.aspx

An impressive selection of guns. Still, no matter what Americans arms themselves with, they'll be no match for the UN invasion force. Evil Laugh

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
You might want to look in to Rock Island Armory, they're a manufacturer local to the Philippines the specializes in the 1911 using Colt Original Machines and guides. I got one in the U.S. for approx $400 + Shipping/Transfer fee and that pistol has never steered me wrong before. Couple hundred rounds of quality ammo, and a couple hundred rounds of garbage russian plinking ammo and never had a misfire.

My big piece of advice is to go to a gun store and "try" a couple guns on, have the missus get a feel for the grips as well. You want a pistol that is most comfortable in your hand, whatever that might be.

Yep. Its weird to say, but buy local, buy a Rock Island...

Gun stores, gun clubs, and gun shows (if there is such a thing there).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Slightly OT but seeing as this is a gun thread, a question for American posters: I've been reading about depression era bank robbers. Can you still get Browning automatic rifles in the USA or are they banned under assault weapons law/machine gun act? Or whatever it's called?

QTF but surely you mean Britannias invetable world conquest

If I ever move to the USA, that's my weapon of home defence choice!

A select fire BAR (or 'that superheavy " as Dad would say) is illegal without a special license for automatic weaponry. There may be semi-auto versions available. They are really really heavy - like 30lb heavy.

If you're into that but don't have multiple grand or the desire to get a hernia, I'd suggest an M1(M14) battle rifle.
Daddy likey:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=15

Here's what Daddy would get if he had more unlimited funds:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-4-2-1-1-2-1-2-2-1-4-4.aspx
Talk about shopping mall ninja level tacticool!

Here's what Daddy really wants for his birthday next year, in 30-06:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-xcr-ii.aspx

An impressive selection of guns. Still, no matter what Americans arms themselves with, they'll be no match for the UN invasion force. Evil Laugh

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Jumping back in for more because goddess knows I'll be making my living from this stuff so I like to gab about it. Here in the states I'm a big proponent of the "three gun" system wherein everyone should have a rifle, shotgun and a handgun. However as I read your situation with a limited budget and a focus on self defense in the home and something the wife can use easily I might be leaning in towards a revolver in .38 Sp/.357 Mag

Don't quote me on this but from what I understand any revolver in .375 can also reliably and accurately put the smaller .38 Sp rounds down the pipe. That makes for cheap practice ammo, and something with a little more kick to it for putting messy holes in goblins. Also gives the wife something a little softer for shooting and handling if she decides she doesn't like the kick on a .357 so versatility is something to consider there for both you and her.

You can also look at small gauge shotguns, they still make buckshot for a 20 gauge, and it won't smack a smaller built person around like a 12 gauge.

When it comes down to it though, like I said, go to your local range and talk to the guys around you with pistols, ask about ammo availability and of course see if you can get some trigger time (ask nicely, that's how I got to fire my first .50 cal rifle ) find the gun that feels best, and fits your local environment best (a gun's all well and good, but it's a paper weight if you have to gak every bullet in from over seas)

.357s can definitely shoot 38 specials and shoot them well. The recoil is extremely light.
The only thing with revovlers is you need to make sure you and the wife can shoot it doubla action - aka fire it by just squeezing the trigger and not manually pulling the hammer back.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
An impressive selection of guns. Still, no matter what Americans arms themselves with, they'll be no match for the UN invasion force. Evil Laugh

We don't need to win on the ground.

We can just defund them!

 Seaward wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
An impressive selection of guns. Still, no matter what Americans arms themselves with, they'll be no match for the UN invasion force. Evil Laugh

We don't need to win on the ground.

We can just defund them!

Better yet, we can start enforcing all those parking tickets...solve our national debt AND defund UN at the same time??? Yes please.

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Jumping back in for more because goddess knows I'll be making my living from this stuff so I like to gab about it. Here in the states I'm a big proponent of the "three gun" system wherein everyone should have a rifle, shotgun and a handgun. However as I read your situation with a limited budget and a focus on self defense in the home and something the wife can use easily I might be leaning in towards a revolver in .38 Sp/.357 Mag

Don't quote me on this but from what I understand any revolver in .375 can also reliably and accurately put the smaller .38 Sp rounds down the pipe. That makes for cheap practice ammo, and something with a little more kick to it for putting messy holes in goblins. Also gives the wife something a little softer for shooting and handling if she decides she doesn't like the kick on a .357 so versatility is something to consider there for both you and her.

You can also look at small gauge shotguns, they still make buckshot for a 20 gauge, and it won't smack a smaller built person around like a 12 gauge.

When it comes down to it though, like I said, go to your local range and talk to the guys around you with pistols, ask about ammo availability and of course see if you can get some trigger time (ask nicely, that's how I got to fire my first .50 cal rifle ) find the gun that feels best, and fits your local environment best (a gun's all well and good, but it's a paper weight if you have to gak every bullet in from over seas)

.357s can definitely shoot 38 specials and shoot them well. The recoil is extremely light.

That's what I thought, but if I haven't fired it that way myself (and I haven't, I only have a .38 Sp and when I've played with .357s it was with .357s) it's unproven till stated otherwise by someone who actually knows.

its the same principle with 44 mags. They will shoot 44 specials just fine.

I have a cylinder for one of my Blackhawks to put 9mm down it.
Depending on the boolits you use the difference between a 357 barrel and 9mm is 1-2 thousandths.
I've never been so inclined, but it came wit the gun.

I've never been much for wheelguns, but if e'er I get one, it'll be a Chiappa Rhino, and I'll wander around introducing myself as Rick Deckard.

Here's my 2 cents:

If you are going to purchase a gun for home defense you have to take a few things into consideration. One of the biggest mistakes I see is a person walks in, buys a pistol and some ammo, takes it to the range a couple times, then sticks it in a drawer or wherever and it collects dust. Then if it ever comes time to use it they forget everything because they aren't comfortable with their weapon and their nerves are going nuts.

Now this is expected in all situations for folks who have never been in a combat situation, were all gonna be scared and a bit freaked out.

What is important is that you have a weapon that you are comfortable with to the point the motions become muscle memory and your brain does what's required with no actual thought to it, or a weapon that has as little steps as possible from draw to fire.

Pistols fall into the first category. You MUST practice to the point your body goes from draw, safety off, rough sight in, trigger pull, fire in a manner where you do not have to think about doinng each of these steps. Reason: when you think about the steps it generally takes longer, you forget the safety, and/or your looking for things on the gun like the safety instead of keeping your barrel on target. Now in the case of most home defense situations your target is in close quarters, which gives forgiveness on the aiming, but half am second can mean target is 10 feet away or now has hands on your weapon.

Shotguns, or pistols such as the Taurus Judge that shot shot shells, fall into the second category. It still follows the same procedure, but the time between each is much less, and they are MUCH more forgiving if you mess up. To start: if your aim is off 6 inches with a pistol you run the risk of putting a bullet in a nonlethal area that would not disable your target. 6 inches with a tactical shotgun at 10 feet is still going to disable your target. Second, the weapon itself offers less to think about. Point, safety off, shoot, rack, shoot, rack, shoot until the threat is neutralized, no worries about stovepipes, and the odds of a pump shotgun jamming are far less tan that of a semi auto pistol. Granted revolvers don't have the jamming issues, but they again require decent aim to ensure effect on target.

Now my opinion is obvious for the best all around home defense weapon, and this doesn't take into account if you want to carry concealed but keep in mind theres a lot going on in these situations and above all you must be comfortable with your weapon.

Oh and on the wife subject, my wife is 5'7" and about 145 pounds and she handles the 12 guage with no issues.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Edit double post, apologies for misspelled words and grammar issues, typing on tab with big thumbs lol

Could always fork out for a folding stock for a shotty aswell so it takes up less room.

IronWarLeg wrote:
Here's my 2 cents:

If you are going to purchase a gun for home defense you have to take a few things into consideration. One of the biggest mistakes I see is a person walks in, buys a pistol and some ammo, takes it to the range a couple times, then sticks it in a drawer or wherever and it collects dust. Then if it ever comes time to use it they forget everything because they aren't comfortable with their weapon and their nerves are going nuts.

Now this is expected in all situations for folks who have never been in a combat situation, were all gonna be scared and a bit freaked out.

What is important is that you have a weapon that you are comfortable with to the point the motions become muscle memory and your brain does what's required with no actual thought to it, or a weapon that has as little steps as possible from draw to fire.

Pistols fall into the first category. You MUST practice to the point your body goes from draw, safety off, rough sight in, trigger pull, fire in a manner where you do not have to think about doinng each of these steps. Reason: when you think about the steps it generally takes longer, you forget the safety, and/or your looking for things on the gun like the safety instead of keeping your barrel on target. Now in the case of most home defense situations your target is in close quarters, which gives forgiveness on the aiming, but half am second can mean target is 10 feet away or now has hands on your weapon.

Shotguns, or pistols such as the Taurus Judge that shot shot shells, fall into the second category. It still follows the same procedure, but the time between each is much less, and they are MUCH more forgiving if you mess up. To start: if your aim is off 6 inches with a pistol you run the risk of putting a bullet in a nonlethal area that would not disable your target. 6 inches with a tactical shotgun at 10 feet is still going to disable your target. Second, the weapon itself offers less to think about. Point, safety off, shoot, rack, shoot, rack, shoot until the threat is neutralized, no worries about stovepipes, and the odds of a pump shotgun jamming are far less tan that of a semi auto pistol. Granted revolvers don't have the jamming issues, but they again require decent aim to ensure effect on target.

Now my opinion is obvious for the best all around home defense weapon, and this doesn't take into account if you want to carry concealed but keep in mind theres a lot going on in these situations and above all you must be comfortable with your weapon.

Oh and on the wife subject, my wife is 5'7" and about 145 pounds and she handles the 12 guage with no issues.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Edit double post, apologies for misspelled words and grammar issues, typing on tab with big thumbs lol

You make some interesting points, especially the part about instinct, reaction and adrenaline flowing.

You are right in saying that most people thrust into these situation probably won't have been in a combat/violent situation before, and their gun training will be rusty.

On reflection of drawing on my own experience of violent/combat situations, my advice would be to ignore guns and get a high quality combat knife.

I read somewhere that most home invasions involve grappling, surprise attack by the owner etc etc

Ok knives are not perfect for every situation, but given what i said about nerves, panic, adrenaline etc etc people's survival instincts mean that IMO they would probably do more damage with a knife as there is less to think about. This view will probably be shot down in flames

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

IronWarLeg wrote:
Here's my 2 cents:

If you are going to purchase a gun for home defense you have to take a few things into consideration. One of the biggest mistakes I see is a person walks in, buys a pistol and some ammo, takes it to the range a couple times, then sticks it in a drawer or wherever and it collects dust. Then if it ever comes time to use it they forget everything because they aren't comfortable with their weapon and their nerves are going nuts.

Now this is expected in all situations for folks who have never been in a combat situation, were all gonna be scared and a bit freaked out.

What is important is that you have a weapon that you are comfortable with to the point the motions become muscle memory and your brain does what's required with no actual thought to it, or a weapon that has as little steps as possible from draw to fire.

Pistols fall into the first category. You MUST practice to the point your body goes from draw, safety off, rough sight in, trigger pull, fire in a manner where you do not have to think about doinng each of these steps. Reason: when you think about the steps it generally takes longer, you forget the safety, and/or your looking for things on the gun like the safety instead of keeping your barrel on target. Now in the case of most home defense situations your target is in close quarters, which gives forgiveness on the aiming, but half am second can mean target is 10 feet away or now has hands on your weapon.

Shotguns, or pistols such as the Taurus Judge that shot shot shells, fall into the second category. It still follows the same procedure, but the time between each is much less, and they are MUCH more forgiving if you mess up. To start: if your aim is off 6 inches with a pistol you run the risk of putting a bullet in a nonlethal area that would not disable your target. 6 inches with a tactical shotgun at 10 feet is still going to disable your target. Second, the weapon itself offers less to think about. Point, safety off, shoot, rack, shoot, rack, shoot until the threat is neutralized, no worries about stovepipes, and the odds of a pump shotgun jamming are far less tan that of a semi auto pistol. Granted revolvers don't have the jamming issues, but they again require decent aim to ensure effect on target.

Now my opinion is obvious for the best all around home defense weapon, and this doesn't take into account if you want to carry concealed but keep in mind theres a lot going on in these situations and above all you must be comfortable with your weapon.

Oh and on the wife subject, my wife is 5'7" and about 145 pounds and she handles the 12 guage with no issues.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Edit double post, apologies for misspelled words and grammar issues, typing on tab with big thumbs lol

You make some interesting points, especially the part about instinct, reaction and adrenaline flowing.

You are right in saying that most people thrust into these situation probably won't have been in a combat/violent situation before, and their gun training will be rusty.

On reflection of drawing on my own experience of violent/combat situations, my advice would be to ignore guns and get a high quality combat knife.

I read somewhere that most home invasions involve grappling, surprise attack by the owner etc etc

Ok knives are not perfect for every situation, but given what i said about nerves, panic, adrenaline etc etc people's survival instincts mean that IMO they would probably do more damage with a knife as there is less to think about. This view will probably be shot down in flames

Yes it will

Although they do make bayonets for shotguns, oddly enough...

The knife is a good backup plan, but if you do get in a tussle the knife could be even more dangerous to yourself then a gun would.

Home defense weapon, pump action shotgun. The sound of the pump scares most people away already. Nothing else makes that sound so well.

You do not need super good aim with a shotgun loaded with shot.

Buckshot and birdshot do not penetrate walls easily, so the chances of wounding a neighbor in his house is very very unlikely.

Shotguns often get around a lot of gun regulations, because they are primarily hunting weapons.

When not using it for home defense, you can hunt with it to provide food for your family.

Also they make shotguns in many sizes all the way down to .410 and they cost between $200 and $500.

Indeed, shotguns are scary. Only thing worse to encounter at close range would probably be a flamethrower.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed, shotguns are scary. Only thing worse to encounter at close range would probably be a flamethrower.

Because they get handed out every thursday at walmart

InquisitorVaron wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed, shotguns are scary. Only thing worse to encounter at close range would probably be a flamethrower.

Because they get handed out every thursday at walmart

I got mine on sale on Black Friday

They're fairly easy to build yourself.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed, shotguns are scary. Only thing worse to encounter at close range would probably be a flamethrower.

I do not recommend a flamethrower for home defense, simply because Chesty Puller did not like flamethrowers.

Of course, his reason for not liking them is about as good as anything out there in the weapons world.

Indeed, the home defense merits of a Flamethrower are exactly ziltch

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed, the home defense merits of a Flamethrower are exactly ziltch

Not exactly, if I was into the whole home invasion/robbery thing and someone busted out a flame thrower while I was in their house I would deffinately run away!