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 azazel the cat wrote:
Seems like most experienced people agree that this mythical animal is called "the firearm you're comfortable and practiced with"

Most experienced people agree that it should be the firearm you're most comfortable and practiced with, as long as that firearm falls within certain conditions. Service calibers for pistols, etc.

So we're all agreed that leaping out from the dark with a knife is the best way to protect your home

No no no. Let the Badger Dog provide peace of mind.
See this team of BADGER DOGS defend their humans against this strange robot menace.

I'm still waiting with rapt antisipation to hear about "spreadshot".

To defend my position on shotguns being more forgiving than pistols on aim, I wanted to make it clear that I am in full agreement with Mr. The Cat, that you should always be on target and confident in your aim, if you cant safely take the shot, then dont. BUT! being off by 6 inches at target is a very easy thing to do, especially if your shaking. With that being said, a .357 in the shoulder will not have the same effect as 00 buck, even if only spread 3-5 inches.

But for the OP, if your still reading this post, as you can see pretty much everyones in agreement that its whatever your comfortable with.

Don't listen to any of the nonsense about 9mm lacking stopping power. There was a study done decades ago using nothing but full metal jacket ammo that concluded that 9mm wasn't as good as larger rounds like a .45. With modern, hollow-point home defense rounds like gold-dots, a 9mm kills dead just as well as any of the larger calibers. Buy whichever weapon you and your wife are more comfortable carrying / firing. Take a look at some of the studies comparing the different caliber hollow-point rounds being fired into ballistic gel, you'll get a better sense of what you "need."

Your bigger problem will be putting the round(s) on target with your hands shaking and your blood-pressure raised due to the adrenaline shock. All I can suggest for that is practice. Hit the static range often, take advantage of different opportunities like shoothouses and dynamic targets, and put yourself through some drills where time and accuracy are measured and improved upon.

You'll never be perfect but every improvement will make a difference should you ever need it to matter.

Remember that Hollow-points are illegal in some areas.

Filthy Sanchez wrote:
Don't listen to any of the nonsense about 9mm lacking stopping power. There was a study done decades ago using nothing but full metal jacket ammo that concluded that 9mm wasn't as good as larger rounds like a .45. With modern, hollow-point home defense rounds like gold-dots, a 9mm kills dead just as well as any of the larger calibers. Buy whichever weapon you and your wife are more comfortable carrying / firing. Take a look at some of the studies comparing the different caliber hollow-point rounds being fired into ballistic gel, you'll get a better sense of what you "need."
.

"A 9mm Hollow point might fail to expand but a .45 ACP will never contract"
-Col. Jeff Cooper

I don't think any one ever said anything against 9mm, I know I said I don't like it because I like big nasty holes, or the extra zip from a .40S&W. It's all personal preference.

Ballistics gel wise, the articles I linked above from DocGKR include extensive ballistics gel testing and side by side comparisons.

As long as it's a 9mm or above, don't worry about caliber.

 Seaward wrote:
As long as it's a 9mm or above, don't worry about caliber.

This thread is full of some serious facepalm moments. This one takes the cake. You guys can circle jerking and beating your internet chests. This thread has made me lose most of the respect I once had for the OT. Im out.


OP - do extensive research, goto a local gun shop, ask questions, get educated.

 KingCracker wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
As long as it's a 9mm or above, don't worry about caliber.

This thread is full of some serious facepalm moments. This one takes the cake. You guys can circle jerking and beating your internet chests. This thread has made me lose most of the respect I once had for the OT. Im out.


OP - do extensive research, goto a local gun shop, ask questions, get educated.

If some people spent less time trying to think of ways to insult people and more ways trying to educate and inform them you'd be amazed at how things would improve.

This thread got me thinking about Philipino 1911's.
I'm not exploring thier Commander model in 9mm. Considering I can get two for the price of one Sig 938 it seems feasible.

 AustonT wrote:
This thread got me thinking about Philipino 1911's.
I'm not exploring thier Commander model in 9mm. Considering I can get two for the price of one Sig 938 it seems feasible.

One of the guys in my company bought a Rock Island, and he has told me that he's had absolutely zero Fail to Feed, Fire, Extract, etc. (so no problems)

 KingCracker wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
As long as it's a 9mm or above, don't worry about caliber.

This thread is full of some serious facepalm moments. This one takes the cake. You guys can circle jerking and beating your internet chests. This thread has made me lose most of the respect I once had for the OT. Im out.


OP - do extensive research, goto a local gun shop, ask questions, get educated.

Why is that a facepalm moment? Why do you appear to be working through personal issues about pistol calibers? I've seen a lot of 9mm vs. .40 vs. 45 ACP fights before, but never a freakout about it. Come lay down on this couch. Tell me about your mother and the bad man. Did they make you shoot 38 special? Its ok. I know, I would cry too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
This thread got me thinking about Philipino 1911's.
I'm not exploring thier Commander model in 9mm. Considering I can get two for the price of one Sig 938 it seems feasible.

One of the guys in my company bought a Rock Island, and he has told me that he's had absolutely zero Fail to Feed, Fire, Extract, etc. (so no problems)

They have a pretty decent reputation considering the price.

I wanted a bb-gun, but my mom told me it had the stopping power to take out an eye.

 d-usa wrote:
I wanted a bb-gun, but my mom told me it had the stopping power to take out an eye.

I wanted a bb gun, but mom asked "whats a bb gun? Now be quiet and go hit that mastadon with this rock."

 KingCracker wrote:

This thread is full of some serious facepalm moments. This one takes the cake. You guys can circle jerking and beating your internet chests. This thread has made me lose most of the respect I once had for the OT. Im out.


OP - do extensive research, goto a local gun shop, ask questions, get educated.

You're aware that every instructor on the planet recommends service calibers over mouse guns, right? Military, police, security, civilian, doesn't matter. That's one of the few consistent things you'll find.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
This thread got me thinking about Philipino 1911's.
I'm not exploring thier Commander model in 9mm. Considering I can get two for the price of one Sig 938 it seems feasible.

One of the guys in my company bought a Rock Island, and he has told me that he's had absolutely zero Fail to Feed, Fire, Extract, etc. (so no problems)

They have a pretty decent reputation considering the price.

My buddy owns a Rock Island 1911, bought it off our boss (ex-military guy, said he didn't need 5 1911s...) We went to the range and ran about 100 rounds each through it with no jams, fails to fire, etc... (I shot my housemate's 22lr pistol and the gun range's Desert Eagle 1911 while he was getting used to it.

This is just personal anecdotal evidence, but I when given the choice of a .22lr, 9mm, or .45 1911 (based on what I've shot), I would rather have the .22lr since that is what I'm most comfortable with, and can pop off several shots in a row with easy and decent accuracy, then I would then rather have the .45 simply because I like the feel and the recoil in comparison to the 9mm... I think it has something to do with the heft of the gun in comparison to a 9mm

9mm in a 1911 frame is a dream. The officers model was designed for it. 9mm takes a little time to get used to but when you are to can fire rapidly and accurately. The difference with a 45 is you shouldn't have to. It's not a magic bullets where limbs fly off, physics still apply, but when an unexpanded bullet the size of an adult males thumb hits you at or around 800 fps: it makes you reconsider your life choices.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason most younger shooters dont care for 9mm is because they have only ever fired it out of a glock, or glock type pistol. Use a steel frame like the older SW semi autos or a BHP and youll probably change your tune. I keep meaning to drop a stanless steel or magnesium guide rod into my glock to at least partially balace it out.

 AustonT wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that the reason most younger shooters dont care for 9mm is because they have only ever fired it out of a glock, or glock type pistol. Use a steel frame like the older SW semi autos or a BHP and youll probably change your tune. I keep meaning to drop a stanless steel or magnesium guide rod into my glock to at least partially balace it out.

The bolded part is absolutely why I prefer the 1911 to the 9mm I've shot, it wasn't heavy metal, it was a lightweight gun for sure, but my arm moved a lot when I fired. Though to be fair, the first time I felt the recoil, and heard the shot from the .45... I was scared for about the next ten rounds that I put through it, had to really calm myself down... there was a lot of oomph in that weapon.

A commander in 9mm sounds pretty good. Plus, there's oodles of manufacturers out there making 1911s, so you'll have options.

Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.

 AustonT wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that the reason most younger shooters dont care for 9mm is because they have only ever fired it out of a glock, or glock type pistol.

Could be, I suppose. My girlfriend learned on a polymer 9mm, but I was fortunately around to keep her from getting one of the pocket 9s the sales guys were trying to push on her when she went shopping for a gun after she picked up a stalker at work. She didn't have any trouble with the M&P she eventually went with, but she also learned the fundamentals before she pulled the trigger on a live round.

Steel-frame service weapons definitely dampen recoil, there's no question about that. A lot of new gun owners pick up something the size of a Sig P239 and are shocked when the recoil's tough to manage, but I'm a firm believer that anything of compact size or above, chambered in any of the common service calibers, is perfectly shootable if you learn right. It's the last part that far, far too many people new to firearms skip.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.

LAV, Hackathorn, Yam, Lau, Burton...all of 'em say to void sub-Commander-length 1911s, and it's been good advice in my limited experience.

 AustonT wrote:
9mm in a 1911 frame is a dream. The officers model was designed for it. 9mm takes a little time to get used to but when you are to can fire rapidly and accurately. The difference with a 45 is you shouldn't have to. It's not a magic bullets where limbs fly off, physics still apply, but when an unexpanded bullet the size of an adult males thumb hits you at or around 800 fps: it makes you reconsider your life choices.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason most younger shooters dont care for 9mm is because they have only ever fired it out of a glock, or glock type pistol. Use a steel frame like the older SW semi autos or a BHP and youll probably change your tune. I keep meaning to drop a stanless steel or magnesium guide rod into my glock to at least partially balace it out.

I blame Beretta for my general distaste of 9mm handguns.

Back on Rock Island 1911s, I said it earlier and I'll say it again, my Rock Island has never had a malfunction, even after feeding it lots of Tula ammo for plinking on the range she still runs like a swiss watch. The balance... honestly I can't shoot enough with her, it's like an extension of my hand, even in a one handed "traditional" shooting position. I trust mine with my life every day.

 AustonT wrote:
9mm in a 1911 frame is a dream. The officers model was designed for it. 9mm takes a little time to get used to but when you are to can fire rapidly and accurately. The difference with a 45 is you shouldn't have to. It's not a magic bullets where limbs fly off, physics still apply, but when an unexpanded bullet the size of an adult males thumb hits you at or around 800 fps: it makes you reconsider your life choices.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason most younger shooters dont care for 9mm is because they have only ever fired it out of a glock, or glock type pistol. Use a steel frame like the older SW semi autos or a BHP and youll probably change your tune. I keep meaning to drop a stanless steel or magnesium guide rod into my glock to at least partially balace it out.

Ironically I think 9mms have less recoil in my plastic M&P then my FS 92.

Those guys are referring to 45 acp in anything shorter than a 4inch barrel regardless of frame type IIRC.
The colt officers model(new agent is an officers model) in 9mm would be ok...I'm also pretty sure Colt isn't offering it in anything but 45acp. They are just chasing a market trend.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
A commander in 9mm sounds pretty good. Plus, there's oodles of manufacturers out there making 1911s, so you'll have options.

Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.

Glock is better than a good Colt 45? Have you sought help for this fever you are having?

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.

HERESY!!!!!!!


Sorry, i really do detest Glocks. I have only seen people who should more than likely not own a firearm want them because of looks, the few I've handled in store felt like a freakin' toy in my hand. I just personally feel that a weapon like a firearm should look and feel like a weapon, not something that people may mistake for a toy.


I know there are plenty of responsible Glock owners out there, just in general I don't find any appeal in them.

That's odd Frazz and you know it. That MandP probably jut fits you better.

KM what do you have against the M9, mated with Italian mags I've never had an issue...but I also. Checked the slides for stress marks on the quarterly inspection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Glocks are the most readily available sub machinegun in the world.
That's why I have one. It's not in my preferred crowd but it's hard to argue with reliable 33rd mags. With a shoulder stock(and a form 1) it's a reasonable replacement for a SW M76.

 AustonT wrote:
That's odd Frazz and you know it. That MandP probably jut fits you better.

KM what do you have against the M9, mated with Italian mags I've never had an issue...but I also. Checked the slides for stress marks on the quarterly inspection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Glocks are the most readily available sub machinegun in the world.
That's why I have one. It's not in my preferred crowd but it's hard to argue with reliable 33rd mags. With a shoulder stock(and a form 1) it's a reasonable replacement for a SW M76.

Oh yea it is a surprise. The Beretta is more accurate, at least until finish tweaking the M&P (just one more bit of shop work then hurray - hopefully).

Now I have a .45ACP ultra carry and that thing has a bear of a recoil, worse than my 44mag in comparison. It literally aggravates an old head injury and makes my hand start shaking after about 15 rounds. The 9mm M&Pc does that slightloy, but only after about a hundred rounds, and the shaking is very controllable (in fact was non existent in my two tournaments with it). No shaking problems at all for the the Beretta or full size M&P.

Worse than .44 mag? That must be horrible. There was a guy at the range with a six inch "dirty harry" .44 the other week. It was loud, obnoxious and the shooter looked like he was in serious pain. Ooh, but it was really cool looking too.

OP should get a .44 J-frame snub for home defense