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A ComSal can make a very good second HQ choice, it you want it. Or it can make a decent leader for a faster group of units. It is definitely the primaris psyker of the list though, cheap with some decent functionality. The cover debuff can be quite nice.

I don't think normal salamanders are that bad, they are sort of like better sentinels. They have a harder time dealing with cover but are much faster. They are the only unit that could take advantage of the "ramming = victory points" warlord trait, although I wouldn't use them as a warlord.

Had a game last night, it went really badly. 2v2 on a 4' board, 3650 points a side. May as well call it what it was, a "have a laugh and roll dice" game. We were all so bunched up that the first shot of the game took out 2 of my russes. Stupid Blood Angel vindicators. It was a good lesson in proper spacing though. My command tank did very poorly, but I am blaming the fact I had to proxy it as my FW order hasn't arrived yet.

Interesting news: I asked on facebook about the veteran squad pricing issue, and they said that the price is correct, but the squad is missing the tank hunters rule. So you pay 30 points for a mandatory "doctrine", but it's a pretty impressive one. I can see this being a very effective unit, and removing the mandatory "take codex IG allies for your troops".

Hmmm, so expensive vets with AT power. Still, unlikely that I will use them before an faq.

Art_of_war wrote:
i


are the Russ squadrons still "independent" i.e you can take 1-3 of them as a choice and they can act independently of each other?

now i have the book in my possession- they haven't changed this at all

the tank/siege squadrons dont count as vehicle squadrons unlike the hellhounds/sentinels for example...

otherwise nice changes- i like the vanquisher instant death shells for MCs that was funny when i read it...

Art_of_war wrote:
the tank/siege squadrons dont count as vehicle squadrons unlike the hellhounds/sentinels for example...

What do you mean? They appear the same as the codex russ squadrons to me, except you can't mix the normal/siege types.

I tried out my AC with the new rules for the first time today against a local Tyranid player.

It appears bugs do not like templates.

One thing I found out though is Beast Hunter rounds make the Vanquisher a priority target for most players now; it can feth tanks if you're fighting a vehicle list, and can feth powerful infantry in foot/MC lists.

Stormtrooper squads with a mandatory chimera with deep striking is, however, hilarious. Orbital drop shock Chimera? Not a problem.

Going forwards, the lack of scoring can prove a problem in tournament games, and the tank orders aren't terribly important, save for sniping important targets by making them re-roll successful cover saves (extra D3 for flatout movement when Russes can't flatout is kind of silly). The extra hull point on Commissar and Command tanks is also handy, as with HP, most people focus now on trying to glance vehicles to death, especially with AV14.

Though, it didn't help much against a full unit of Ymgarl Genestealers, but hey, you can't win everything.

I have probably sunk too many points into my warlord tank, although it is one mean thing now.

Vanquisher, co-ax stubber, b-h shells, lascannon, melta sponsons, atrificer hull - 255 points

It costs more than a land raider but looks awesome. I figure it will try to hide and snipe, with the melta for short range.

I've never used multi-meltas on vanquishers; I've never had a case where it's fighting at a range where they're useful. With a 72 inch range, I'm fond of cowering behind a building in the back corner.

The rules really do favour supertanks though; with all the awesome options Commissar Tanks and Command Tanks can take, they're the stars of the list. I kind of want to run more "Commissar Tanks," but have them count as veteran tanks or something; I want all those toys, but it'd be silly to see 2-3 all black tanks running across the table.

Perhaps a second Vanquisher; those BH rounds really do up the versatility, or I could make my own General Grizmund for two command tanks, and a BS4 Punisher bolter boat.

Decisions, decisions, and only one spare Russ kit to do it with.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I've never used multi-meltas on vanquishers; I've never had a case where it's fighting at a range where they're useful. With a 72 inch range, I'm fond of cowering behind a building in the back corner.

There's something to be said for it now that they're heavy vehicles and can move and fire all of that, but IMO if I'm buying sponsons I'd rather spend the extra few points and get plasma cannons to give myself some better anti-infantry shooting and make it less of a single-role paperweight if there aren't any vehicles to kill.

The rules really do favour supertanks though

Well, until the the deep striking melta arrives and blows up that 250+ point supertank just as quickly as a much cheaper version. IMO, add relevant upgrades, but don't get lured into just piling on stuff because you can. On the Vanquisher I'd take the coax heavy stubber and beast hunter shells by default, and probably the hull lascannon. Artificer hull and sponsons are a maybe if I can't include an entire extra unit by cutting them, and none of the other upgrades are worth it. The other HQ option I like is the basic LRBT with infernus shells, and no other upgrades. Cheap, efficient, and give awesome anti-MEQ/anti-cover duality the Eradicator and LRBT only wish they had.

So what are the AP on beast hunter and infernus shells? If they're anything less than 3 they dont seem like theyd be that handy.

Beast-hunters are the same ap as the standard vanquisher. Infernus shells are the same stats as eradicators, except that they are still ordnance.

I am toying with the idea of a command exterminator to fit in more direct fire weaponry.

 Peregrine wrote:
The other HQ option I like is the basic LRBT with infernus shells, and no other upgrades. Cheap, efficient, and give awesome anti-MEQ/anti-cover duality the Eradicator and LRBT only wish they had.

I guess I can pray to the GW gods that the standard LRBT will be able to purchase this upgrade by the time the 6th ed codex rolls out.

It won't happen...but I can hope.

 Trickstick wrote:
Beast-hunters are the same ap as the standard vanquisher. Infernus shells are the same stats as eradicators, except that they are still ordnance.

I am toying with the idea of a command exterminator to fit in more direct fire weaponry.

I've been using one for a while now; Exterminator with 3 HBs. Pretty effective tank, only really struggles against MEQ footslogger lists, but still dishes out enough wounds to cause casualties. Particularly nasty against Xenos, Eldar in particular, as it murders their vehicles and infantry with equal ease.

My own vanquisher, as it stands now, is Artificer Hull, Lascannon and Beast Hunter rounds, and if I've got a few extra points lying around I might give it one of the other upgrades, but it's hardly a priority.

I'm currently leaning towards making my former Demolisher hull an Exterminator as well; run it as a commissar tank, replace a hull HB with a lascannon, and mixed with the two multimeltas it'd be a good vehicle/MC hunter, and then using my spare chassis to make a barebones Demolisher, using the existant turret, and a spare battlecannon I have as another option to change things up.

The loss of Lumbering Behemoth really does require a readjustment of my tanks, and I know a lot of people out there with lascannons on standard Russes who now are stuck with a worthless 15 point upgrade.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
My own vanquisher, as it stands now, is Artificer Hull, Lascannon and Beast Hunter rounds, and if I've got a few extra points lying around I might give it one of the other upgrades, but it's hardly a priority.

IMO the coax heavy stubber is mandatory. 10 points to go from a 66% chance to hit to a 90% chance to hit is a huge improvement, and it also helps your accuracy with the beast hunter shells.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
My own vanquisher, as it stands now, is Artificer Hull, Lascannon and Beast Hunter rounds, and if I've got a few extra points lying around I might give it one of the other upgrades, but it's hardly a priority.

IMO the coax heavy stubber is mandatory. 10 points to go from a 66% chance to hit to a 90% chance to hit is a huge improvement, and it also helps your accuracy with the beast hunter shells.

I concur, co-axial is hardly even an option for a vanquisher as you should always take it.

Also, I would not take a commissar tank unless I had taken both of the command tanks you can have. Two orders a turn means that you can probably rely on getting one off a turn.

I'm running my exterminator with lascannon and HBs. Decent dakka, decent transport killing.

I forgot to mention the coax, I've been using it ever since I discovered that rule, and have the FW turret, so it actually has the stubber on the model anyways.

Hmm, I might make another command tank, I'm currently mixing and matching hulls and turrets at the moment, adjusting my army for the new list.

I'm thinking if I replace the HB on my old Demolisher hull, it'll be an exterminator, lascannon, MM command tank focused on vehicle killing, with my dakka exterminator focused on infantry.

That'd give me three well kitted out BS4 tanks, one anti-heavy tank and MC, one anti-infantry and one anti medium vehicle/heavy infantry. I've been really impressed by the Exterminator in combat, especially the weight of BS4 sponson fire as an HQ tank.

This'd also give me enough variety in hulls and guns to mix and match things for smaller point games, or for building more "balanced" lists (i.e., include some scoring units, or something other than Russes).

I considered, briefly, the Annihilator, as it would reduce my "missing" Leman Russ variants to merely the conquerer, but having to pay the full 150 base price for one (160 if HQ or Commissar), rather than the reduced 130 listed in the unit entry killed that option.

As amusing as it would be to have one of almost everything, I don't want such an overpriced tank. 155 points for a Predator with better armour, but one less lascannon seemed like a decent trade, 175, not so much.

So, here's what I'm looking at as a start. Some of it is determined by what models I have available, but I think it's still a decent list:

HQ:
CCT - Vanquisher (LC, coax heavy stubber, beast hunter shells, artificer hull)

Troops:
LRBT
LRBT
Veterans (plasma x3, Chimera)
Veterans (plasma x3, Chimera)

Fast:
Vulture gunship (TL punisher cannons)

Heavy:
Medusa
Medusa
Avenger

Total: 1495 points

Five pie plate units, three of them on LR hulls, some AA and mobility from the two flyers, and still has two useful units of troops. For larger games I'll probably upgrade the LRBTs to Executioners and add a Demolisher or a second command Vanquisher, or maybe move the troops over to codex vets and unlock another flyer or two. I'm still working on the second and third Leman Russ hulls so the list will remain theory for a while, but hopefully it will work out alright.

Based on another thread I am reading, at 2000 points we should be taking 10x Eradicators and nothing else.

How could we have been so blind.

/sarcasm