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I've been reading my copy of IA1:2nd and quite enjoying it. However, after making some posts there does not seem to be a massive interest in the subject of the new armoured battle group (ABG for short) list that was included. I think that it would be good to start discussion on this subject, although I guess not many people know much about it, as it has just been release and is Forge World, which never seems to get as wide a circulation as the GW materials.

I hope that to increase interest in this topic, as it is a fun and characterful list with some good strengths and weaknesses. I know that IA1:2nd is a new book and probably most people have not had a chance to read it, so I shall try to offer an overview of the list and the units within. Obviously I can't just write the whole thing out, but I shall try to get the balance of information right. However, when in doubt I am going to err on the side of not posting details. My aim is to give people enough information that they can gauge their interest in picking the list up for themselves, or to not be so confused if they meet it across the table.

Also, as leman russ reviews have been done to death since the codex came out, I'm going to assume a base level of understanding about the different variants and there rolls. I may inject my own thoughts at certain points but if I tried to review all of the different weapon choices this would take forever.

From the Top - ABG Specific Rules, Wargear and Warlord Traits

The list is mostly similar to a general Codex:IG list, just with a different structure and a few special additions. As these are integral to the list and colour the view of all the units, I thought it best to outline these first.

Special Rules

There are a random smattering of rules that apply to different units but the only major one is the Company Command Tank rule. This is the ABGs version of the order system from C:IG, and although it is more limited I feel it is a characterful and welcome addition to the list. It seems like a part replacement to the ace crew skills from the old list, making the command structure play a more important role than it used to. Each command tank can issue a single order per turn, rolling on a chart to determine success. Depending on the order given, different effects can be achieved:

Concentrated Fire: This is the extra firepower order and the one that I reckon will be the most popular. It is similar in effect to the "Fire on my Target" order in the Codex. Seems like a good order for most tanks, especially for standard LRBTs against marines in cover.

Erratic Manoeuvres: This order gives the unit it is used on extra resilience in close combat. I like to compare it to the "Incoming" order, as it has the same effect of trading firepower for durability.

Full Speed Ahead!: Gives a unit a boosted flat out move, so I don't think it works on heavy vehicles. However, can be useful for getting units where they are needed quicker.

I quite like the orders they have added, they are too limited to be called overpowered and yet give the player some nice bonuses that they can throw about. As they affect squadrons, they become a much more viable choice when building a list. Good job too, as you will need squadrons if you want a decent number of russes in your list.

Wargear

Some varied upgrades for units:

Mine Plow - A more effective dozer blade that also gives bonuses when tank shocking.
Artificer Hull - Take a bonus hull point.
Track Guards - Guards for tracks, pretty simple. You get a save against immobilised results.
Improved Comms - Improved order range.
AA Mounts - These give skyfire to pintle weapons. I'm not too sure how effective stubbers and stormbolters will be against air units, although it is nice to have the option for cheap AA if you need it.
Anti-grenade Mesh - Gives you a save against grenades.

Specialist Ammunition - Command and Commissar tanks can take alternative ammunition types, with varying effects. Some are limited to certain tank types:

Infernus - LRBTs; a cover ignoring shell.
Illum - Flares to combat night fighting.
Augur - Conqueror; Similar effects to the Necron's entropic strike rule.
Beast Hunter - Vanquisher; a small blast weapon which inflicts instant death. I like being able to use blasts with vanquishers again, although in a limited scope.

Warlord Traits

I don't really want to list these as it is hard to do so without just copying the table. They do seem a good mix though, not too useless or too powerful. The one that gives your warlord VPs for destroying things with ram attacks is odd, as I never really end up ramming. Should be fun to go mad and try to ram things every once in a while.

HQ

Company Command Tank

This is what I see most people taking, unless they want to try something a bit more oddball. Can be mounted in a standard LRBT or upgrade to exterminator, conqueror, annihilator, vanquisher or eradicator. Can issue a single order a turn and has a higher BS. Also one of the few tanks that can take an artificer hull or special ammunition upgrades.

A very nice centrepiece for your force. Pick whatever variant and weapons you think best and have at them. However, in an army or russes I foresee this tank drawing a lot of fire, so best to keep it safe somewhere. My personal choice is going to be a vanquisher with artificer hull (for durability) and beast hunter shells for some retro fun. This can get expensive though, as my current vanquisher with lascannon is over two hundred points before sponsons.

Armoured Fist Command Squad

Pretty much a PCS as an HQ choice, forced to take a chimera. Very good if you want to build a mechanised list with some support elements, instead of the standard heavy tank style list. Has the option of upgrading to a company commander.

Salamander Reconnaissance Commander

Fast, cheap and can give out tank orders; this is the budget HQ. Still, you get a nice unit, if a bit fragile. Also comes with an auspex that can debuff enemy cover saves.

Captain Obadiah Schfeer

A beefed up command vanquisher with a few of the wargear choices and the tank-killers rule (I think this means tank-hunters USR). He also replaces your warlord trait with his own if he is used as the warlord. His trait gives him an aura that makes it LD checks harder for enemies.

General Grizmund

Another beefed up tank, this time a command LRBT. He gets a standard and a different warlord trait that improves a single squadrons BS. I can see this being quite nice with some of the non-blast squadrons.

Elites

Commissar Tank

Commissar tanks were demoted to elites in this version, although this does give you the ability to take more than you used to. Can only take the lighter tank types, so no punisher/demolisher/executioner. They do have access to special ammunition though, so I expect the tanks that can use them will feature more commonly. They keep the LD bubble ability too.

Destroyer Tank Hunter Squadron

Very effective AT power. I used to find these a bit hit and miss (literally) with their poor BS. However, they have picked up the twin-linked rule and are now pretty reliable.

Atlas Recovery Tank

A techpriest in vehicle form, it can also drag immobilised vehicles around. It cannot repair things itself but if used with a techpriest it buffs his repairs and gives him a bonus repair action.

Armoured Fist Storm Trooper Squad

Stormtroopers in a chimera. They can still do everything they can in the codex, although have less of a place in ABG. Still, can be fun to have some deep striking or outflanking/infiltrating units.

Techpriest Enginseer

These hold the lofty position as the only infantry unit not forced to use a transport. However, they can use a trojan support vehicle as a dedicated transport if they wish. Trojans are cheap, made of paper and can give a unit nearby preferred enemy. Nice little transport if you want to have some support vehicles in your list.

Troops

Battle Tank Squadron

These are squadrons made up of the six lower rear armour variants. The only one worth adding a bit about is the conqueror, as it is an addition over the codex types.

The conqueror is an odd little tank. The main gun is a bit weaker than the standard cannon, and only comes with a small blast. However, the tank is not a heavy vehicle and it comes with a co-axial stormbolter, so is faster and more accurate than the standard. I can see these being used to give a bit of heavy armour to a fast flanking force, as they have the speed to keep up. They will really suffer if you use them as a line tanks though. I can see some merit to using them as a command or commissar tank though, able to lead a small flanking force and use augur shells to lower armour values. Sadly, the troop style ones can't use these rare shells though.

Siege Tank Squadron

These are the heavier armour tanks: demolisher, executioner, punisher and thunderer. Pretty standard stuff.

Armoured Fist Squad

A platoon infantry squad in a chimera. These are one of the only two scoring units the list has access to, unless you get the scoring unit warlord trait that is. They have the option to trade their lasguns for laspistols, so you could get some extra attacks.

Armoured Fist Veterans

The other scoring unit. However, they come as five man squads that can purchase up to five more men. Must buy either a centaur (if five models) or a chimera (if six to ten). There are two notable points about this unit. Firstly, they can only take two special weapons (I'll just wait over there until the hate disappears). Secondly, the base price seems to not reflect their new 5+5 purchasing format, making them rather over costed. I'm pretty confident that this second point is in error though, and will be letting people play with what I deem to be the correct codex price.

Dedicated Transports

Chimera

Standard chimera, can take an autocannon turret.

Centaur Carrier

A fast and fragile transport, it can tow artillery if it wants to. You are really paying for speed with this, it will let you get troops where you need them quickly.

Fast Attack

Scout Sentinel Squadron

Pretty similar, except it gets to take the multiple rocket pod from the valkyrie.

Armoured Sentinel Squadron

Same, also gets the MRP option.

Imperial Navy Gunship Support

You can a single squadron of vendettas or vultures, although you can't mix the two. Gives the list some nice air support without making it possible to spam them.

Tauros Strike Squadron

Fast, all terrain vehicles. The squadrons can mix normal or the heavier venator types. These are a decent alternative to sentinels, probably better as they get some fun special rules covering movement.

Salamander Recon Squadron

Fast tanks with scout, one of the heavier fast vehicles available to imperial forces. I can see these used to add weight to fast formations of vehicles. They seem like a better version of an armoured sentinel.

Hellhound Squadron

Some various infernal canine types for your enjoyment.

Heavy Support

Hydra Flak Tank Battery

Same as always. I was hoping for interceptor and a price increase to compensate.

Ordnance Battery

Basilisks or medusa. You can mix but I don't know why you would.

Griffon Strike Battery

Some griffons.

Colossus Bombard Battery

Just the standard colossus. I think the name is an attempt to say that the chimera and russ hulls really don't matter anymore, they are all colossus mortars.

Armoured Fist Heavy Weapon Squad

A HWS in a chimera, pretty much. They will eat up your heavy slots, although if you don't use artillery you should have spare heavy slots anyway. Has the option to buy a vox-caster, which I think some people will have fun with.

Armoured Fist Cyclops Demolition Squad

You get a pair of remote control bombs mounted in a chimera. I can see these being a fun unit but I doubt they will be seen as super awesome. Walk the bombs up to an enemy and explode pretty much on demand.

Imperial Navy Air Support

Thunderbolts, lightnings or avengers bought as singletons. All fulfil slightly different support rolls.

A Few Notes on Allies

ABG lists are identical to Guard on the allies matrix, except that they are also battle brothers to Codex:IG. This makes them a nice alternative to Guard if you want some allies. For instance, you may not want extra infantry in your force and prefer to have just some vehicle support. In this case you could take a cheap command salamander (or a command russ for some more points) and a troop choice russ. This is pretty cheap, with the minimum spend for allies being 225. With this you could put in a vendetta, some artillery or hydras. I can see this being a very nice addition to many armies. The units even have extra wargear choices, like chaff for the vendetta. I think it is an excellent ally for codex Guard armies, as it allows you to fit in just one more of what you want. Say you want three manticores but still want a russ or two, this will help. Or if you want a forth vendetta squadron, or even three vendettas and a vulture, with maybe an avenger to back it up.

As for allies to take for an ABG, codex Guard seems like a good idea. A mechanised platoon would be a way to add scoring units yet still have room for six single russes in your ABG choices. Or you could use it to pick up a second vendetta, or more russes in the heavy slots. As I am a Guard player I will leave it to others to come up with good combos from other codices.

Conclusion

Well that was my quick and dirty ABG list overview. I hope that most people who have read this will now have a better idea of the list.

I really can't judge its power level yet, although it seems quite weak to me. The lack of scoring units and vulnerability to melee is quite horrible, but is made up for with massive firepower. I know a lot of people could be concerned if they see a dozen tanks across the table, over half of which are russes.

I am planning to let people tailor a bit against my army, at least at first. I would rather be on the losing end and then work out how to get better than foster ABG hate by stomping everyone. Going out in a fiery blaze of twisted metal and enemy corpses and losing sounds better to me than wiping people off the board with little resistance. I suggest that if you face a ABG you pay close attention to terrain placement, an open battlefield may spell your doom. Maybe just use bigger bits of terrain, or count small pieces as half towards the limit in the alternating terrain setup.

Please feel free to ask questions or post observations.

Interesting read. Off the top of my head I can't think of any cool combos, but it might be fun in higher points games. Thanks for the post.

 Trickstick wrote:
I've been reading my copy of IA1:2nd and quite enjoying it. However, after making some posts there does not seem to be a massive interest in the subject of the new armoured battle group (ABG for short) list that was included.

Probably because the book was just released. I ordered mine as soon as it was available, and I still don't have my copy. I suspect a lot of people are in the same position, all we know is what little we've heard from other people discussing the book, so there's not much point in having detailed strategy discussions yet.

(Of course, to be more realistic, expect more interest in the list once someone posts a scan of the book and everyone downloads it.)

Armoured Fist Veterans

The other scoring unit. However, they come as five man squads that can purchase up to five more men. Must buy either a centaur (if five models) or a chimera (if six to ten). There are two notable points about this unit. Firstly, they can only take two special weapons (I'll just wait over there until the hate disappears). Secondly, the base price seems to not reflect their new 5+5 purchasing format, making them rather over costed. I'm pretty confident that this second point is in error though, and will be letting people play with what I deem to be the correct codex price.

TBH, I don't really care too much about only having two special weapons. The HQ tax to take codex veteran squads is pretty minimal (and a melta CCS is pretty nice to have around, especially when it doesn't give up 'slay the warlord' points), so you don't really lose anything. The unit is still garbage, of course, but it's so easy to fix it's hard to get outraged about it.

As for using it, the only reason I'd ever consider it is if I'm taking 5-man Centaur squads. The Centaur model is tiny, so hiding a single scoring unit out of LOS might not be a terrible idea.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
I've been reading my copy of IA1:2nd and quite enjoying it. However, after making some posts there does not seem to be a massive interest in the subject of the new armoured battle group (ABG for short) list that was included.

Probably because the book was just released. I ordered mine as soon as it was available, and I still don't have my copy. I suspect a lot of people are in the same position, all we know is what little we've heard from other people discussing the book, so there's not much point in having detailed strategy discussions yet.

(Of course, to be more realistic, expect more interest in the list once someone posts a scan of the book and everyone downloads it.)

Oh yeah, it'll take a while for everyone to get it who has ordered it. I just thought a general overview would help out some of the people who are undecided. I also thought it would be nice to consolidate all of the little scraps of information into one place, to make it easier for people to find.

I just looked up some pictures of the centaur, I really had not realised that it was so small. A small, fast scoring unit seems like a really good buy.

The moment I can find a PDF or a copy of the book at my store I'll be reading it like crazy to see if I want it (odds point to VERY YES)

I had an idea for an Armored Battlegroup list before the new book came out, but it was completely trashed thanks to the changes. Things like the commissar tank changing from HQ to elite, crew skills being gone (good bye S6 29 shot punishers :( ) and the changes to upgrades means I'll have to redo it.

On the plus side, it looks like all the things I was planning to do became easier to accomplish with this new list, so maybe it's a good thing. I was going to take regular IG as allies so that I could have some cheap scoring troops, and use the armored battlegroup list as the muscle. 11 individual slots to run tanks means that I would never have to squadron if I didn't want to, which is always a good thing.

A couple of questions though. One, what happened to the Platoon Command tank that used to be in elites? Was it replaced with the commissar tank? Also, what about the thunderer? I thought it counted as a troops choice now and could be bought in the same squadron as the demolisher, punisher, and executioner. Finally, which of those vehicle upgrades were exclusive to command tanks, and which are available for all. For example, surely track guards can be bought for all tanks. What about the others though?

It's stuff like this that makes me wish I played Guard...
Maybe I can convert a looted battlegroup and ally it in...

Hmmm I like the sounds of Autocannon Turrets on Chimera's that I feel is what the current Chimera is missing. I just might need to buy this book and put my old Amoured Company back together

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I had an idea for an Armored Battlegroup list before the new book came out, but it was completely trashed thanks to the changes. Things like the commissar tank changing from HQ to elite, crew skills being gone (good bye S6 29 shot punishers :( ) and the changes to upgrades means I'll have to redo it.

On the plus side, it looks like all the things I was planning to do became easier to accomplish with this new list, so maybe it's a good thing. I was going to take regular IG as allies so that I could have some cheap scoring troops, and use the armored battlegroup list as the muscle. 11 individual slots to run tanks means that I would never have to squadron if I didn't want to, which is always a good thing.

A couple of questions though. One, what happened to the Platoon Command tank that used to be in elites? Was it replaced with the commissar tank? Also, what about the thunderer? I thought it counted as a troops choice now and could be bought in the same squadron as the demolisher, punisher, and executioner. Finally, which of those vehicle upgrades were exclusive to command tanks, and which are available for all. For example, surely track guards can be bought for all tanks. What about the others though?

Well elite commissars are both good and bad. You can't have a commissar warlord, but you can have 5 bs4 russes now. 8 if you use Grizmund to get a bs4 troop squadron. It is a shame that command and commissar tanks can't be punishers though, bs4 punishers would be nice. There is always Grizmund though.

As for your questions:

Platoon command tanks are now the armoured fist command HQ choice, which you can upgrade to company command.

I forgot the thunderer! It is part of the siege troop choice, I'll edit it in.

For upgrades, the HQ and commissar tanks can take them all. Russ hulls and salamanders can take everything but artificer armour and special ammunition.

I love the AC turret Chimeras and MRP sentinels, almost salivating at the thought of the carnage I could wreak with these.

Sorry, I wrote the name wrong. When I said armored fist command tank I meant to put armored company platoon commander. It was a basic russ in the elite slot that was a "platoon command tank". I dont think it had anything special about it whatsoever, it was just an excuse to have russes in your elite slots.

From the sound of it, they replaced it with the commissar tank.

Yeah, I never really saw the point of that "squadron command tank". They should have had a special rule to buff tanks slightly or something.

Anyway, they seem to have been merged with commissars.

 Trickstick wrote:
Yeah, I never really saw the point of that "squadron command tank". They should have had a special rule to buff tanks slightly or something.

You used to have to take an elite squadron command tank to unlock two troops tanks (single tanks, NOT squadrons). The pdf update removed this rule (probably for simplicity, and because now you had squadrons of tanks in a single FOC slot) but kept the squadron command tank option in the elite slot because there was no reason to remove it with such a limited "just enough to be playable" update, and now the complete re-write of the list has cleaned up the redundant option.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Yeah, I never really saw the point of that "squadron command tank". They should have had a special rule to buff tanks slightly or something.

You used to have to take an elite squadron command tank to unlock two troops tanks (single tanks, NOT squadrons). The pdf update removed this rule (probably for simplicity, and because now you had squadrons of tanks in a single FOC slot) but kept the squadron command tank option in the elite slot because there was no reason to remove it with such a limited "just enough to be playable" update, and now the complete re-write of the list has cleaned up the redundant option.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that rule.

As I read over your review Ive found this book to sounds amazing! I would love to try this list out but to be honest I think it would be great at 2500+pts because I believe the general idea of the ABG is to squeeze as many russes as possible in a list and at 2000pts thatd be hard. I mention this because as I would love to try this out and get the book I simply dont play much over 2000pts rarely we try 2500pts.

From my understanding you can get a squadron of russes for 1 troop choice?

tankboy145 wrote:
I believe the general idea of the ABG is to squeeze as many russes as possible in a list

Not really. The reason is to get as many effective tanks into your list as possible. With a codex army you're limited to three single tanks before you have to start taking much less effective squadrons, and only that many if you give up all other heavy support options. This makes taking LR spam a bad idea in a codex army. With an armored battlegroup list, on the other hand, you can take 3-5 independent tanks AND still have good support units.

i have a little question to ask... as my book is in the post...

are the Russ squadrons still "independent" i.e you can take 1-3 of them as a choice and they can act independently of each other?

otherwise i can't wait to get hold of my copy i've been itching to give my ABG a run out

@tankboy145- you don't really try to spam russes 3 armoured fist squads are in my 1750pts but it goes along with 7 russes of various types

it all depends on what you want to do, i did the army just for fun, but perhaps i should have used it last week- i got roped in to give some new people at my club a multiplayer intro game (as deputy 40k team leader...) as it would have been more fun to watch the new folks try to kill them all rather than facing our guard supremo with his vendettas


though i might remove the demolisher/take off the plasma cannons as they are a bit naff now they changed the russ rules...

The troop russes are the same as the codex heavy support ones, you get them in squadrons of 1-3.

My list right now has 7 russes and 3 armoured fists. I am using the troop russes in pairs so that I can give orders better and fit the scoring units in without allies. Squadrons are nowhere near as bad as they were back in 5th, you can do a lot of cool things with them now.

I am considering swapping them out for a primaris and a small mech platoon, although I would have to cut something to do this at 1750. I have heard talk that we were going to make 1850 the standard though, which would help a bit.

I am enjoying the use of cheap russes in list building. I will have to wait and see if they are as good in the field.

 Trickstick wrote:
The troop russes are the same as the codex heavy support ones, you get them in squadrons of 1-3

thanks for that, i supposed that had to happen - something to read up on in the rulebook i think...

Ahhh I see well that could help russes out now that you take them as troops and they have all those support units. Im really interested in this book now I just wish I didnt have to order from forge world as the books a bit pricey lol.

Art_of_war wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The troop russes are the same as the codex heavy support ones, you get them in squadrons of 1-3

thanks for that, i supposed that had to happen - something to read up on in the rulebook i think...

You do realize that you have enough slots to have up to 11 individual leman russes without using squadrons right? You should have no trouble finding room to keep your tanks seperate if thats what you want

I don't have access to the Armored Battlegroup list yet, so please correct me if anything is terribly wrong.

That said, what about using Eldar Corsairs as your main force, with an allied Leman Russ contingent. The Corsair squads can be highly mobile, and jump shoot jump to stay safe. Hiding behind AV 14 armor walls is also a possibility. That should keep these fairly fragile squads safe until you need them to score, while your tanks engage the enemy. With Eldar Missile Launchers, the corsairs can pitch in at 48" as well.
Theoretically, the Void Prince could let a squadron of Russes Deepstrike. Demolisher cannons anyone? (Yes, this is a somewhat questionable interpretation, but I would say it is valid under RAW. Incidentally, would Creed be able to outflank allies?)
You can still fit a fair amount of russes in an allied force org chart, even if you only squadron up to two (1 HQ, 1 Commissar or 2-3 Destroyers, 2x 2-3 Troops)
Also, you get access to a fair amount of fliers. I'm not sure if the eldar fliers are all that good, but they are certainly survivable.

Also, does anyone have some more info on the Destroyer Tank Hunter Squadron?

I had no idea they were redoing this book and since I have about a dozen Russes of various flavors I'm pretty excited about this.

The biggest problem I see this list having is it's few and fragile scoring units. I suppose the idea is to wipe out most of the enemy with shooting but I'm not 100% that it'll be able to do that consistently. That said, my group is already cool with playing against this list so I just need to get my family to ship the rest of my Russes from the States and wait for my book to arrive.

I think corsairs could work, although I try to stick with battle brothers myself, to make things easier.

Irdiumstern wrote:
Also, does anyone have some more info on the Destroyer Tank Hunter Squadron?

Sure. They are pretty much the same as they were before, just with a twin-linked main gun that has a bit lower strength. You can use the old rules here for a better idea of what it does.

It is pretty similar to a vanquisher with stubber, although the destroyer is much better at ranges outside of 36". It is probably the best tank sniper that the Imperium have before you get to a shadowsword. I don't know if I would ever squadron them unless I had to, they seem better as roaming hunter killers or ambush tanks. Sticking one with camo nets behind an ADL would be evil for a lot of armies to deal with, although it would need support.

The model looks awesome too.

Irdiumstern wrote:
I don't have access to the Armored Battlegroup list yet, so please correct me if anything is terribly wrong.

That said, what about using Eldar Corsairs as your main force, with an allied Leman Russ contingent. The Corsair squads can be highly mobile, and jump shoot jump to stay safe. Hiding behind AV 14 armor walls is also a possibility. That should keep these fairly fragile squads safe until you need them to score, while your tanks engage the enemy. With Eldar Missile Launchers, the corsairs can pitch in at 48" as well.
Theoretically, the Void Prince could let a squadron of Russes Deepstrike. Demolisher cannons anyone? (Yes, this is a somewhat questionable interpretation, but I would say it is valid under RAW. Incidentally, would Creed be able to outflank allies?)
You can still fit a fair amount of russes in an allied force org chart, even if you only squadron up to two (1 HQ, 1 Commissar or 2-3 Destroyers, 2x 2-3 Troops)
Also, you get access to a fair amount of fliers. I'm not sure if the eldar fliers are all that good, but they are certainly survivable.

Also, does anyone have some more info on the Destroyer Tank Hunter Squadron?

i thought eldar were desperate allies? If thats the case they cant hold objectives. Either way, i know they're definitely not battle brothers, so you couldn't use any eldar abilities on your IG and vice versa. They treat each other as enemy units in al respects, so i doubt an eldar ability that lets you deepstrike things would work on them.

I have to admit though, i did come up with a pretty funny idea for using an "armored krumpany" orks/ armored battlegroup list. Do a battlewagon convoy, and then take some thunderers in an armored battlegroup detachement. From what I've heard, the thunderers dont have lumbering behemoth, so they could kep up with the battlewagons easily. They also add even more av 14, and AP 2 S10 templates that the orks dont have access too. If you put them on the flanks of the convoy, the thunderers could use their tougher side armor to keep the battlewagons from dying to shots in the side armor and other shenanigans. Plus, the thunderers even make more sense fluffwise, as they're repaired demolishers. If orks were "fixing" demolishers, thats how they would show up. Only thing I haven't figured out yet is what to take as an HQ for the armored battlegroup detachment. Could maybe take the conqueror (whatever the one is that has the smaler shells and can move faster) with the shells that lower the enemy AV, as that could keep up with the convoy and help deal with armor.

I would be taking the Eldar Corsairs as the main list, so their troops can score. Leman's don't score anyway, and you can still fit plenty of armor in an allied detachment.

It's a question for ymdc of course, but the thread seems fairly split. Orks have a similar case with their mad doc.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
..."armored krumpany"...

That's a pretty good idea, although I would have gone for "Armork'd Kumpany". You are correct in stating that thunderers are not heavy and can keep up. Conqueror would work well, with a hull flamer. Alternatively, you could use the cheaper salamander. A bit faster, able to debuff cover saves and can still give out orders. Maybe a devil dog too, as orks have a distinct lack of melta.

 Trickstick wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
..."armored krumpany"...

That's a pretty good idea, although I would have gone for "Armork'd Kumpany". You are correct in stating that thunderers are not heavy and can keep up. Conqueror would work well, with a hull flamer. Alternatively, you could use the cheaper salamander. A bit faster, able to debuff cover saves and can still give out orders. Maybe a devil dog too, as orks have a distinct lack of melta.

Nah devil dog would detract from the idea of a wall of AV 14. And besides, with that many demolisher cannons, deff rollas, and PK's, armor will be the least of your worries.

The idea is a hard hitting, fast, and rediculously hard to kill at range armored sledgehammer that just plows into the enemy line and grinds them to dust. Anything that isn't AV14 or riding in something AV 14 would weaken the idea of the list significantly.

 Trickstick wrote:
Alternatively, you could use the cheaper salamander. A bit faster, able to debuff cover saves and can still give out orders.

Where are you getting the "still give out orders" part? Maybe I just suck at reading, but I can't find anything that suggests that it still has the old "orders as CCS" rule.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Alternatively, you could use the cheaper salamander. A bit faster, able to debuff cover saves and can still give out orders.

Where are you getting the "still give out orders" part? Maybe I just suck at reading, but I can't find anything that suggests that it still has the old "orders as CCS" rule.

The HQ salamander can give out a tank order a turn. It can't give out CCS orders anymore.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Alternatively, you could use the cheaper salamander. A bit faster, able to debuff cover saves and can still give out orders.

Where are you getting the "still give out orders" part? Maybe I just suck at reading, but I can't find anything that suggests that it still has the old "orders as CCS" rule.

The HQ salamander can give out a tank order a turn. It can't give out CCS orders anymore.

Oh, I was looking at the command Salamander that's available to normal IG, which just became useless. Too bad an armored company list isn't going to waste a precious HQ slot on a mere Salamander.


And as that statement suggests, my copy of the book has finally arrived, and I'll post my thoughts later.