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Doesn't change the fact that it's a copout. A good story is in large part determined by its characters, and a character is in turn defined by its writers struggle with the consequences of the choices that character has to make. What consequences does Joe Blow at Marvel have to deal with when the line of thought is, "Well, if such and such character doesn't do x or does y, then no big deal because Bob can write that timeline out in his alternate story." Comics, especially Marvel comics (Marvel has become notorious for this. While DC has the alternate timeline thing too, it is much more limited and clean than Marvel's and is large part use to differentiate between the Golden Age/Silver Age incarnations of a character rather than as parallel continuing story arcs), have become rather flat, 2 dimensional, and boring IMO as a result of this direction. The comics that my father grew up with 20 + years ago were much deeper, more dramatic, engaging and enthralling than they are today. In fact, I'd say that comics today are not entirely unlike GW background material, especially the stuff penned by Matt Ward.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Wolverine dies all the time. It's part of his charm and part of who he is (as well as a smell, hairy, cigar chomping syrup hugger). Spider-Man does not include dying as part of his charm. We see Wolverine get blown up by Nitro in Civil War, no biggie-he'll be back. Deadpool blows his brains out? He'll regen them and be back to normal. Crashes into a sun? Phoenix will save him. Goes through the infinity gate (forgot its name in the 80s). He'll come back in Australia. Spidey does not have any of these things.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: Wolverine dies all the time. It's part of his charm and part of who he is (as well as a smell, hairy, cigar chomping syrup hugger). Spider-Man does not include dying as part of his charm. We see Wolverine get blown up by Nitro in Civil War, no biggie-he'll be back. Deadpool blows his brains out? He'll regen them and be back to normal. Crashes into a sun? Phoenix will save him. Goes through the infinity gate (forgot its name in the 80s). He'll come back in Australia. Spidey does not have any of these things.
The thing people keep on going on about is "Peter Parker will never stay dead".
Spoiler:
In this case, Peter Parker's body isn't dead, it just isn't his body any more, and is being inhabited by a reformed Doctor Octopus.
Parker's mind was, however, swapped into Doc Ock's body, which has now died, with his mind having previously gone to heaven for a short period of time, and now being, as far as can be told, permanently dead.
Basically, Parker as Otto Octavious is dead, but Otto Octavius as Peter Parker isn't.
aosol wrote: Do spidermanz have resurrection sickness?
He's moments from having Dr.Strange wiggle his fingers at him and giving birth to yet another forgettable character.
Point of this setup currently is that nobody knows they've switched minds. How many psychics does Spidey usually come in contact with? Xavier? He's dead too (or at least his clone is-real Xavier has been dead since the 80s). Phoenix? Hahahahaha. Cable? Pretty sure he's never had a run in with Spidey. Oracle (Shi'Ar)? No contact. Can Strange discover the new mind inside of Spider-Man? Sure, he can register the negative energy. And it may eventually happen, if the fans hate the new direction of Spider-Man and stop buying comics. It all depends on the fans. If people like the new direction, and people keep buying the comic, Peter Parker will stay dead. If people hate it, Strange or somebody with similar powers will bring him back. All depends on sales, really.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
chaos0xomega wrote: **HARRY POTTER AND ARKHAM CITY SPOILERS AHEAD. DON'T READ THIS POST IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE A BITCH ABOUT IT**
Yeah but (in my opinion) the alternate universe thing just cheapens a characters identity, and its why I quit comic books save for select issues and story arcs that appeal to me. The character is not TRULY dead if he still exists in a parallel timeline. Its a copout, and a very cheap one at that. I understand that it gives the writers a lot of literary freedom and all but IMO it stunts character development and removes a lot of the emotional attachment to the characters, etc. Especially on the writers part.
Take Harry Potter for example. I hardly consider myself a fan, I read the books and loved them, but I never dressed up, nor did I ever bother watching the films. When certain characters died (Sirius, Dumbledore) I actually cried. Why? Because they were dead and they would probably stay dead. Likewise they stayed dead.
Now lets take Arkham City... when Joker died (amongst others) at the end of the game, I was in shock... I started to shed a tear because I am a HUGE Batman fan and I have a deep appreciation and understanding of the Batman Joker dynamic. BUT then I remembered... he's been killed more than a few times before, and the games take place in the "Arkhamverse" which is a separate continuity from the rest... so, we have a likely non-permanent death (I'm aware the body was cremated in the spin-off comics, no need to bring it up), in a separate continuity, why do I need to feel emotionally attached to the fateof a character? Likewise, so you think Dini shed any tears when he killed the Joker lime Rowling did Sirius/Dumbledore? Doubt it.
At this point, killing of characters is a marketing decision. Like the article said they meet up and discuss what direction they should take etc. Writingba character should be a deeply emotional and intimate affair, not a boardroom decision.
If you haven't read Harry Potter by now, don't blame me if you click my spoiler tag.
Spoiler:
TBH though being dead didn't stop Sirius OR Dumbledore from helping out in the end.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Marvel, stop ruining your comics... What'd be next you'd make Deadpool gay? I'm not against gay superheroes but if I had to pick a gay one it would be antman.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jehan-reznor wrote: First marvel ruins the x-men and now they ruined spider man, i am glad i stopped reading marvel ages ago
They also butchered the Fantasic Four so bad that they are rebooting the series.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/29 10:42:55
Not giving you a hard time, but I think killing a comic character is a stupid gimmick because they never have the nads to follow through on it. Jean Grey...
If there's anyone who has an excuse for coming back from the dead, it's someone called Phoenix.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
I Desperatly wanted to get into comic books, But one factor stopped me.
Where the hell do i start? Who are these people? Is this the real peter parker or a clone?
hotsauceman1 wrote: I Desperatly wanted to get into comic books, But one factor stopped me.
Where the hell do i start? Who are these people? Is this the real peter parker or a clone?
For me personally?
I love Marvel Adventures, good place to ease into comics. It is much more family friendly/lighthearted than most of the mainstream stuff but I cant help but love it. Fun times all around usually. Shame they killed it a year or so ago, I love Marvel Adventures Spiderman especially. Though it is a different universe from 616/etc
Oh and dont bring up clones and spiderman....bad times (except the costume, Scarlet Spider has such a nice costume)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 17:44:32
hotsauceman1 wrote: I Desperatly wanted to get into comic books, But one factor stopped me.
Where the hell do i start? Who are these people? Is this the real peter parker or a clone?
Some people might think it's a gimic, but jumping on board with many of the Marvel Now series is a good place to start because they're all within the first 5 issues or so. This gives you time to catch up quickly and not have to know the massive backstory behind the characters.
I just started reading Cable and X-Force, and I have no idea who most of the people on the X-Force are... but it's only on issue 2, so I'm not missing much (did grab #1)
And it's not a clone, this is the real Peter Parker's body with Doctor Octavius's mind.
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
Most of the current characters are not clones anymore: they've sorted most of those things out. Only clone I can honestly think of who had more time in the spotlight than the original was the Xavier clone. Regular Xavier lasted ~20 years, clone came in the mid 80s and lasted until this year.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 18:45:38
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I Desperatly wanted to get into comic books, But one factor stopped me.
Where the hell do i start? Who are these people? Is this the real peter parker or a clone?
I'd say that now is a very good time to get into a lot of marvel series. I only started reading comics about a month ago, but I'm enjoying the new series a lot (I'm reading Deadpool, Thunderbolts, and the issue of Spider-Man that this thread is about)
I'm probably going to read Superior Spider-Man when it's released as well, as it seems like a very good jumping on point.
The centre of a massive brood chamber, heaving and pulsating.
Meh.
Batman still has nothing on the sheer amount of deaths that the various Optimus Primes have racked up over the years.
Squigsquasher, resident ban magnet, White Knight, and general fethwit.
buddha wrote: I've decided that these GW is dead/dying threads that pop up every-week must be followers and cultists of nurgle perpetuating the need for decay. I therefore declare that that such threads are heresy and subject to exterminatus. So says the Inquisition!
TBD wrote: Last time I read comics EVERYBODY died to finish off Onslaught.
Nah, they just got sucked into an alternate dimension where Bucky was a girl and only Wolverine/Hawkeye knew he was from regular Earth. Everybody knows that.
I miss Age of Apocalypse: a lot of guys died in that one too (Apocalypse, Colossus, Shadowcat, Deadpool, Angel...list goes on.) Gotta re-read it when I get my new copy of the first book-it was destroyed in a flood a few years back.
I'm gonna check out Superior Spider-Man, but lord, if I hate 3 issues, I won't pick up another. That's what I gave the new Two and a Half Men: 3 episodes. It sucked, I didn't go back.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
I'm just... disappointed. After "One More Day" I quit Spider-Man for a good long while, and I only started reading it again late in mid-2011. Things were starting to pick up and now it has all been torn apart by another stupid gimmick.
I'll agree with timetowaste in that I'll give it a few issues, but if it isn't frigging spectacular I'm dropping it. I really don't see any possible future where I don't stop reading the title (at least until the whole Ock=Spidey thing ends), but I'm at least willing to entertain the possibility.
If things don't work out they will just create a scenario where it turns out Peter Parker's mind/consciousness only slipped into another dimension/reality/whatever and he didn't die after all
In a universe where everything is possible they can just spin it whichever way they want at any given time.
Fafnir wrote: And every time they do, things just get sillier and sillier.
There's a reason why I only read comics that are either one-offs or with endings.
You can also find good stories in the C-list team books, which may draw from a broader section of the universe but don't need any real foreknowledge. Take Villains United/Secret Six. Even though the events of the first miniseries are a direct consequence of the Identity Crisis crossover event, everything you need to know is established quickly: the superheroes did something to some villain called Doctor Light, and the supervillains are banding together in response to that.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Let's be honest here. By the time this happened, the character of Barry Allen had pretty much been reduced to a sad self-parody of what he used to be. I mean, the plastic surgery and the trial and such. And don't forget that the death was pretty stupid in and of itself. I mean running in a circle? To death? Seriously? I don't think anyone even cared about Barry Allen dying. I know I didn't. Wally West stepped up and everyone was like, "Meh. Whatevs."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/30 10:42:54
rockerbikie wrote:Marvel, stop ruining your comics... What'd be next you'd make Deadpool gay? I'm not against gay superheroes but if I had to pick a gay one it would be antman.
I'm sorry you were saying?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/30 15:10:49
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Haha. I forgot about that one. But Deadpool is bi at most. He's head over heels for Syren: the daughter of the late Banshee. He's got a little man crush on Cable, that's all.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: Haha. I forgot about that one. But Deadpool is bi at most. He's head over heels for Syren: the daughter of the late Banshee. He's got a little man crush on Cable, that's all.
Think that one came out of the Deadpool and Cable series, but yeah... He's got a bit of a man Crush on Cyclops's son
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/30 15:46:30
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
he is 
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
(except the costume, Scarlet Spider has such a nice costume)
