Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Neorealist wrote:
Purchased, yes. But not 'effective'. As written purchasing psybolt ammunition for a strike squad effects the entire unit and continues to effect the entire unit after deployment until the end of the game. There is no provision to indicate anything leaving or joining said unit isn't included in 'the entire unit' for that specific purpose.

The purchase for the ammo is for the entire unit, (at army creation). That grants the entire unit (of Terminators, or whatever unit) PBA. Points spent at army creation do not carry into the game. PBA states that "A model equipped with PBA counts...." Those units that purchased PBA at creation gain that. There is no mechanic in the game that allows you to attach ICs to unit predeployment to allow it to gain PBA. By the time the IC can join with the unit at Deployment, PBA is already listed in each Terminator's wargear.

Interestingly enough, there is a huge debate as to whether or not Justicar Thawn is able to use PBA purchased by his GKT squad, since he is a special character with specific war gear and no options to upgrade. The general consensus is that Thawn does gain the benefit of PBA purchased by his squad until he first dies, at which point he is no long a member of that squad. The argument for this is that the squad purchasing PBA is the only unit able to benefit from that PBA, which is not conferred to any units that become attacked to the squad at any point in the game. And since Thawn is both no longer attached and has his own set profile upon resurrecting, he would lose access to a PBA upgrade purchased by his former squad.

So, no, Independent Characters attaching themselves to a unit with PBA will not gain access to PBA unless they purchase PBA as one of their own specific upgrades.

As to Quad Cannons and PBA, Quads aren’t listed as benefiting from PBA, despite being Auto Cannons in everything but name.

SJ

Thawn is an upgrade character to a squad. If the squad buys PBA he would gain the benefits. When he dies and comes back has no effect on him having PBA. You FOC will list Thawn as having PBA as his wargear when he is deployed. You have no permission to change his wargear when he "dies"

Fragile wrote:
Thawn is an upgrade character to a squad. If the squad buys PBA he would gain the benefits. When he dies and comes back has no effect on him having PBA. You FOC will list Thawn as having PBA as his wargear when he is deployed. You have no permission to change his wargear when he "dies"

You better be careful with that, as that would lead to allowing Necron Lords with Warscythes attached to lychguard squads able to switch out the WS for Hyperphase swords and disruption shields as well.

And this whole debate going on, man if this is the way it is then I'm ALWAYS taking a Tomb blade with shadowlooms and Nebulscopes so my IC's can have BS5 and Stealth.

A Necron lord is an IC , not a upgrade character (like a sergeant). Therefore he has his own wargear he is allowed to purchase.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Thawn is an upgrade character to a squad. If the squad buys PBA he would gain the benefits. When he dies and comes back has no effect on him having PBA. You FOC will list Thawn as having PBA as his wargear when he is deployed. You have no permission to change his wargear when he "dies"

You better be careful with that, as that would lead to allowing Necron Lords with Warscythes attached to lychguard squads able to switch out the WS for Hyperphase swords and disruption shields as well.

And this whole debate going on, man if this is the way it is then I'm ALWAYS taking a Tomb blade with shadowlooms and Nebulscopes so my IC's can have BS5 and Stealth.

Well no, because the Necron Lord isn't part of the Lytchguard at the time of list creation(unlike Thawn who is part of the Terminators) the Necron Lord is part of the Royal Court.

Fragile wrote:
A Necron lord is an IC , not a upgrade character (like a sergeant). Therefore he has his own wargear he is allowed to purchase.

No, an overlord is an IC. A lord is a squad leader (or whatever you want to call it).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Thawn is an upgrade character to a squad. If the squad buys PBA he would gain the benefits. When he dies and comes back has no effect on him having PBA. You FOC will list Thawn as having PBA as his wargear when he is deployed. You have no permission to change his wargear when he "dies"

You better be careful with that, as that would lead to allowing Necron Lords with Warscythes attached to lychguard squads able to switch out the WS for Hyperphase swords and disruption shields as well.

And this whole debate going on, man if this is the way it is then I'm ALWAYS taking a Tomb blade with shadowlooms and Nebulscopes so my IC's can have BS5 and Stealth.

Well no, because the Necron Lord isn't part of the Lytchguard at the time of list creation(unlike Thawn who is part of the Terminators) the Necron Lord is part of the Royal Court.

Why isn't it? You select a unit of lychguard to purchase and choose a previously purchased lord to lead them then buy upgrades for the squad. I don't see where it says you have to purchase upgrades before acquiring upgrade characters (which lords and crypteks are).

More so I should specify that I do not see where it details out HOW to create your army, only that you add point costs and upgrade costs. The only limitation regarding this is that IC's can only attach during or after deployment, but adding characters is specifically "before the battle".

Lords and Crypteks are allocated prior to deployment, which is after list building iirc.

rigeld2 wrote:
Lords and Crypteks are allocated prior to deployment, which is after list building iirc.

I edited above, but the codex simply says "before the battle". Nothing more, nothing less.

Going off the order of the rulebook, "before the battle" is during list creation.

But yes, I understand that the lord/cryptek is not purchased WITH the lychguard specifically, I'm simply pointing out that the rule for purchasing their wargear does also say "the entire unit" and a lord/cryptek assigned to lead them is then, for all intents and purposes, considered a lychguard unit member and therefore makes up part of "the entire unit" pre-game, and could be included in the purchase of said wargear (well, really on a lord with warscythe since it does specify you have to trade in a warscythe for HPS/DS) IF you simply say an upgrade character to a squad can purchase that squads wargear. That's a general statement.

More over it should be stated that only an upgrade character purchased as part of the units cost can use their wargear if also purchased for that member.

. ""Each entry in the army list represents a different unit."" pg 87 of the Codex. Necron Lords are a different unit than the Lyche Guard. They have their own purchasable upgrades, Thawn takes the place of the Justicar in a unit.

the difference between Thawn and a lord is that a Lord is bought from the royal court and added during the same time as you would add ICs to other units during deployment. Thawn is a purchased upgrade of a already existing character model just like the Tau Team Leader>El upgrade, except in Thawn's case both the justicar and he are characters. However after that the rules get loopy, as the Character rules apparently were written without knowing the necrons existed apparently, as our only character models are from the Royal Court. Why they didn't just go the way of the Eldar and make it so that the units that can be joined by a lord or cryptek just purchase them as just another upgrade like the warlock. And then have a section labeled "Necron Lord Wargear"....there is already a similar section for Crypteks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and no, before the battle is synonymous with during deployment phase. Building your list should come before you even get your models out of their cases/whatever you carry them in. You dont purchase upgrades and make a list as you deploy.