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 loreweaver wrote:
The point of this is so that you can cast Scryer's Gaze on yourself before rolling for reserves.

This is what i agree with, but that is RAI so we won't use that to prove anything.

The outflanking roll i think make is a little less clear, (i'll give you that) but not completely unclear. No where does it say the call the D6 to determine the side, is called a Outflanking roll, I could interpret it that way, but i could also interpret as the reserve roll for outflanking unit.

When an Outflanking unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a I -2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player's own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right.

Therefore it could also refer the the reserves roll for outflanking units, since it's says etc... meaning there is more then just outflank and reserves. The next thing i think of is DS and there isn't a roll for DS (other then reserves roll)
Without interpretations the words "outflank roll" do not directly mean anything.

This directly states that the D6 for determining side edge is not rolled at the exact same time as the D6 for reserves but after and other actions (such as blind from Warp talons deep striking) can interrupt this process,

At the start of your Turn Two,you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn. ... When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below...

It also doesn't say they arrive right away, it does allow a space for other actions to happen. Now what actions are those? Resolving other start of turn powers for one, and i am not sure what other powers come into play but I haven't memorized every special character from every codex.

 loreweaver wrote:
The point of this is so that you can cast Scryer's Gaze on yourself before rolling for reserves.

It would be an unusable power for two of its three functions. Blessings end when the casting player's next player turn begins. If reserve rolls and outflank rolls happen before the casting of that spell then they wouldn't be affected by it. The exception being Mysterious Objectives because those can be rolled for at other points in a player turn; it depends when units move into proximity after all.

Luide wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Rolling a 3+ means the unit arrives from reserves. We are told that when a unit arrives from reserves, the unit moves on the table. There's no break in there - it just happens. Moving on is part of resolving the roll for reserves.

I thought so too, but on closer reading I cannot find the actual rule that says this. Arriving from Reserve just states: At the start of your Turn Two,you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn. If the roll is less than 3 it remains in reserve and is rolled for again next turn.. Note that it says "this turn", not immediately.

Note that the rule specifies that the unit arrives this turn, not immediately after rolling 3+ as you said it would. This is even specified even more clearly in the fifth paragraph:
When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below...
This means all Reserve Rolls have been made before any unit can move onto the table. Which is the crux of the argument: Can you argue that Reserve Rolls happen at same time as arriving from reserve, if rules require you to do all Reserve rolls before you can arrive from reserve?

I'm not arguing that reserve rolls happen at the same time as arriving from reserve - that's ludicrous.
I'm stating that a 3+ means the unit arrives from reserve this turn. When they arrive from reserve (which they just did) you must move them on the table.

It's that simple - when X happens, do Y. X happened - why are you not doing Y?

I thought you had to roll for all reserves before moving any of them onto the table? Is this still true (Away from my book ATM).

 DeathReaper wrote:
I thought you had to roll for all reserves before moving any of them onto the table? Is this still true (Away from my book ATM).

Yes, and that's consistent with my argument. I'm using a single unit as an example. My apologies if that was unclear.

rigeld2 wrote:

Luide wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Rolling a 3+ means the unit arrives from reserves. We are told that when a unit arrives from reserves, the unit moves on the table. There's no break in there - it just happens. Moving on is part of resolving the roll for reserves.

I thought so too, but on closer reading I cannot find the actual rule that says this. Arriving from Reserve just states: At the start of your Turn Two,you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn. If the roll is less than 3 it remains in reserve and is rolled for again next turn.. Note that it says "this turn", not immediately.

Note that the rule specifies that the unit arrives this turn, not immediately after rolling 3+ as you said it would. This is even specified even more clearly in the fifth paragraph:
When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below...
This means all Reserve Rolls have been made before any unit can move onto the table. Which is the crux of the argument: Can you argue that Reserve Rolls happen at same time as arriving from reserve, if rules require you to do all Reserve rolls before you can arrive from reserve?

I'm not arguing that reserve rolls happen at the same time as arriving from reserve - that's ludicrous.
I'm stating that a 3+ means the unit arrives from reserve this turn. When they arrive from reserve (which they just did) you must move them on the table.

It's that simple - when X happens, do Y. X happened - why are you not doing Y?

it says they arrive this turn, it doesn't say the arrive now. This turn is a long turn. even it if it did say "reserves arrive now" i would still argue since...
Force weapon FAQ means when x, y happens can be paused for something else..

failed armor saves says "the unit suffers a wound" and FNP says "When a unit suffers a wound" By your logic and mine previous to the FAQ, FNP would be activated before the force weapon however the faq (not errata) states that it gets interrupted.

Same logic The ROLL for reserves and manifestation of blessings happen at the same time. Same time is even a shorter time (0 time) after an event compared to even "instantaneously" after which is an infinitely small measurement but still greater then 0.

The roll for reserves and for outflanking happens at the same time, per the FAQ. This means that there's no time between rolling to arrive and rolling for outflank - ie a unit arriving.

rigeld2 wrote:I'm not arguing that reserve rolls happen at the same time as arriving from reserve - that's ludicrous.
I'm stating that a 3+ means the unit arrives from reserve this turn. When they arrive from reserve (which they just did) you must move them on the table.

It's that simple - when X happens, do Y. X happened - why are you not doing Y?

The trigger is setup, When X do Y.
Trigger X MIGHT happen (I still haven't found a rule of when during the turn (other then before movement and sometime after the reserve roll) that X happens. (X being "arrives from reserves"

Triggers setup:
At start of movement phase use blessings
At start of movement phase Roll for reserves
When reserves arrive, deploy them.

Now in action (following a first on first off policy that GW games seem t follow, unlike say magic the gathering that follows first on last off)
start of turn event triggers the use of blessing and the Roll for reserves, your turn you pick first. lets say you chose to roll for reserves first.
actions to happen are [Roll for reserves] -> [use blessings]
you roll for reserves, they arrive this turn.
Wait... where does it say that "now reserves arrive" or "then reserves arrive" just that they arrive this turn. Now actually deploying them does say before "normal" movement but we don't know when. All we know is it is before moment but after the RESERVE ROLL as specified in the FAQ.

rigeld2 wrote:The roll for reserves and for outflanking happens at the same time, per the FAQ. This means that there's no time between rolling to arrive and rolling for outflank - ie a unit arriving.

Please tell me where the permissive ruleset states what "outflank" roll is.

If a unit contains at least one model with this special rule, and that unit arrives on a random table edge (due to Outflank, or other special rules), then you can re-roll to see which table edge they arrive from.

Notice how it doesn't read, "If a unit contains at least one model with this special rule, and that unit arrives on a random table edge (due to Outflank, or other special rules), then you can re-roll the Outflank roll". if it did, i would agree with you, and if you want the outflank roll to mean the random table edge roll, please find somewhere a quote that refers to that roll as the "outflank roll" without any assumptions being made. Currently you are assuming that the Outflank Roll is the table edge roll and i am assuming it means arriving from outflanking reserves, reserves that are not normal reserves.

As stated else where on the forms, it's a permissive rule set and no term by GW means anything without it being defined.
Having said that I think you can define something that is undefined if it is blatantly obvious, example being the Doom from Nids argument of not actually killing anything.
This is obvious, however the "outflank roll", could mean 1 of 2 things and we don't have it defined as far as i can find.

I have to argue that you would roll to cast Scryers Blessing before you have to do reserves & outflank. It simply could not function otherwise. My grounds for this are that both begin at the start of the movement phase, which is the first part of a player turn. Therefore the choice is on the player which to do first.

Dont blessing n the such have a range on them? How could they target anything if they arent on the board yet? That alone would make me think i couldnt do it except to my own unit.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Dont blessing n the such have a range on them? How could they target anything if they arent on the board yet? That alone would make me think i couldnt do it except to my own unit.

Scryers Blessing affects reserve rolls, so it has no range.