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I don't know.
4 WS4 STR7 AP1 attacks on the charge with a defence of W3, T5 and 2+/3++ is something what I would call a good CC-unit.
A 50% chance to have the target do D3 attacks against himself makes them just insane.
A Chariot just gives him more attacks (4+D6) before he charges.
The reason he is not counted as a CC-IC is because they don't really have a "good enough" unit to go with.

The DLord's primary use is to go with Wraith's.

copper.talos wrote:
We are talking of CC overlords that can fair well in a challenge. And by challenge we don't mean a segeant, but an IC of equal points. With the barge the point cost of the overlord goes to 255pts. To do what? Fight alone a CC dedicated unit? He will surely lose. You give the overlord just a warscythe, scarabs and maybe a weave, put him on a CCB and he goes hunting non dedicated CC units. Hardly a match for a good CC oriented IC in a challenge without the scarabs, and with the scarabs he just has a good chance to survive.

For good CC, for those that know the game, the only way to go is DLord. Which he still needs the ms scarabs in a challenge.

Again, you are stating as fact things that are untrue. Factually, "those that know the game" also know that a CC overlord is worth his points. Against an equal pointed HQ he will have a damn good chance, without the MSS. With? No contest, usually

You act like you are the only arbiter of what is competitive, and that is an irritating position to hold when what you are stating is just wrong.

The necron lord is decent against characters 1v1.

But he has a huge weakness.

He is terrible vs units.

Unlike most HQs he has low initiative, low weaponskill, and fairly low attacks. MSS only affects one model, and if its some un named squad guy it won't help too much.

So he has high str and great AP? He is still only going to kill two models most times. Compared to some crazy chaos lord or daemon prince or what have you that is pretty weak.

Any decent close combat unit can weather his puny attacks, direct all their attacks at his unit, and then sweep them.

Then consolidate around his ever living token so that he can not use his reanimation protocols.

Yep, however that wasnt coppers contention, where he said an overlord isnt a good Challenge winning character - yet it is.

You win combat against overlords through simply overwhelming him with fodder

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yep, however that wasnt coppers contention, where he said an overlord isnt a good Challenge winning character - yet it is.

You win combat against overlords through simply overwhelming him with fodder

I wouldn't necessarily say fodder. You want to hit his unit with something that will overwhelm the warriors or immortals with him. You want to win combat by +5 or so to guarantee the sweeping advance. And with their low initiative the chances of them escaping the sweep are fairly poor.

The only problem is destroyer lord and wraiths. You really can't beat them in close combat at full strength. You have to dedicate a lot of fire to them then assault, and hope he doesn't hit you hard with all the stuff you had to ignore in order to take down the wraiths.

Kangodo wrote:
I don't know.
4 WS4 STR7 AP1 attacks on the charge with a defence of W3, T5 and 2+/3++ is something what I would call a good CC-unit.
A 50% chance to have the target do D3 attacks against himself makes them just insane.
A Chariot just gives him more attacks (4+D6) before he charges.
The reason he is not counted as a CC-IC is because they don't really have a "good enough" unit to go with.

The DLord's primary use is to go with Wraith's.

A weave on a bargelord is a waste he already has +1 to his save he is better off with a shifter and the barge is like buying a unit and tossing a ic into it. its a method to safely get the ic to where he needs to be

Kangodo wrote:
The reason he is not counted as a CC-IC is because they don't really have a "good enough" unit to go with.

The DLord's primary use is to go with Wraith's.

Exactly. You can't just view things in a vacuum. Just good statistics on an IC doesn't make it a good point investement. He wont survive by himself. He needs something good to join to and some way to deliver it to the enemy. What good will that overlord on a barge do against some assault termies? Nothing. And lets say there is a magical way to send a 175pt overlord and 5 Lychguard against Lysander and 5 assault termies, without them getting shot first. Would you do it and think you can surely win because of that overlord? The answer is definitely not. And since there is no magic way, aka an assault vehicle to get them to assault before getting shot to bits first, an expensive overlord is not a good point investment.

On the other hand, a unit of DLord with wraiths is excellent for CC. They move fast, hit hard and is fearless. Plus the inability for the DLord to have an invu is countered by the ms scarabs.


Edit: +1 to Kevlar. Exactly that.

DLord with preferred enemy can augment any squad. I use him all the time with a 20 man warrior squad then jump him out if I needed to go crush heads. The only real downside to the DLord is no court.

Copper - yet you were saying he wasnt a good challenge IC. Now, when that has been proven wrong oh so many times, you have decided to pretend that wasnt your argument all along.

And youre back with lychguard again. Apparently thats all you can fixate on,

Give up on lychguard! Even Praetorians are better then them now unless you give the guard scythes and have obyron in them to port them around

Sure, praetorians. A jump infantry unit with 3+ save, only 1 attack at I1 and no invu, joined to an infantry overlord. A real power house... Even them would be a lot better joining a DLord.

Kevlar wrote:
They do have crappy initiative though. A 100 point dreadnought is immune to MSS and will plaster the lord with one hit if he fails that invulnerable.

...and if he makes that 3++ (66% chance), he destroys the Dreadnought in return. I'll take that chance. In fact, have taken it multiple times already. Also fun: Wraiths + DL vs Dread. Boom.

copper.talos wrote:
Sure, praetorians. A jump infantry unit with 3+ save, only 1 attack at I1 and no invu, joined to an infantry overlord. A real power house... Even them would be a lot better joining a DLord.

So what about your original contention, that he wasnt a good challenge IC? Shown you you are wrong a few times now, care to counter?

OR are you back to only considering Lychguard?

 A GumyBear wrote:
But what thing with an AV will make it to the lord through the hail of gauss fire intact? ??

A Furioso dread on the back of a Stormraven will.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
But what thing with an AV will make it to the lord through the hail of gauss fire intact? ??

A Furioso dread on the back of a Stormraven will.

Unless the stormraven gets shot down with all the anni barges and night scythes

You all know better than this. The topic is NOT "is a Necron Lord a good CC choice." If you want to debate that, Tactics is available.

How does the challenge work really? I mean are the secluded from the other units while fighting it or does base to base still count? As in does the mss have a chance to effect anyone else but the one in the challenge or not and if it can effect anyone else then the opposing character will also be effected by the wraiths whip coils and will strike after the Overlord.

For the duration they only count as in base contact with each other.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

It's better to just be the one who assaults, then you get to choose the order that simultaneous events resolve.

What? Where is that in the rulebook/FAQ? Would be nice to know....

Page 9, bottom left corner.

Thanks. For some reason, I had the idea rattling around that, in the case of multiple set modifiers (Wraith coils and, eg. wargear that sets my SM model at I5), you diced for it to see which one worked first. I wonder where that came from...