Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If a single model unit is in base contact with two mind shackle scarabs, would the single model need to pass two leadership checks (one each) or one and both are satisfied? If the model challenges one of the two scarab owners does he still have to test on both?

if a single model is in base with 2 models with mindshackle scarabs and no challenge happens hit would test twice.

If a challenge happens then the player who's turn it is decides order. so it can play out a few ways:
Challenge(accepted) and then MSS, would mean only 1 goes off.
Challenge(declined) then MSS, would mean that both go off.
MSS then challenge, MSS both go off.

So as a Necron player I'm probably better off declining a challenge on a single model at a chance to double scarab.

Unless you think that he will be able to destroy both models in the unit.

It's better to just be the one who assaults, then you get to choose the order that simultaneous events resolve.

In my experience fighting necrons, there isnt much a boss with scarabs doesnt wanna fight. ive seen those things force a Dreadknight to plaster himself....its rediculous. Wish my Warbosses had crap like that

Also if you decline a challenge dont you lose the MC for that fight too since its that model specifically doing it?

Without MS scarabs, necron ICs winning a challenge would be like a joke.

Yeah, because T5 S7 AP1 and a 3++/2+ is so easy to kill

You forgot the 4+++ in there as well

It always gives me a chuckle when necron players say they are not good in cc, look at the lords, then lets see wraiths with there 2 attacks, 2 wounds, invuln 3up and lash whips - if that isn't good what is.
Then Scarabs with their massive amount of attacks, cheap points, 3 wound each base, then the spiders. Oh and last but certainly not least - deathmarks on a marked unit wounding on 2s. I think they do quite well in cc

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

It always gives me a chuckle when necron players say they are not good in cc, look at the lords, then lets see wraiths with there 2 attacks, 2 wounds, invuln 3up and lash whips - if that isn't good what is.
Then Scarabs with their massive amount of attacks, cheap points, 3 wound each base, then the spiders. Oh and last but certainly not least - deathmarks on a marked unit wounding on 2s. I think they do quite well in cc

Shhh, you'll ruin the confused look on players faces when I charge warriors into terminators thinking I don't know what I am doing... LET them believe Necrons are terrible in CC, it's one of my favorite things every time I play!

Vineheart01 wrote:
In my experience fighting necrons, there isnt much a boss with scarabs doesnt wanna fight. ive seen those things force a Dreadknight to plaster himself....its rediculous. Wish my Warbosses had crap like that

Also if you decline a challenge don't you lose the MC for that fight too since its that model specifically doing it?

The section for refusing a challenge just states that they cannot strike blows for the rest of the turn, unless I missed something in an FAQ there is nothing to prevent them from using abilities or wargear as long as it does not require them to strike a blow to use it or cause the model to strike a blow.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

It always gives me a chuckle when necron players say they are not good in cc, look at the lords, then lets see wraiths with there 2 attacks, 2 wounds, invuln 3up and lash whips - if that isn't good what is.
Then Scarabs with their massive amount of attacks, cheap points, 3 wound each base, then the spiders. Oh and last but certainly not least - deathmarks on a marked unit wounding on 2s. I think they do quite well in cc

Not to be nit picky but I believe that wraiths get 3 attacks normally if not charging, they are an awesome assault power house attach a destroyer lord to them and they are down right nasty, wound most things on 2's re-rolling 1's.

sorry I stand corrected...

Necrons as an army have good cc options. The overlord is not one of them. It's an infantry IC which fully kitted for CC is 160pts (175 with ms scarabs) and doesn't have good cc infantry units to join. So it may seem to an inexperienced player as a good choice but in the end it isn't worth the points.

The Destroyer Lord is a lot better for cc, mostly because it can join wraiths and scarabs, but doesn't have any inv save. So you depend on ms scarabs to save him in a challenge with an enemy IC of equal pts made for cc.

Then we will agree to disagree, as he is a very good combat character. You are just plain wrong on this.

DL main benefit is giving PE to the wraiths.

175 points to win basically any challenge and kill any other dedicated CC character isn't worth the points?

Can I have one then?

rigeld2 wrote:
175 points to win basically any challenge and kill any other dedicated CC character isn't worth the points?

Can I have one then?

Nope your not heresy like the necrons

They do have crappy initiative though. A 100 point dreadnought is immune to MSS and will plaster the lord with one hit if he fails that invulnerable.

But what thing with an AV will make it to the lord through the hail of gauss fire intact? ??

Kevlar wrote:
They do have crappy initiative though. A 100 point dreadnought is immune to MSS and will plaster the lord with one hit if he fails that invulnerable.

And that same 100 point dreadnought will also kill also kill pretty much any other (non-SC) infantry characters with one hit. And considering that the chances of that dreadnought splattering Necron Overlord is ~26% (~ 38% with charge), while the Necron Overlord will has around 50% chance of blowing that dread up (70+% if charging) the expected points return of that exchange is heavily on Necron Overlords side.

And Necron lords with Warscythes actually have extremely good initiative, considering that AP2 weapons for infantry that aren't Unwieldy are SC only in every other codex.

tl;dr: Necron Overlord equipped with Warscythe, MMS and Weave is currently the best non-SC CC character there is and is pretty likely to beat all CC oriented SC's that don't have EW. That is how "crappy" he is.

The problem is how will he reach CC and with whom? Lychguards on foot? A joke. Lychguards on a NS? Oh good, the enemy gets 1 round to concentrate ALL its fire on that unit. Maybe the overlord will survive with 1 wound or through RP. I'd take TH/SS termies with a 175pts CC HQ anytime.

Destroyer Lord is the HQ for CC but he doesn't get an invu. So he needs the scarabs.

Ive had a few run in's with a MSS Necron Lord (and his band of merry men) with my Chaos army.

I have a lord who trots around on a Khorne Juggernaut, with an axe of blind fury. Ive always found it pretty much 50/50.

if i pass the test, i get to hit him with at least (also assuming i dont roll a 1 - which HAS happened) 8 attacks, and at best around 12/13 attacks at str6 AP2.

Whilst i have lost these fights due to MSS shenanigans (fearless doesn't help - sadfaice) there's no denying that if an IC HQ can best a chaos lord in a challenge, its a damn good unit!



p.s.(im terrified of the MSS, but that doesnt stop me charging my lord at him and his retinue every game. After all, B@lls to the wall is what chaos lords do best!)

copper.talos wrote:
The problem is how will he reach CC and with whom? Lychguards on foot? A joke. Lychguards on a NS? Oh good, the enemy gets 1 round to concentrate ALL its fire on that unit. Maybe the overlord will survive with 1 wound or through RP. I'd take TH/SS termies with a 175pts CC HQ anytime.

Destroyer Lord is the HQ for CC but he doesn't get an invu. So he needs the scarabs.

He doesnt need to reach CC offensively, he acts as a damn good deterrent to a large objective holding unit, for example. Youre thinking far too linearly.

Luide wrote:

And Necron lords with Warscythes actually have extremely good initiative, considering that AP2 weapons for infantry that aren't Unwieldy are SC only in every other codex.

No, most special characters or monstrous creatures have no chance of death by dreadnought because they will kill the dreadnought before it gets to strike. Necrons can't. And getting a dread into combat with an overlord isn't that tough considering most of them are shooting tesla, not gauss. What do people take these days? Two squads of five warriors in ghost arks? Kill the arks and there really isn't much gauss left on the table.

Because rolling 3 5s to glance with Tesla Destructors is sooooo unlikely.

For competitive lists:
Percentage of Necron players using 175pts Overlords for CC ~ 0.0%.
Percentage of Necron players using 160pts DLords for CC ~ 100%

You will never find in a serious tourney an overlord talking a walk along side some lychguards. Never. Some inexperienced players may try to have them guard the rear or an objective, but 400pts units are meant to deliver pain not stand back and look at the scenery. Who takes Lysander and 5 Assault termies and not use them offensively anyway?

Necron CC means DLord with some wraiths. And the Dlord doesn't have an invu. That's why he needs those scarabs to stay alive thought the challenges.

And you're factually wrong. I've faced Overlords in competitive environments. A warrior blob with an attached overlord is pretty scary.

In CC?! Wow, you play Tau?

copper.talos wrote:
For competitive lists:
Percentage of Necron players using 175pts Overlords for CC ~ 0.0%.
Percentage of Necron players using 160pts DLords for CC ~ 100%

You will never find in a serious tourney an overlord talking a walk along side some lychguards. Never. Some inexperienced players may try to have them guard the rear or an objective, but 400pts units are meant to deliver pain not stand back and look at the scenery. Who takes Lysander and 5 Assault termies and not use them offensively anyway?

Necron CC means DLord with some wraiths. And the Dlord doesn't have an invu. That's why he needs those scarabs to stay alive thought the challenges.

Factually you are 100% wrong. I have played in a number of 6th edition tournaments and have seen, and faced, combat overlords in a number of situations.

You keep harping on about lychguard. Your one dimensional thinking is just that - one dimensional.

Keep on stating things as facts when they are anything but. It really, really makes people listen to you and your wisdom

Really....
No cc overlords

Have you heard of a chariot?

We are talking of CC overlords that can fair well in a challenge. And by challenge we don't mean a segeant, but an IC of equal points. With the barge the point cost of the overlord goes to 255pts. To do what? Fight alone a CC dedicated unit? He will surely lose. You give the overlord just a warscythe, scarabs and maybe a weave, put him on a CCB and he goes hunting non dedicated CC units. Hardly a match for a good CC oriented IC in a challenge without the scarabs, and with the scarabs he just has a good chance to survive.

For good CC, for those that know the game, the only way to go is DLord. Which he still needs the ms scarabs in a challenge.