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 Happygrunt wrote:
Well Dakka, I come seeking advice. Recently, I have "lost it" with my IG army. I can't win games anymore. Whether it is bad dice rolls, bad lists or bad tactics or a combination of the three, I am having difficulty playing with any sort of success. At this point, games feel like I am just playing until all of my stuff is dead. The biggest problem I am having is that I have no money to expand my army. So I am stuck with what I have. This is especially problematic, because I am slated to be going to Adepticon and am losing faith in my ability to play my IG. I need to find some way to fix this, because IG is the only army I can play at this point (my BA are in bad shape and I havn't played them in over a year) The first place to start, I believe, is in the list building. The following are models I own and I am hoping someone with significant experience with IG can help my figure out what to do with them.

Command Squad: Captain with PP
Captain with PF
Banner
Medic
MoO
MoF
Astropath
2x Plasma guns
Lascannon

Primaris Psyker

Lord Comissar

2x Priests, one with an evisorator

Marbo

10 man PBS

10 Man stormtrooper squad with 2x melta guns

2x Veteran squads with access 3x Plasma guns, plasma pistols, lascannons and autocannons

1x Harker squad with access to Plasma Guns, snipers and a Heavy Bolter

1x Vet squad with access to melta guns and a demo charge

2x Penal Legion squads (One of which is used to make members of Harkers Squad)

A vendetta

4x Chimeras (3x ML/HF and one NOS)

A bolter boat pask exterminator

A LRBT

A Demolisher

An Executionr with Plasma cannon sponsons

A Bastion

An ADL (Lascannon or Quad Gun)

And a few flamers and extra lasguns, as well as about 3x more lascannons and 4x more auto cannons.

I really need some help here, as I honestly can't figure out how to get things working again. Originally, I was playing footguard, but it slowly morphed into me playing a mech list. I enjoy both styles of play, but as of late I have not been very effective with either.

Any input would be much appreciated.

805



CCS- 4 Plasma guns ( barrow from other squads ) , chimera - 165 points
x3 Vet Squads with 3 plasma each in chimeras - 510 Points
Vet Squad - x3 Melta , Demo Charge - ( Ride in Vendetta ) 130 Points

z3 Leman Russ Demolishers ( bare bones , proxy , beggars can't be choosers ) 495 points

Vendetta - 130

10 Man Stormtroopers with 2 plasma -195

this totals to 1.625 points leaving you a little breathing room for upgrades and chaging things around , Basic plan , all Russ's in the front leading the spear point with chimeras coming behind and the ven concentrating on AA - you didn't give us very much to work with

He cant proxy if he is trying to build a list for a GT without getting more models. So suggesting proxy isnt the right course of action as he would have to find money, then purchase, then assemble, then paint to GT standard.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Most armies have the firepower to obliterate foot guard


Mech Vets are hard counters to most popular armies.

Yes. Foot guard are easily butchered by a huge amount of units. And plasmavets in chimeras will kill marines (and necrons and MCs) very easily.

 Tomb King wrote:
He cant proxy if he is trying to build a list for a GT without getting more models. So suggesting proxy isnt the right course of action as he would have to find money, then purchase, then assemble, then paint to GT standard.

Yah, I guess I should preface that this 1850 is for Adepticon.

So, what I have gathered is that I should focus on expanding my IG, but if April comes around and I havn't expanded as well as I would have liked, I can fall back to my BA as an allies detachment if I absolutely need to.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
He cant proxy if he is trying to build a list for a GT without getting more models. So suggesting proxy isnt the right course of action as he would have to find money, then purchase, then assemble, then paint to GT standard.

Yah, I guess I should preface that this 1850 is for Adepticon.

So, what I have gathered is that I should focus on expanding my IG, but if April comes around and I havn't expanded as well as I would have liked, I can fall back to my BA as an allies detachment if I absolutely need to.

Sounds like the way to go mate

First stop when you get the cash should be 2x Manticores and another Vendetta from there those units can both preform well in either foot or mech lists. Its a big benifit to have some form of Strength 10 pie plate in a guard list reguardless what it is mounted on (Demolisher, Medusa, Manticore Allied Vindicator). It just happens that Manticores can put down more S10 with the trade off being a less useful AP. Guard Armys have a lot of access some really good AP weapons so its not a big problem.

 BryllCream wrote:

Yes. Foot guard are easily butchered by a huge amount of units. And plasmavets in chimeras will kill marines (and necrons and MCs) very easily.

Foot guard behind an Aegis are only hard countered by Bikes and Vanguard Veterans.

Plasvets are hard countered by anything that can kill AV12.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

Yes. Foot guard are easily butchered by a huge amount of units. And plasmavets in chimeras will kill marines (and necrons and MCs) very easily.

Foot guard behind an Aegis are only hard countered by Bikes and Vanguard Veterans.

And anything that can outflank, Stormravens, Thunderfire cannons, Sternguard, barage weapons.

 TheCaptain wrote:

Plasvets are hard countered by anything that can kill AV12.

There are fewer counters to plasmavets than plasmamets themselves counter. Assuming that the plasma vets operate in an all-mech army, your armour saturation will be pretty high. The enemy won't be able to wreck your Russes, your artillery, and your chimeras as quickly as they can knock out his anti-tank.

Don't forget tzeench damons and anything in drop pods they will hard counter both foot and mech guard


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition a good counter to those would be strike squads and cotez or a rune priest with tempest wrath.

Your army is almost as mixed as mine. I've had to overhaul mine a few times and the better thing to do is change it little by little. This unit hasn't been working, i'll tweak it. That units gun never gets used, lets swap it. Let your army evolve. I do understand that sometimes a thorough overhaul is needed though so here's my 2 cents.

The command unit is all over the place. It fills both the moral role AND the additional firepower. Pick one. You don't want to be spending a shed load of points on advisors and medics for it to be moving into a firefight. The Lord Commissar isn't very good either unless you have a reason to use his abilities so i'd take both CCS. One with plasma and the other with a standard and some advisors to hang back and run the army. Drop the Medic too. If the unit comes under fire, the 30pts you spent on a medic will rarely make you glad you took one. Also, think about the PF. The CCS is either an expensive moral booster or a unit with a lot of special weapons, do you want either of those in combat? That'll cut some costs and get you two efficient HQ's. Do not waste the BS4 on flamers.

I like the priests but the power blob is less effective in 6th. Not to mention the fact that you should rarely ever need two. If you must, keep one priest for a large power blob but you shouldn't need more than one power blob.

The storm trooper squad has melta's and that screams a stormi-cide unit to me. Drop it to 5 men and use it to deep-strike the rear of vehicles. The other option is to use cover and attack from unexpected directions but I find plasma guns more favorable in this role.

Penal Legion squads are pretty lack-luster, YMMV. I'd swap them to infantry or vets.

The vets want the chimera's. Give them a job and equip them accordingly. Anti-tank want a lascannon and melta guns, Anti-infantry want plasma guns and perhaps an autocannon or HB. The Demolitions perk is a consideration but the anti-tank unit should have all the power it needs already and the plasma unit is already pretty expensive. Do not waste the BS4 on flamers.

The vendetta wants a vet unit, maybe with a demo charge or ideally, melta's. Perhaps a CCS.

I'd drop Pask. I'd take more gun's in his place but once again, YMMV. The same goes for Harker. The only Guard Characters I find viable are Creed and Marbo and even then, they only shine in the right circumstances.

Overall advice, your army is built to be mech. You have too few bodies for a horde so unless you manage to find a few hundred quid lying about, you haven't got much choice. Think about the upgrades your adding, will they come in handy in most games? and will it be worth the cost? Most of the time, an extra plasma gun here and there will be the better deal. Give your army the tools for the job, but don't go overboard.

 Deceiver wrote:
Your army is almost as mixed as mine. I've had to overhaul mine a few times and the better thing to do is change it little by little. This unit hasn't been working, i'll tweak it. That units gun never gets used, lets swap it. Let your army evolve. I do understand that sometimes a thorough overhaul is needed though so here's my 2 cents.

I actually am thinking this might be the way to go.I couldn't not sleep last night, I just kept running through how much it would cost to update my IG army. (A silly excuse for a lack of sleep, but it is a scary number to think about) I first plan on getting my leman russes updated, then add more vets.

Until I do that, I am really liking the idea of a IG/BA army. There is a 1250 tournament this Saturday at the Seattle bunker, about as good a chance as I can get right now to see if I still remember how to play BA.

Again, thanks everyone for your help. The future of my IG force isn't looking so expensive. now.