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< Taken by the void dragon. >

So they are 130 points per vendetta or?

Tagony wrote:
So they are 130 points per vendetta or?

/shrug, get a codex.

So by far we all know, that IG Vendettas are by far the best air superiority fighter is Vendetta. Which isn't even a fighter in first place (according to fluff) but a transport/gunship. Oh, and it's excellent tank hunter, and all around excellent everything. Yes, we know all that.

And what about Dark Angels flyers? they're good (not excellent, but good enough for their points) as anti-infantry. True?

But I think, that in this role Dark Talon is even better than Nephilim. Isn't it?

I own the model (just one kit), not yet assembled, and I'm thinking which one to build...

What you recommend?

They are ok against light infantry.

Orks, nids, eldar, guard - not too bad

Marines, Big nids, stuff with a decent armour save.. no.

Vehicles, beyond AV 10 - not really.

I tried the Dark Talon vs Orks, and found it to be an ok ground-strafer, but as most folk run Marines...

If you like them, take them. Just don't expect them to be the air superiority fighters theya re billed as. For hunting other planes they are woefully underequipped.

En Excelsis wrote:

In any case, of the existing flyers, the best is by far the Helldrake, then the Vendetta. The Nephilim actually comes in a prety respectable 3rd IMO. Other than that you really only have a few of the vanilla SM flyers, and the Necrons to worry about.

I'm sorry but what? I'm having a hard time seeing how the Nephilim is even CLOSE to being the third best flier in the game. It's no where near the power level of the Night Scythe, Doom Scythe, Storm Raven (even the GK version). At best, the Nephilim is 6th, although I would argue that the Dakka Jet and Storm Talon are both better.

En Excelsis wrote:


In any case, of the existing flyers, the best is by far the Helldrake, then the Vendetta. The Nephilim actually comes in a prety respectable 3rd IMO. Other than that you really only have a few of the vanilla SM flyers, and the Necrons to worry about.

Nephilim isnt anywhere near 3rd, not when there's Doomscythe, Vulture, Avenger, Storm Raven, Storm Eagle, Nightwing and a bunch of others.

Most of which in your list are FW IIRC

Even assuming codex units only, it's not 3rd.

Not last either - that place goes to the Blitza Bomma

Hilarious as all hell - but not that great

 Ascalam wrote:
Most of which in your list are FW IIRC

Even assuming codex units only, it's not 3rd.

Not last either - that place goes to the Blitza Bomma

Hilarious as all hell - but not that great

So what if they are, they are legal models now.

No more than they ever were, dude, but lets not start THAT argument off again.

They ARE legal models, IF you allow FW in your games. If not, you are SOL That determination is between you, your opponent and possibly the TO

I like playing against FW units, as a whole, but i don't consider them core 40K, so much as supplemental units you can choose to add on.

 Ascalam wrote:
No more than they ever were, dude, but lets not start THAT argument off again.

They ARE legal models, IF you allow FW in your games. If not, you are SOL That determination is between you, your opponent and possibly the TO

I like playing against FW units, as a whole, but i don't consider them core 40K, so much as supplemental units you can choose to add on.

So they are legal models and they are better than Nephilim, I stand corrected.

Their legality is in dispute (with a very vocal group on either side), but that's an argument for another thread. If you want to argue it there i'll argue it with you there, but let's not threadjack.

If you consider them legal, then, for you, they are better flyers. Good for you. Have a cookie.

If you do not consider them to be part of standard 40K, it's all good anyway, because there are still better fighters than the Nephilim.

It's middle of the road to lousy, but not the worst flyer out there. It's overpriced and undergunned, especially compared to the broken as crud Valk/Vendetta, but it's still better than some.

Sure, I like cookies

Anyways, I'd think the Nephilim would have been cool if Blackswords have blasts (or hell Large Blasts) since it had Missile Lock prior to FAQ.
BS5 with Strafing run and Missile Lock together the blast would scatter 1" at most, which would have made the Nephilim decent at shooting infantry.

I get the feeling they were supposed to be blasts, and the a-holes that wrote the FAQ fethed it all up as usual

Then they would have decent utility as a hordebreaker.

Large blasts would be even better, and would make the Nephilim more of a likely-take then.

As it is now they don't even knock Bommas out of the sky too well, let alone the flying tanks other races get ...

maciek wrote:
So by far we all know, that IG Vendettas are by far the best air superiority fighter is Vendetta. Which isn't even a fighter in first place (according to fluff) but a transport/gunship. Oh, and it's excellent tank hunter, and all around excellent everything. Yes, we know all that.

And what about Dark Angels flyers? they're good (not excellent, but good enough for their points) as anti-infantry. True?

But I think, that in this role Dark Talon is even better than Nephilim. Isn't it?

I own the model (just one kit), not yet assembled, and I'm thinking which one to build...

What you recommend?

The Dark Talon is a funny thing. I haven't played with one, but personally I think they're a bit of a gimmick that rely on luck too much. The main weapon isn't great, but blinds a unit and the stasis bomb is a one shot game changer for a single combat round, but these days you can rarely guarantee getting into combat. So you have to get you flyer in, positioned correctly, not have your shots scatter too far and make your charges successfully. Oh and not have your paper thin flyer annihalated by your opponent

I think I'll stick with the Nephillim...

I like to think that most reasons GW does something is not just for money. Its hard to say that they made the Nephilim worst and hope to sell models... It bothers me that the fluff considers the jetfighter an "interceptor."
A) The model looks amazing
B) It's overpriced point heavy for it's uses
C) Other flyers are better.
D) It was never meant to have missile lock. That was a typo like the RW Command Squad standard.

My question is: Why can a space marine carry a flakk missile S7AP4 or krak missile S8AP3 and shoot it as many times as he can and a Jetfighter Flyer only carry 6 S6AP4 missile that have 12" less range?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They know the Valkyrie sells...

If the Nephilim was maybe 60 points less or maybe 50 points less I would run 2 of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They as in GW.*