Is he too expensive for what he brings?

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**eldartau1987**

Tomb King wrote:
Just played against a list that had 3 vendetta and 3 GK stormravens. The trick to keeping the prince alive was endurance and keeping him flying to avoid the auto-perils. It was a rough game but the daemon prince was still alive in the end and the list won again. The daemon prince killed coteaz and an entire guard infantry platoon.

I like Coteaz Death. Honestly, I think that you have proven that you can effectively use this guy multiple times. I just hope that your dice tend to agree. I like to take things that people naysay against and do well with them myself!

**Ratius**

3) You need to challange that first round you assaulted. Its critical that you don't wipe that squad out or force them to run on the turn you assaulted! If you did, they will fall back and then their entire army will shoot you in the face.

QFT. Happened last week and he got BBQ'd.

I'd also recommend even though you want him in combat by turn 2 not to leave hi unsupported amongst your opponents lines.
Back him up with well timed flankers, Raptors, LR+troops charges etc - anything that can keep pace with him and give your opponent an added headache/distraction and that can support him.

**Tomb King**

eldartau1987 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
Just played against a list that had 3 vendetta and 3 GK stormravens. The trick to keeping the prince alive was endurance and keeping him flying to avoid the auto-perils. It was a rough game but the daemon prince was still alive in the end and the list won again. The daemon prince killed coteaz and an entire guard infantry platoon.

I like Coteaz Death. Honestly, I think that you have proven that you can effectively use this guy multiple times. I just hope that your dice tend to agree. I like to take things that people naysay against and do well with them myself!

I think me and you are of like mind. Back in 5th I never lost a single game with my tau. In addition, my win percentage with my CSM before the update was pretty stifling. Nearly took them to ard boyz finals.

**eldartau1987**

Tomb King wrote:
eldartau1987 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
Just played against a list that had 3 vendetta and 3 GK stormravens. The trick to keeping the prince alive was endurance and keeping him flying to avoid the auto-perils. It was a rough game but the daemon prince was still alive in the end and the list won again. The daemon prince killed coteaz and an entire guard infantry platoon.

I like Coteaz Death. Honestly, I think that you have proven that you can effectively use this guy multiple times. I just hope that your dice tend to agree. I like to take things that people naysay against and do well with them myself!

I think me and you are of like mind. Back in 5th I never lost a single game with my tau. In addition, my win percentage with my CSM before the update was pretty stifling. Nearly took them to ard boyz finals.

I think the list that you posted has so many other things that has people in confusion, that the demon prince is not the worst of their concern. I think it is great that a unit people have frowned upon is being used in an effective manner.

**Tomb King**

eldartau1987 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
eldartau1987 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
Just played against a list that had 3 vendetta and 3 GK stormravens. The trick to keeping the prince alive was endurance and keeping him flying to avoid the auto-perils. It was a rough game but the daemon prince was still alive in the end and the list won again. The daemon prince killed coteaz and an entire guard infantry platoon.

I like Coteaz Death. Honestly, I think that you have proven that you can effectively use this guy multiple times. I just hope that your dice tend to agree. I like to take things that people naysay against and do well with them myself!

I think me and you are of like mind. Back in 5th I never lost a single game with my tau. In addition, my win percentage with my CSM before the update was pretty stifling. Nearly took them to ard boyz finals.

I think the list that you posted has so many other things that has people in confusion, that the demon prince is not the worst of their concern. I think it is great that a unit people have frowned upon is being used in an effective manner.

TBH pending a crazy faq or new book coming out that will probably be the list that I take to adepticon. Its a pretty nasty build.

**jy2**

Tomb King wrote:

TBH pending a crazy faq or new book coming out that will probably be the list that I take to adepticon. Its a pretty nasty build.

Whether he is good or not, the main thing is if you like the build. If you like it, then by all means, take it to the tournament and have fun. Don't pay attention to the naysayers.

**Stormbreed**

jy2 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:

TBH pending a crazy faq or new book coming out that will probably be the list that I take to adepticon. Its a pretty nasty build.

Whether he is good or not, the main thing is if you like the build. If you like it, then by all means, take it to the tournament and have fun. Don't pay attention to the naysayers.

This 100%

Based on a lot of the negative replies you will surprise a lot of people at a tourney, they will just won't expect that build.

A close friend of mine who I game with all the time is bringing an Abbadon list to our local tourney coming up, its a 1500 list. Many people think he's just going to get tied up and wasted by shooting or tar pits, but @ 1500 with Demon allies all coming in early on turn 2 he catches A LOT of people off guard.

I enjoy people who go away from the normal!

**Stormbreed**

Lobukia wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Across several games my DP dominated the Swarmlord (4-0)

Have you considered playing the lottery? It's much more likely to win that than have a Daemon Prince beat the Swarmlord even once.
.

Really? Daemonic Weapon should give me 3 or 4 bonus attacks, I get +1 on the charge, and can attack at S10/AP2 with only dropping to 3 base attacks. So that's 7/8 attacks at WS 9. 4 should hit, and they should all wound. That's a reasonable 2-3 wounds after saves... but I can/did roll higher than 3 on my bonus attacks, if I get Iron Arm (did twice) I may not need the S10 and can keep the extra attacks for another wound. A roll of 5 or 6 on extra attacks and getting Iron Arm = a dead Swarmlord. I took a spell familiar both times to deal with Shadows in the Warp, and one of the times I didn't get Iron Arm, I got Warp Speed and that worked out to 2 extra attacks, and I dropped the Swarmlord in the fist pass. The Swarmlord has no invuln against ranged attacks and only a 3+ save. I never had to deal with a fresh foe, every time he was down 1 wound (and if you're facing 'nids, you have to know/use that). The Swarmlord only has 5 attacks, only 3 should hit, and at best 2 wound. That gives the DP 2 turns of attacks. I never had it happen, but a "6" on a toughness check kills the Swarmlord on any given turn.

Is it an economic use of points? No. Can it earn them back? Yes. Can it remove things from play that are really hard to handle with other units in the CSM codex? Very much so. This leaves your remaining points to go handle things it can/should.

Even in the off chance he doesn't get 1or5 in bio , if you don't kill him before he swings you're instagibbed.

Now if you both get 1 then I could see DP winning for sure.

**DarthDiggler**

I think some people are underestimating the power of the 350pt Daemon Prince. That being said I don't think it's an efficient use of points in this particular list. For 20pts more than the Prince you can get a Destroyer Lord, 2+ save and MSS leading 6 Wraiths. Is the DP more powerful than 6 Wraiths and a DLord?

Other than that I don't think the chaos portion adds anything to the Necron list. The Heldrake is great anti meq, but so are all the Tesla Destructors.

**wuestenfux**

Well, CSM gun line seem to become popular these days, since Chaos barely has useful transports to get into cc. If you play a gun line, a winged DP could be useful as a counter strike unit.

**L0rdF1end**

wuestenfux, I love the way yopu start all of your posts with "Well".

He has his uses, but you cant just throw him down the field and expect him to live against lots of incoming enemy fire.
He should be used more of a support unit and more concentrating on softer targets in my eyes, the list also needs to contain other distractions.
Because of the unlikelyhood that you'll get the bio powers you want its just not worth throwing so many points at him.

The most effective would be to give him the Mace, power armour, wings and DoS to get fleet and make sure he makes it into combat.
That comes in quite a bit cheaper and still a powerhouse in combat. Then it doesnt hurt quite so bad when he eventually falls.

He's a beast at killing MEQ and that's where I would use him.
Hatred Space Marine is just icing on the cake.

DP of Slaanesh
Wings
Power Armour
Black Mace = 260

**MadmanMSU**

Without reading the whole thread, I'll simply give you my experiences.

I run a CSM DP with BM, Wings, PA, and Tzeentch for 265 points as an allied HQ in my necron army. The last tournament I took him to he won me 1st place and $100.

Drop the psychic powers. He's worth it. Just remember he's not a terminator, so you can't just run him straight into a guard leafblower list. He's big and tough and scary, but you still have to be crafty with him.

**wuestenfux**

wuestenfux, I love the way you start all of your posts with "Well".

Yeah, lol, need to take a deep breath first.

I run a CSM DP with BM, Wings, PA, and Tzeentch for 265 points as an allied HQ in my necron army. The last tournament I took him to he won me 1st place and $100.

Interesting. In our RTTs, Necrons dominate and CSM army placed in very high.

**zephoid**

DP should be kept as cheap as possible. PA and wings and you are good. Brings their target priority down and makes them sort of expendable. People will shoot at them, but keeping them cheap means you may have a 2nd one right behind him to pick up the torch if the first falls. If both make it to combat, they will do more than the 1 with all the shiny upgrades. Simple rule of 40k: cost efficiency. Maxed upgrades on anything is rarely ever worth it.

**L0rdF1end**

MadmanMSU wrote:
I run a CSM DP with BM, Wings, PA, and Tzeentch for 265 points as an allied HQ in my necron army. The last tournament I took him to he won me 1st place and $100.

Yeah, that reroll 1's might just beat having fleet for added surviabilty, i guess the point to make is that with wings you should have a very short charge distance anyways.

**eldartau1987**

Tomb King wrote:
eldartau1987 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
eldartau1987 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
Just played against a list that had 3 vendetta and 3 GK stormravens. The trick to keeping the prince alive was endurance and keeping him flying to avoid the auto-perils. It was a rough game but the daemon prince was still alive in the end and the list won again. The daemon prince killed coteaz and an entire guard infantry platoon.

I like Coteaz Death. Honestly, I think that you have proven that you can effectively use this guy multiple times. I just hope that your dice tend to agree. I like to take things that people naysay against and do well with them myself!

I think me and you are of like mind. Back in 5th I never lost a single game with my tau. In addition, my win percentage with my CSM before the update was pretty stifling. Nearly took them to ard boyz finals.

I think the list that you posted has so many other things that has people in confusion, that the demon prince is not the worst of their concern. I think it is great that a unit people have frowned upon is being used in an effective manner.

TBH pending a crazy faq or new book coming out that will probably be the list that I take to adepticon. Its a pretty nasty build.

Yeah I do not know how I would handle that lol.

**Seb**

Played 2 games last WE against Cchaos daemons.

He had 1 DP (nurgle, PA) and 1 Bloodthirster. Second game he had Skarbrand and the same Nurgle DP.

My HQ were
-> Game 1 : Nurgle biker with Brand, Khorne Juggernaught rider with AoBF.
-> Game 2 : MoT sorc in TDA and Nurgle biker with black mace.

On game 1, I avoided the enemy HQ. On game 2, my HQ got toasted bad.

I spent last evening converting a DP to add a Black Mace.

MC are worth it.

**Cyberian**

zephoid wrote:
DP should be kept as cheap as possible. PA and wings and you are good.

I wielded him with just wings before.
PA I find useless as most long range weaponry usually ignores that anyway. And I did not have him shot down by bolters yet because of good charge range.
Could be helpful against Autocannon heavy guard and such though.

I find without demon weapon he does not pack enough punch. I like him to be able to single handedly crush heavy squads if he manages to close in.
So I field him with wings and khorne axe from now on. Alot more attacks and ID against T4.

**Tomb King**

Cyberian wrote:
zephoid wrote:
DP should be kept as cheap as possible. PA and wings and you are good.

I wielded him with just wings before.
PA I find useless as most long range weaponry usually ignores that anyway. And I did not have him shot down by bolters yet because of good charge range.
Could be helpful against Autocannon heavy guard and such though.

I find without demon weapon he does not pack enough punch. I like him to be able to single handedly crush heavy squads if he manages to close in.
So I field him with wings and khorne axe from now on. Alot more attacks and ID against T4.

PA is only 20pts and makes him 50% more survivable to standard dakka. In addition, you will find its dakka that kills him more often then low ap weapons.

**Seb**

Cyberian wrote:
zephoid wrote:
DP should be kept as cheap as possible. PA and wings and you are good.

I wielded him with just wings before.
PA I find useless as most long range weaponry usually ignores that anyway. And I did not have him shot down by bolters yet because of good charge range.
Could be helpful against Autocannon heavy guard and such though.

I find without demon weapon he does not pack enough punch. I like him to be able to single handedly crush heavy squads if he manages to close in.
So I field him with wings and khorne axe from now on. Alot more attacks and ID against T4.

I think you need to give him a Mark.

IMHO, the D6 attacks from a deamon weapon are worth it against other big bugs.
That means : Mark of whatever (I dislike Nurgle personnaly, all the other seems pretty good), PA, wings, Black Mace.

Still debating on the psyker levels.

Psy powers brings a lot to the table, but since I am PM heavy, I need a Nurgle lord or Typhus to make them troops.

Any suggestion on how to solve this trouble ?

**guinness707**

Just run your plague marines as normal chaos marines with the mark of nurgle?

**Tomb King**

Seb wrote:
Cyberian wrote:
zephoid wrote:
DP should be kept as cheap as possible. PA and wings and you are good.

I wielded him with just wings before.
PA I find useless as most long range weaponry usually ignores that anyway. And I did not have him shot down by bolters yet because of good charge range.
Could be helpful against Autocannon heavy guard and such though.

I find without demon weapon he does not pack enough punch. I like him to be able to single handedly crush heavy squads if he manages to close in.
So I field him with wings and khorne axe from now on. Alot more attacks and ID against T4.

I think you need to give him a Mark.

IMHO, the D6 attacks from a deamon weapon are worth it against other big bugs.
That means : Mark of whatever (I dislike Nurgle personnaly, all the other seems pretty good), PA, wings, Black Mace.

Still debating on the psyker levels.

Psy powers brings a lot to the table, but since I am PM heavy, I need a Nurgle lord or Typhus to make them troops.

Any suggestion on how to solve this trouble ?

Naked lord of nurgle. You dont need to kit him out he csn still put out some damage.