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This thread is absurd.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
This thread is absurd.

This comment does not add to the discussion in any way.

I think a big problem is people see theme and decide it's an an excuse to throw everything they know about the culture or whatever into 40k.
It's far better to make it similar but with changes not every name needs to be super themed and every other word or unit name doesn't have to be themed either.
Making something in 40k that feels like a real world culture is often more delicate than most people realise.

German time-periods can easily work. I remember your work, it had potential, but you sort of squandered it with a revolution sponsored by the IOM and such, while you gave the sector a name that wasn't conductive with that sort of environment (Sturmkrieg for me sounds like a very bleak and desolate place with DKOK regiments and to add more Germanic influence I would have included the Imperial Fists and then you could dodge the Nazi-bullet), and most peoples imagination as I see it.

Unfortunately revolution + Germany = Nazi-Germany in the mind of most people.

purplefood wrote:I think a big problem is people see theme and decide it's an an excuse to throw everything they know about the culture or whatever into 40k.
It's far better to make it similar but with changes not every name needs to be super themed and every other word or unit name doesn't have to be themed either.
Making something in 40k that feels like a real world culture is often more delicate than most people realise.

That's one thing that I've realized. I've been working on moving away from singular origin themes and titles to more diverse themes. Rather than German, I'm working on German and Russian with less obvious Roman and Gothic styles. Anything else I find that is interesting I can put in with a less obvious method.

Beaviz81 wrote:German time-periods can easily work. I remember your work, it had potential, but you sort of squandered it with a revolution sponsored by the IOM and such, while you gave the sector a name that wasn't conductive with that sort of environment (Sturmkrieg for me sounds like a very bleak and desolate place with DKOK regiments and to add more Germanic influence I would have included the Imperial Fists and then you could dodge the Nazi-bullet), and most peoples imagination as I see it.

Unfortunately revolution + Germany = Nazi-Germany in the mind of most people.

The title was designed more for mechanized warfare. I think the perception of the revolution was bad. It's not designed to be a liberal rise-up American style revolution. It's somewhat like the French Revolution, but the end result is like the Russian Revolution once Stalin took control in the way that it immediately gets really oppressive. I'm also planning for some of the non-dark seeming things to actually be dark. Sternkampf says that they want equality for everyone, but they go about it in the most totalitarian way possible; no one grows up under a traditional family. Everyone grows up in state run boarding schools so that no one has the advantages of being born into higher social classes or the disadvantages of having bad parents. Everyone is judged on their own abilities, but they way that society was created was through extreme totalitarianism.

The last bit is very unfortunate. It doesn't help when large numbers of people doing "German armies" are actually doing Nazi armies, as with the Jagdmacht of Todth.

The title is wrong then. Storm for me, is not about armoured warfare, it's about guys mounting bayonets and charging. Storm-attack is a word in my native language. It means charge literally. So you coming up with Sturmkrieg basically formed me into a whole sector of trench-warfare with very fatalistic troopers. It would actually be one of the darkest places in the whole galaxy and that's a telling story.

The whole revolution-thingy got people confused, and the easiest out then is scrapping the idea. I personally think you wanted it too work too much, and when advice came you ignored it for what you wanted. Then I lost interest, and everyone thought it ended with Nazi-Germany. One thing is liking your own idea, another is being pig-headed about it. And the revolution-thingy in my mind doesn't fit well with the name and style of the sector. Sorry but that's basically a very poor idea. You should gone more for Germany anno 1916 and before and not at all mentioned the revolution.

As for that idea of everyone being raised by the IOM, that's for Tau, it doesn't work for humans, and now you are going for Teenage Wasteland. Which tends to be a horrid idea itself. Plus the German Junker-system is something I think should be retained in a Germanic setting (especially if you are to involve the Imperial Fists).

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
This thread is absurd.

I think the OP might have a point

MarsNZ wrote:
I think Canadian would look more ridiculous eh

Too bad canadians don't say 'eh' more like fonzi from 'happy days'. That might make it infinitely more tolerable.

xttz wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
This thread is absurd.

I think the OP might have a point

Hahahaha that was one hilarious link. German as a language really sounds angry.

I know this might sound weird but if you are so anti-german or seem annoyed by the language (talking to the OP here) then why does your profile have german words and such?

I don't think that there is need for this thread, German language ( grammatically right or not ) just sounds so cool when you pronounce it.

Take for example Krieg, Death Korps of War don't sound like something special but Death Korps of Krieg sounds cool.

But I agree in one thing, if someone want's to write something in German then he should do a little research and write it correctly. Otherwise this could bother Germans, same like everyone else.

Indeed Alexander, and that has the OP failed miserably with. I mean I basically told the person now what the hell storm means (at least military speaking for Germanic-speaking people), and no his or her's interpretation doesn't trumf this time.

German looks wrong in 40K? Presumably not to Germans. But really, how often does a non-German sit and think "you know what, there's far too much German in here" when reading a 40K related book...?



In the OP I don't even see anything 40K-related except the eagle symbol. That's a picture of a Helghast.

 purplefood wrote:
I think a big problem is people see theme and decide it's an an excuse to throw everything they know about the culture or whatever into 40k.
It's far better to make it similar but with changes not every name needs to be super themed and every other word or unit name doesn't have to be themed either.
Making something in 40k that feels like a real world culture is often more delicate than most people realise.

Purplefood's hit the nail on the head really, people think that they can just shoehorn any old historical stuff in there as long as it fits their theme while ignoring the fact that GW doesn't do that. Look at the miniature lines in 40K clearly inspired by history , such as Valhallans, Praetorians and DKOK - yes, their look is historically inspired but the lore puts them firmly in the realm of fantasy. If, say, Valhallans were a fan-created regiment I can't help feeling that they would have overthrown Governor Romanov and all gone to live on collective farms while carrying flags with hammers and sickles on, etc...40K is so fantastical that plopping in a heavy-handed parallel of real history just doesn't work.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Let's just say, Nazi references look bad most of the time.

Yes indeed. When I see someone on a forum trumpeting "German-themed" Imperial Guard I usually expect it's going to be an awkward and misjudged army in Nazi-style uniforms (it often is)...then it's time to play the game of waiting to see how long it is before the OP acts wounded because someone suggests that in the real world you might not get the warmest reception if you were to just plop that down on the table at your LGS.

Beaviz81 wrote:The title is wrong then. Storm for me, is not about armoured warfare, it's about guys mounting bayonets and charging. Storm-attack is a word in my native language. It means charge literally. So you coming up with Sturmkrieg basically formed me into a whole sector of trench-warfare with very fatalistic troopers. It would actually be one of the darkest places in the whole galaxy and that's a telling story.

The whole revolution-thingy got people confused, and the easiest out then is scrapping the idea. I personally think you wanted it too work too much, and when advice came you ignored it for what you wanted. Then I lost interest, and everyone thought it ended with Nazi-Germany. One thing is liking your own idea, another is being pig-headed about it. And the revolution-thingy in my mind doesn't fit well with the name and style of the sector. Sorry but that's basically a very poor idea. You should gone more for Germany anno 1916 and before and not at all mentioned the revolution.

As for that idea of everyone being raised by the IOM, that's for Tau, it doesn't work for humans, and now you are going for Teenage Wasteland. Which tends to be a horrid idea itself. Plus the German Junker-system is something I think should be retained in a Germanic setting (especially if you are to involve the Imperial Fists).

flamingkillamajig wrote:I know this might sound weird but if you are so anti-german or seem annoyed by the language (talking to the OP here) then why does your profile have german words and such?

I'll work on that. A lot of stuff needs more thought and improvement. A lot of stuff is also underwritten. At the moment we should rename the entire website Volianvan since they have much more background documentation.

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:I don't think that there is need for this thread, German language ( grammatically right or not ) just sounds so cool when you pronounce it.

Take for example Krieg, Death Korps of War don't sound like something special but Death Korps of Krieg sounds cool.

But I agree in one thing, if someone want's to write something in German then he should do a little research and write it correctly. Otherwise this could bother Germans, same like everyone else.

There are some words and names that sound cool, I agree, but not entire sentences and literal translations. In the example of Death Korps of Krieg, only one word (two possibly with the spelling change) is in German. It gives it a name that works. What the name is not, is a literal translation into German of something like Tod Korps des Krieges. That doesn't seem too bad, but it is a bit obscure in meaning, and there are far worse examples.

Fezman wrote:German looks wrong in 40K? Presumably not to Germans. But really, how often does a non-German sit and think "you know what, there's far too much German in here" when reading a 40K related book...?



In the OP I don't even see anything 40K-related except the eagle symbol. That's a picture of a Helghast.

 purplefood wrote:
I think a big problem is people see theme and decide it's an an excuse to throw everything they know about the culture or whatever into 40k.
It's far better to make it similar but with changes not every name needs to be super themed and every other word or unit name doesn't have to be themed either.
Making something in 40k that feels like a real world culture is often more delicate than most people realise.

Purplefood's hit the nail on the head really, people think that they can just shoehorn any old historical stuff in there as long as it fits their theme while ignoring the fact that GW doesn't do that. Look at the miniature lines in 40K clearly inspired by history , such as Valhallans, Praetorians and DKOK - yes, their look is historically inspired but the lore puts them firmly in the realm of fantasy. If, say, Valhallans were a fan-created regiment I can't help feeling that they would have overthrown Governor Romanov and all gone to live on collective farms while carrying flags with hammers and sickles on, etc...40K is so fantastical that plopping in a heavy-handed parallel of real history just doesn't work.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Let's just say, Nazi references look bad most of the time.

Yes indeed. When I see someone on a forum trumpeting "German-themed" Imperial Guard I usually expect it's going to be an awkward and misjudged army in Nazi-style uniforms (it often is)...then it's time to play the game of waiting to see how long it is before the OP acts wounded because someone suggests that in the real world you might not get the warmest reception if you were to just plop that down on the table at your LGS.

I'm not talking about official canon. I'm talking about fanfiction and art.

That poster was for the Jagdmacht of Todth, a Nazi Wehrmacht style army that someone here created.

I personally don't like the hammer and sickle flags, though I've never actually seen anyone use them. Dondrekhan was talking about how he wanted to use the hammer and sickle in a Rotstein army, until I repeated several times that it would be dumb. For some reason, taking it to the point of collective farms makes me uncomfortable; maybe it's too much real life invasion.

I've developed a good sense of when someone is making a German army, and when someone is using "German army" as a cover for "Nazi army." They bring down German armies for everyone else. I would not play against such people, except for maybe if I used a Red Army themes army and a power gamer list and tactics so I could beat their army into the table.

Yeah a renaming is probably the better way. As that gives you more freedom than the previous name. I still have issues with the down and up revolution. As that points for me to not be something the IOM should want, they want more tithes and more men going off planets to fight, not just having a sector-wide communism-like revolt. That's bad for business, very bad indeed. Though with Voliavan you have more creative freedom, than with Sturmkrieg where Germanic people like me quickly enters the trenches. And can maybe have your Russo-Germanic revolt. But I think a revolt by the people in wh40k. is the last thing the IOM would want, because that would be Redemptionists. I have earlier suggested you to turn the revolts on the head, and make it to be a repression of the revolts. As that's more in line with the line of thought of the IOM.

O...k. I didn't expect to see my goofy propaganda poster in someone else's thread, but fair's fair I guess.

Full disclosure, in the very first entry of my project log, I posted the following...

SkaerKrow wrote:A bit of a disclaimer to any German speaking readers out there: I am going to shamelessly butcher your language. I don't do this out of disrespect, but to my silly Anglo-American ears, there's a uniquely evocative quality to the sound of the German language. Also, most of my Guardsmen are wearing stahlhelms, so there's also that.

I like the design of the Panzercops from Jin-Roh, and the Helghasts from the Killzone franchise. When Wargames Factory came out with super cheap (by comparison to GW Cadians) trooper models that looked like Helghasts, of course I jumped at the chance to use them to start an army. A bunch of guys in Wehrmacht looking equipment are going to lend themselves to a German army theme. This isn't really a stretch, considering that Forgeworld already has a German army in 40k (the Death Korps of Krieg). Calling my army a "Nazi" army is a bit of a stretch, as nothing in their flavor text or design is inspired by Nazi ideals or practices. Whatever facism that exists in the army background comes from their indoctrination into the Imperium of Man, which is an underlying characteristic of all Imperial armies.

Ehrenstein, you've had a weird, reoccurring problem with my army for a while now, and the only suggestion that I have for you is to stay out of my Guard threads. Dakka's a big place, and there are lots of great threads to read that have nothing at all to do with silly Space Germans.

Jagdmacht sounds more like something from Hellsing than Nazi-Germany to be honest. Had you called it Jagdreich on the other hand...

Spoken german is even cooler.

There is an extreme amount of German culture injected into 40k, even the symbol of the Imperium used to be the symbol of the Holy Roman Empire (encompassing Germany), amongst other things. Maybe the reason the sentences look weird to you because it is not your native language. To a German it just looks normal and they think more about what the words are saying or what they sound like.

I'm from New York so when I travel around the country or I'm in Canada and talk to other people they tend to think I sound like a gangster. To me I just sound normal. It's all in people's heads... that's just the way it is.

What looks good in 40k are things that bring you into another sci-fi world.... the more separated it is from the world of here and now, and integrated with itself, the better it will be. The language portion of it happens to be based mostly in the English Language, the culture/imagery mostly Western, but the universe is so large an all-inclusive that anything could exist there really.

And if you design posters/fluff directly influenced by Nazi propaganda, not only is it not all that original but it will be slightly off-putting to people.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Yeah a renaming is probably the better way. As that gives you more freedom than the previous name. I still have issues with the down and up revolution. As that points for me to not be something the IOM should want, they want more tithes and more men going off planets to fight, not just having a sector-wide communism-like revolt. That's bad for business, very bad indeed. Though with Voliavan you have more creative freedom, than with Sturmkrieg where Germanic people like me quickly enters the trenches. And can maybe have your Russo-Germanic revolt. But I think a revolt by the people in wh40k. is the last thing the IOM would want, because that would be Redemptionists. I have earlier suggested you to turn the revolts on the head, and make it to be a repression of the revolts. As that's more in line with the line of thought of the IOM.

The name Sturmkrieg is pretty established by now, but I could change it to the name of the capital planet and give the sector a different name. Some of the more German parts of it could be the WWI style fighters instead. That would prevent the highly mechanized army groups from being really German. The previous Sturmkrieg Empire was not willing to become a part of the Mechanicum, the ones making the discovery. Assisting the revolution was the easiest way for them to annex the Sturmkrieg Sector. It's also not a Communist revolution. Generally, I think of it as closer to the French Revolution, which would make it a Capitalist revolution. It's best not to think too much about that, because it can cause one to get stuck in a historical mold. I haven't written about the Volianvan Sector yet, but I could probably do a section about their role in overthrowing the Sturmkrieg Empire. It could be good, because they could have hesitation about it until Sternkampf agrees that it can sabotage the Sturmkrieg Empire fleets from within to prevent large attacks against the Volianvan Sector. It would mainly be the Mechanicum doing the annexation, so it might be slightly different.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
This thread is absurd.

This comment does not add to the discussion in any way.

Telling someone their comment does not add anything to the discussion in any way does not in any way add to the discussion at hand.

Back On topic.

I think German, as a language, works in a 40K setting, though you would need to write an actual sentence for it to work.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
I think Canadian would look more ridiculous eh

Too bad canadians don't say 'eh' more like fonzi from 'happy days'. That might make it infinitely more tolerable.

Yea they say it like this:



and:

The Imperium is based on the Roman Empire, which was destroyed by Germanic tribes. Of course German looks out of place.

What a weird thread.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
What a weird thread.

This post does not contribute to the discussion and is off topic. Please refrain from doing so in the future /parody post.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
What a weird thread.

This post does not contribute to the discussion and is off topic. Please refrain from doing so in the future /parody post.

Coming in and posting random stuff is insulting, potentially disruptive, and how flame wars get started.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
What a weird thread.

This post does not contribute to the discussion and is off topic. Please refrain from doing so in the future /parody post.

Coming in and posting random stuff is insulting, potentially disruptive, and how flame wars get started.

So is posting on a 40k forum about your insipid 40k setting that you consider canon and pretend to others that it is.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
What a weird thread.

This post does not contribute to the discussion and is off topic. Please refrain from doing so in the future /parody post.

Coming in and posting random stuff is insulting, potentially disruptive, and how flame wars get started.

It is time to realize everything you are doing has nothing to do with this hobby. STOP. I mean this not to be insulting but to get you to honestly realize that your setting has nothing to do with 40k.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
What a weird thread.

This post does not contribute to the discussion and is off topic. Please refrain from doing so in the future /parody post.

Coming in and posting random stuff is insulting, potentially disruptive, and how flame wars get started.

Posting poorly thought out topics that are about German Jew Russians in space and posting several topics in the off topic that have "dodgy" titles is insulting, potentially disruptive, and is how flame wars get started.

I'm glad to hear you've gotten over the German theme. Now, lets work on removing the Jewish and Soviet influences from your armies background. I'd suggest starting over, entirely.

 blood reaper wrote:
Posting poorly thought out topics that are about German Jew Russians in space and posting several topics in the off topic that have "dodgy" titles is insulting, potentially disruptive, and is how flame wars get started.

I'm glad to hear you've gotten over the German theme. Now, lets work on removing the Jewish and Soviet influences from your armies background. I'd suggest starting over, entirely.

The best suggestion yet.

And the cruel responses should give pause. I mean if people ain't liking what you are writing, then defending and explaining it will solve diddy.

Like the revolutions. Sorry that will not solve anything, as it's not the IOM's MO. No sir, they give you the choice surrender or die, not any third option. And Tau-like humans are a gigantic berserk-button as they get so much into Mary Sue-territory.

 kenshin620 wrote:
Of course languages would look silly in 40k

38-39k years in the future means the languages are probably quite different than todays. Heck it only took about a few decades (or a few hundred I guess depending on the historical context) to go from normal english to jive

Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side.