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 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Nerobellum wrote:

Uh....am I the only one confused by your post?

First you sound like you agree with thenoobbomb, then you talk about how you think the newcrons are a joke. I am confused.

Why are you confused?
I agreed with his post that NewCrons are bad when compared to OldCrons ( when it comes to fluff ).
And I added that NewCrons are jokes when compared to OldCrons.
Did I made this easier for you to understand now?

The post you quoted was a guy saying he likes the New Necrons.

To contribute however, what is your reason for thinking the Newcrons are jokes compared to Oldcrons?

 Nerobellum wrote:

The post you quoted was a guy saying he likes the New Necrons.

I just seen it again and I totally missed "doesn't". My apologies.

To contribute however, what is your reason for thinking the Newcrons are jokes compared to Oldcrons?

-sheer power, old Necrons were united horrors bent to dominate galaxy. New Necros are every Tomb World for themselves and all of them are fighting to be the most powerful of all Necron Dynasties, so new Necrons are basically at civil war just like they were when they were Necrontyr. The biggest reported Dynasty is Imotech's and he has only eighty worlds under his command, and that is small in comparison to other larger factions - even Tau Empire.

-FTL technology, old Necrons used such advanced FTL that they could pop whenever they want. New Necrons FTL is a joke, they need decades to the nearest star systems ( this totally retcons Mars attack because there is no way that their ships can suddenly appear in Sol System without old FTL ). And the only faster version for travel that they have is old Webway who is not safe because Eldar are constantly monitoring it and destroying entire Necron army's with their traps.

-fleet strenght, old Necrons have fleet that was the best in the galaxy ( Battlefleet Gothic is the only prof left of that ). New Necrons fleet is quite poor, entire armada with capital ship was destroyed by Black Templar Strike fleet. It was even mentioned that many ships were trying to run away from Space Marine ships. If Space Marine fleet can do that to them then Imperial Navy who has more powerful ships can literally rape them in every medium or major battle.

There are more, but this is from the top of my tongue. And this happens when you let Matt Ward to write fluff without supervision. This and arcs who have construction that looks like Ultramarine symbols.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Nerobellum wrote:

The post you quoted was a guy saying he likes the New Necrons.

I just seen it again and I totally missed "doesn't". My apologies.

To contribute however, what is your reason for thinking the Newcrons are jokes compared to Oldcrons?

-sheer power, old Necrons were united horrors bent to dominate galaxy. New Necros are every Tomb World for themselves and all of them are fighting to be the most powerful of all Necron Dynasties, so new Necrons are basically at civil war just like they were when they were Necrontyr. The biggest reported Dynasty is Imotech's and he has only eighty worlds under his command, and that is small in comparison to other larger factions - even Tau Empire.

-FTL technology, old Necrons used such advanced FTL that they could pop whenever they want. New Necrons FTL is a joke, they need decades to the nearest star systems ( this totally retcons Mars attack because there is no way that their ships can suddenly appear in Sol System without old FTL ). And the only faster version for travel that they have is old Webway who is not safe because Eldar are constantly monitoring it and destroying entire Necron army's with their traps.

-fleet strenght, old Necrons have fleet that was the best in the galaxy ( Battlefleet Gothic is the only prof left of that ). New Necrons fleet is quite poor, entire armada with capital ship was destroyed by Black Templar Strike fleet. It was even mentioned that many ships were trying to run away from Space Marine ships. If Space Marine fleet can do that to them then Imperial Navy who has more powerful ships can literally rape them in every medium or major battle.

There are more, but this is from the top of my tongue. And this happens when you let Matt Ward to write fluff without supervision. This and arcs who have construction that looks like Ultramarine symbols.

A fair assessment. I tend to see many of these things as more interesting characteristics, but can see where one would find issue.

Regarding the OP talking about the Wraith models, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one...I quite like them, and the Canoptek Spider, and I think it comes down to the fact that their poses aren't particularly aggressive or action-packed. Hear me out on this...

They put me in mind of how the Borg were portrayed in Star Trek: First Contact - quietly drifting about tinkering with their machines, ignoring intruders, but if you were to go up to one and prod at it you just know it'd slowly turn to you and then lash out. So it may just be a big floating robotic bug, but I think it's got character.

It's okay new necron lovers, you can come out of your shells, it's s-s-safe now!

There will always be some die hards from the last codex iteration clinging desperately to what was ostensibly pretty unoriginal fluff.

The new necron minis are fetch, however. Old necrons were possibly the dullest army in 40k, aesthetically.

I love it if you ignore half the fluff. Star gods all the way. On a related note, hooray for Trazyn.

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
I think its the new motive of the Necrons that fails to excite me, they are no longer Aliens in my mind, they have become too human.
Rebuilding their old empire. *yawn* Why would undead robots want an Empire? Build more tomb worlds? Boss about slaves? Collect resources? Return to being mortal?

While they certainly needed the fluff expanded the way it was done was really poor and felt like a copy and paste from the Tomb Kings.

They're poor, misunderstood metal men who just need a hug now.

I'll never understand the sentiment that the legion of essentially undead and implacable machines needed fluff that could make them "good guys", as the OP states.

I liked the new dex from the get go, before I even had the army. Mostly because I was tired of hearing from old players how their army go screwed. NAY NAY! I told them this was not the case. Now they are believers. I'm not much on fluff both playability. They are still hard to beat but fun in any case, with or against.

 Void__Dragon wrote:


I'll never understand the sentiment that the legion of essentially undead and implacable machines needed fluff that could make them "good guys", as the OP states.

Of course not- you hate interesting characters and factions. *uhuh

The only thing I dislike about the Newcron's is the abandonment of the Pariah gene concept, and their spank. The only clean loss I've ever seen the Necrons suffer is to the Imperial Guard mongolian regiment (can't remember their name), which is pretty lulzy, grimdark horses > Necrons, but it doesn't make up for the fact that they steamroll in every other fight they participate in.

That aside, I welcome the changes. Newcrons are an improvement over the Omnicidal toasters we had before. If you want a 1-dimensional faction with nothing interesting or complex about it, go play nids.

I copied the old fluff, copied the new rules, merged them into one document, printed it and had it bound. That's my Necron codex. That's how incredibly shatty the new "fluff" is. It's the written equivalent to a piece of poopoo squeezing another piece of poopoo then vomiting on it just to...2girls1cup the rest.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I copied the old fluff, copied the new rules, merged them into one document, printed it and had it bound. That's my Necron codex. That's how incredibly shatty the new "fluff" is. It's the written equivalent to a piece of poopoo squeezing another piece of poopoo then vomiting on it just to...2girls1cup the rest.

Funny, I think the same way of the oldcron fluff and it's all including "C'tan Gods", the Mary sue's have been laid to rest at least.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I copied the old fluff, copied the new rules, merged them into one document, printed it and had it bound. That's my Necron codex. That's how incredibly shatty the new "fluff" is. It's the written equivalent to a piece of poopoo squeezing another piece of poopoo then vomiting on it just to...2girls1cup the rest.

Funny, I think the same way of the oldcron fluff and it's all including "C'tan Gods", the Mary sue's have been laid to rest at least.

Well, after all, it's just up to subjective opinions. I, personally, prefer my plot without plotholes bigger than the warp

 Sigvatr wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I copied the old fluff, copied the new rules, merged them into one document, printed it and had it bound. That's my Necron codex. That's how incredibly shatty the new "fluff" is. It's the written equivalent to a piece of poopoo squeezing another piece of poopoo then vomiting on it just to...2girls1cup the rest.

Funny, I think the same way of the oldcron fluff and it's all including "C'tan Gods", the Mary sue's have been laid to rest at least.

Well, after all, it's just up to subjective opinions. I, personally, prefer my plot without plotholes bigger than the warp

I'm not sure why the newcrons are the only ones, considering the oldcrons had some iffy issues when it came down to figuring out their placement.

Which they didn't have since they had no characterization beyond "Shadow of Death", so they resided completely on using the Physical Gods for everything..And so everything went completely to crap, If they had done the C'tan better, I might've liked it, however the C'tan were becoming the ultimate threat of the galaxy, controlling an entire arm of the Imperium, pulling tricks behind the scenes for chaos and eldar, giving the fear of death to the entire universe and pulling tricks that makes me wonder if they were really, really trying to hard to make this faction look awesome.

Wouldn't have minded terminator robots, but the C'tan ruined everything for me when it came to that fluff.

idk why all you guys hate that the Necrons story has changed. in my mind, more Necrons have woken up, causing more sh*t to come out.

 Desubot wrote:

Now Codex: Poke'cron

I for one don't mind the new fluff but would of rather seen them kept more vague. like not giving them names instead of stuff like imhotek (oh god)
and there canoptic stuff looks awesome. (expect the forgeworld dragonfly (rule and model wise))

Fear not, friend, for Lord Commander Brandon Fraser of the Universal Pictures Marines will dispatch this foe easily and get the girl!

Varguard Erekh wrote:
idk why all you guys hate that the Necrons story has changed. in my mind, more Necrons have woken up, causing more sh*t to come out.

Change is the proper word.

They aren't Necrons anymore. The old fluff has issues which needed to be addressed, but the newcron codex, rather than addressing and resolving the issues, just rewrote just about everything about the faction barring their name. The feel of the army was almost entirely lost, either by outright deleting an aspect of the army (The cosmic horror appeal for one) or going way overboard with a trait that used to be subtle (EGYPTIANZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Of course not- you hate interesting characters and factions. *uhuh

The only thing I dislike about the Newcron's is the abandonment of the Pariah gene concept, and their spank. The only clean loss I've ever seen the Necrons suffer is to the Imperial Guard mongolian regiment (can't remember their name), which is pretty lulzy, grimdark horses > Necrons, but it doesn't make up for the fact that they steamroll in every other fight they participate in.

That aside, I welcome the changes. Newcrons are an improvement over the Omnicidal toasters we had before. If you want a 1-dimensional faction with nothing interesting or complex about it, go play nids.

So you prefer emotional, super sensitive metal girlymen huh? That must be why you like Ravenguard, you filthy animal.

The new codex is great. It's what I was waiting for to start the Crons. However I did play with my friends old codex quite a bit and I really don't like the new fluff or the new stats. WWBB is very unlikely which kinda what the Crons were based around. In all the fluff, books especially, they just keep getting back up but in the real game they rarely do. While fighting the 3rd Crons was annoying a heck, I feel like it was more in line with their nature.

As for models, the new Flayed Ones look awful. And I really wish they had kept Pariahs and the old Wraiths. But overall the new models are pretty cool, even if they are a little too Egyptian (Crypteks especially).

Overall I give fluff 6/10 and new models 9/10.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Varguard Erekh wrote:
idk why all you guys hate that the Necrons story has changed. in my mind, more Necrons have woken up, causing more sh*t to come out.

Change is the proper word.

They aren't Necrons anymore. The old fluff has issues which needed to be addressed, but the newcron codex, rather than addressing and resolving the issues, just rewrote just about everything about the faction barring their name. The feel of the army was almost entirely lost, either by outright deleting an aspect of the army (The cosmic horror appeal for one) or going way overboard with a trait that used to be subtle (EGYPTIANZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ).

Very good post, exalted as it hits the nail on the head.

Yes, the old Necron fluff was incredibly bland and if you want to be mean and not precise, you can call them robot Tyranids. But it's the reason why I play Necrons - Necrons always were that ungraspeable threat at the rim of the universe of mindless robots, coming from a people that had the most terrible life you can imagine with everyone dying at a very low age. All cities were nothing but giant tombs with everyone living in misery knowing you'll die soon. The C'tan were their only choice to escape their fate and thus they accepted the deal, not knowing that The Deceiver would...deceive them. I could really understand those guys, I'd have done the same.

I loved and still love the proper Necron fluff. I do not discuss anything about the new fluff and will reject anyone telling me it's canon. I don't care for what is official or not, to me, it's the old fluff and the new fluff never happened. There's no Overlord Imotekh, it's an Enslaver.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The feel of the army was almost entirely lost, either by outright deleting an aspect of the army (The cosmic horror appeal for one) or going way overboard with a trait that used to be subtle (EGYPTIANZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ).

And here I thought the feel of Necrons were an implacable army of automated soldiers, which they still are. But clearly I must be wrong since you say the opposite.

Stop liking what I don't like.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
And here I thought the feel of Necrons were an implacable army of automated soldiers, which they still are. But clearly I must be wrong since you say the opposite.

They were hard to kill and happened to be robots, but they were also enigmatic, alien and robotic in mindset, rather than, despite my exagerrations of their new character, metal men. Really, in what way do they differ from human beings, other than the fact that they happen to be made of metal? Even the more severe eccentricities of Overlords like Zandrekh still doesn't differ to a particularly great extent, even if only by 40k grimdark standards. The Necrons were one of the few aliens that actually felt alien a good portion of the time. Now, they are no different and in many cases better than humans.

But good to see that you are wise enough to defer to a higher power (me), rather than foolishly opposing it.

And I don't hold anything against those who like newcrons despite what Chumbalaya seems to be implying, but if you're going to make a thread stating your opinion on them, you will get opinions contrary to it.

Blax sucks though, feth that guy, he smells bad and probably isn't very good at Basketball.

They were hard to kill and happened to be robots, but they were also enigmatic, alien and robotic in mindset, rather than, despite my exagerrations of their new character, metal men.

Alien? Enigmatic? They were simply pawns of C'tan, being used by C'tan, and generally the robotic mindset came about because their Masters desired it that way. Sure the C'tan however are Enigmatic and alien, but the robots themselves were just dull pawns, about the same as Thousand Sons who have become dust and fused to their armor, but you don't see people calling their mindset alien and Enigmatic, but they certainly are robotic too

They didn't have much mindset really to go on.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Alien? Enigmatic? They were simply pawns of C'tan, being used by C'tan, and generally the robotic mindset came about because their Masters desired it that way. Sure the C'tan however are Enigmatic and alien, but the robots themselves were just dull pawns, about the same as Thousand Sons who have become dust and fused to their armor, but you don't see people calling their mindset alien and Enigmatic.

They didn't have much mindset really to go on.

They had a severe hatred of life and the happiness of others before they ever met the C'tan. They were always a grim, cold, even sociopathic by human standards people.

The upper echelons of the Necrons were always capable of independent thought and action, as well as character. Whether you knew this or not does not change the fact that it was true. Hell, a Necron Lord even carries a conversation with an Inquisitor in Xenology. This should have been expanded on, and I'll even say I like some of the new Necron Lords, like Imhotek (Stupid name notwithstanding) or Szeras. Trazyn is a bit cartoonish for my tastes but this is 40k so I could bear with that.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The feel of the army was almost entirely lost, either by outright deleting an aspect of the army (The cosmic horror appeal for one) or going way overboard with a trait that used to be subtle (EGYPTIANZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ).

And here I thought the feel of Necrons were an implacable army of automated soldiers, which they still are. But clearly I must be wrong since you say the opposite.

But they're not, are they? They aren't cold calculating machines that tirelessly move towards an objective, completely soulless.

They're just like the leaders of any other race, except they haven't learned anything from mistakes made millions of years ago.

This is just my opinion, but fluff-wise i think the problem is the army archetype. If you want high-tech, then I feel Tau have a better style to fit that. If you want old, Eldar are much better "fall from grace" kind burnt out army of 40k. Sure "mindless evil" was kind of taken by tyranids, but they are completely primal and animalistic, if Ward had done it right, he would have taken them to a more unique, calculating area.

I think they could have made all the new models (which I absolutely love, by the way) but put into a more interesting storyline. They just don't have the same feeling of utter doom they used to, they are just any other inconsistent, flawed, squabling race now.

For anyone who either doesn't care for aspects of the new fluff, or might want to see another take on it, read Tome of Fate, a Black Crusade RPG supplement that I never shut up about. FFG tends to have good 40k fluff in general IMO, and I really liked the Necron fluff inside.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Alien? Enigmatic? They were simply pawns of C'tan, being used by C'tan, and generally the robotic mindset came about because their Masters desired it that way. Sure the C'tan however are Enigmatic and alien, but the robots themselves were just dull pawns, about the same as Thousand Sons who have become dust and fused to their armor, but you don't see people calling their mindset alien and Enigmatic.

They didn't have much mindset really to go on.

They had a severe hatred of life and the happiness of others before they ever met the C'tan. They were always a grim, cold, even sociopathic by human standards people.

The upper echelons of the Necrons were always capable of independent thought and action, as well as character. Whether you knew this or not does not change the fact that it was true. Hell, a Necron Lord even carries a conversation with an Inquisitor in Xenology. This should have been expanded on, and I'll even say I like some of the new Necron Lords, like Imhotek (Stupid name notwithstanding) or Szeras. Trazyn is a bit cartoonish for my tastes but this is 40k so I could bear with that.

So essentially, the Necron lords were the Thousand Son psykers, while the rest was the standard thousand sons. I knew it, but the analogy still fits really, and the backstory only works if its still in play, which most of it wasn't as they were all controlled souls in robotic shells.

I have no beef with the "newcrons" in fact the army feels more like an empire now then just some random skeletons come to life.

The Thousand Sons are entirely human(ish) psykers whose motives and mindsets are not particularly alien. The similarity to the Thousand Sons is only in that the rank and file of their number are mindless automatons, with the leaders being less so.

Altayre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The feel of the army was almost entirely lost, either by outright deleting an aspect of the army (The cosmic horror appeal for one) or going way overboard with a trait that used to be subtle (EGYPTIANZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ).

And here I thought the feel of Necrons were an implacable army of automated soldiers, which they still are. But clearly I must be wrong since you say the opposite.

But they're not, are they? They aren't cold calculating machines that tirelessly move towards an objective, completely soulless.

They're just like the leaders of any other race, except they haven't learned anything from mistakes made millions of years ago.

I never mentioned anyone's leaders, so I'm not sure what you're arguing for here. The soldiers were mindless minions and still are.

Hate the new necron fluff...I loved that they were a robotic race of killers...they were like the tyranids, except metal skin! I also liked that they weren't really their own army, they were slaves of a higher power that you controlled...now they're just 40k's tomb kings, which is a shame