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Give this 3 posts before its locked :(
Ok, look the OPs point was badly phrased/thought out but the underlying angst against him is nonsense.

Logic is requested please!

 Trench-Raider wrote:
Please....
"Canadian" is no more a "race" than "American", "British" or "Mexican". Thus it's not by definiton "racism".

Yet more proof that this little Marxist construct of a word has been over-used and mis-used to the point that it has no real meaning in today's world aside from "racist=someone I disagree with".

TR

Racism - a word used almost as reflexively, almost as "over-used and mis-used to the point that it has no real meaning in today's world" as the word "Marxist."

"Marxist=someone I disagree with."

Have you ever even read Marx? Just curious.

This thread is a real mess. So I don't mind a couple of quick off-topic points....

GW's prices have kept pace with inflation in general, and

Please don't lie, Ailaros. We've been over this before. Since circa 1990 or so GW's prices have risen between 500 and 700% depending on the item. That's quite a bit more than the general inflation rate. Shall I do the side by side price comparison of original prices vs today's retail again?

TedNugent- I have actually. But I'm not refering to the original writings of Marx.

The exact origin of the term "racist" is unknown, but is thought to has first popped up in the late 19th century or early 20th. It's first use in the political context was in Leon Trotsky's (yes, THAT Trotsky) book "History of the Russian Revolution" in 1932. In it, Trotsky used the term much as it is often used today: as a verbal weapon to shame political opponents into silence. The mis-use of "racist" as a "shut up" word certainly is a Marxist tactic/construct. It was pioneered by Trotsky. It was popularized by Alinsky. And it's still being used/mis-used in the same manner by Cultural Marxists and other leftists today.

TR

you know the pricing is starting to get crazy when in aus its CHEAPER to buy FW that the regular models..... sigh GW...

Slayer222 wrote:
Hi I have been playing Warhammer 40k for a while and noticed all the price increases. Since the last few years the prices have sky rocketed past any reasonable measure. I would like to find out what people think of the gw price increase and how it affects their gaming.

Just about every third thread on Dakka is someone moaning about prices. It shouldn't be to hard to figure out how people feel about it.

Trench-Raider wrote:We've been over this before. Since circa 1990 or so GW's prices have risen between 500 and 700% depending on the item.

Put your money where your mouth is. If, as you claim, the price of GW's minis have increased by 30% per year, then you can make an absolute FORTUNE on GW products. Hell, the stock market only gets you 4%, on a good year, and treasury bonds get you roughly 0%.

Either you're some magic genius who now has more money than he knows what to do with, or you're wrong.

The issue with the year over year price comparisons is that sculpts change. The newer models are worth more than the old to most people and also sell for more. Comparing the current price of a Carnifex to the old screamer killer isn't an even comparison.

Darrett wrote:
The issue with the year over year price comparisons is that sculpts change. The newer models are worth more than the old to most people and also sell for more. Comparing the current price of a Carnifex to the old screamer killer isn't an even comparison.

A lot of sculpts have not changed, and yet the price continues to increase year over year. There is evidently little connection between price increases and new sculpts. Many people have pointed out cases in which models have been in production for years and years and yet are subjected to continuous price increases.

How long have the current batch of Terminator squad been in production? And yet the price stands at $50, or $10 per model.

By contrast, Dark Vengeance, which includes entirely new sculpts, is ~$2 a model. GW doesn't always price based on cost, either in the case of Dark Vengeance or other model kits where they are selling above cost. Price is not based solely on cost, but also on demand. DV is clearly sold under cost, but it's sold that way in order to market the rest of the IP and the game system and sell items that are above cost. DV partly shows that the date of sculpt is not the only determinant of price changes, but price changes are based on marketing strategies as well as demand.

It has nothing to do with racism, and little to do with importing costs. Fact: For anything over a couple of boxes in quantity, I can purchase in the UK/US, ship it to Australia, and still pay less than purchasing on the GW site with free shipping or instore.

It has everything to do with what their customers will pay. Australia (and I presume Canada also) have been gouged on price for decades by everyone from GW to petrol companies to Apple. Why? Because we're used to it, and we pay it. We have strong economies with high levels of disposable income, and we are used to paying exorbitantly high prices for consumer goods.

Simple answer: stop doing it. There are cheaper options available to you, so use them.

*edit* on corporate greed: Companies do not have a social responsibility to provide you with the stuff you want at the lowest possible price. They have a legal obligation to maximise profits for their shareholders. Prices will only reduce if that has a net benefit to profitability - i.e. if sales stagnate because of high prices. As long as people keep paying it, prices will keep going up.

Even GW's competition are not pricing lower out of the goodness of their hearts; they are consciously tapping into the sort of hippie angst that festers in these threads to sell more of their own stuff.

 ruprecht wrote:


Even GW's competition are not pricing lower out of the goodness of their hearts; they are consciously tapping into the sort of hippie angst that festers in these threads to sell more of their own stuff.

Does "hippie angst" have to preclude you from supporting a business whose practices you agree with?

As you say, "stop doing it," but unfortunately the cards are stacked, and we don't live even remotely in a market or demand driven economy. Government peddles contracts and laws around to various "campaign donors" and people who offer them bribes, and as a result it's not always possible to for instance import an alternative or even produce your own material domestically due to various legal restrictions.

We aren't living in an ideal world, in that sense, and I don't think that people have really gotten to the heart of the problem, and the "simple answer" of "stop buying it" is just too simple, it removes too many of the variables, and it doesn't advance the discussion in a way that solves problems. Perhaps it would be better if we just said "these prices are too high for me to purchase," or "these prices will not dissuade me from a purchase," or perhaps this subject merits its own offtopic subforum where the mods can sweep all the refuse.

 TedNugent wrote:

Does "hippie angst" have to preclude you from supporting a business whose practices you agree with?

As you say, "stop doing it," but unfortunately the cards are stacked, and we don't live even remotely in a market or demand driven economy. Government peddles contracts and laws around to various "campaign donors" and people who offer them bribes, and as a result it's not always possible to for instance import an alternative or even produce your own material domestically due to various legal restrictions.

We aren't living in an ideal world, in that sense, and I don't think that people have really gotten to the heart of the problem, and the "simple answer" of "stop buying it" is just too simple, it removes too many of the variables, and it doesn't advance the discussion in a way that solves problems. Perhaps it would be better if we just said "these prices are too high for me to purchase," or "these prices will not dissuade me from a purchase," or perhaps this subject merits its own offtopic subforum where the mods can sweep all the refuse.

I get that I'm new here so I'm not going to bite any further. There's also a few strawmen in there, which doesn't bode well for a reasoned conclusion. Peace.

 Ailaros wrote:

Trench-Raider wrote:We've been over this before. Since circa 1990 or so GW's prices have risen between 500 and 700% depending on the item.

Put your money where your mouth is. If, as you claim, the price of GW's minis have increased by 30% per year, then you can make an absolute FORTUNE on GW products. Hell, the stock market only gets you 4%, on a good year, and treasury bonds get you roughly 0%.

Either you're some magic genius who now has more money than he knows what to do with, or you're wrong.

Oooh, I touched a nerve, didn't I?
Ah well, the GW apologists tend to get all frothy at the mouth and lash out when their masters in Notingham get spoken ill of, so no big suprise.

Ok, I'll paraphrase it once again for those who missed it the first time:
.
In 1990 a box of 30 RTB101 "Imperial Space Marines" cost between 20 and 24$. The box scans I have seen show the price to be 9.99 British Pounds (or about 20$ at the exchange rate of those days), but I recall paying more. We'll run with the price I can prove. A five figure box at the GW store now costs a flat 25$. At the British price I quote above, the price increase is 750%. If we go with the price I recall payig at the time, the increase is still 650%.
At the time of intitial release a blister of five metal Eldar Aspect Warriors cost 7$. Metal is now long gone, but the closest thing out there is Finecrap. A box of 6 Finecrap Aspects is now 41.25. Add in in the extra 1.40 for the extra figure missing from the blister and you get an increase of 490%. I'll be fair and not compare the price of the short lived "two Land Raiders in one box for 30$" to the current model, but once they were packaged as a single model for 24$ the current cost of 74.25 gives us a modest 300%ish increase...so I guess land Raiders are a good deal after all! Shall I go on, or is that enough? I could REALY show you some inflation if we start to compare the prices of character models....

Of course you have seen all this before and apparently ignored it the first time, Ailaros. The first time we can write it off as just being mistaken. That's not shameful. After all, anyone can be wrong. But you were shown the stats before and yet you still make that absurd claim that GW's prices have stayed in line with inflation. The only conclusion is that you are willfully lying,

TR

@trench raider

While I understand the broad point you're making, failing to allow for resculpts does undermine your argument somewhat. Taking the LR is a larger, more substantial and imo better looking model than the old one. Now that in and of itself doesn't account for the whole discrepancy, but allowances need to be made.

After all, a modern car may cost more money than it's 1990 equivalent, even allowing for inflation, but it will be a much more refined, efficient and better equipped machine that shares nothing with the old one but it's name.

Wat da wat.

Dear lord what a mess

GW is a British company, hence why we have the base rate prices. All other prices for other countries are calculated via a dodgy conversion system and a slight inflation.
The reason prices may look better when ordering from another country is that different currencies are worth more on different days.

 azreal13 wrote:
@trench raider

While I understand the broad point you're making, failing to allow for resculpts does undermine your argument somewhat. Taking the LR is a larger, more substantial and imo better looking model than the old one. Now that in and of itself doesn't account for the whole discrepancy, but allowances need to be made.

After all, a modern car may cost more money than it's 1990 equivalent, even allowing for inflation, but it will be a much more refined, efficient and better equipped machine that shares nothing with the old one but it's name.

+1

I don't care if you used to be able to buy 30 Marines for less than the current cost of 10. Those old models are old, goofy in comparison & far less detailed and more simplistic. The old Land Raider looks like absolute gak compared to the 'modern' version.

Not to mention, I find that the newer kits are far, far easier in general to assemble than the older kits, which IMHO also counts as a reasonable reason for said product costing a bit more. I mean, one of the best things about all the newer Imperial tank kits is no longer being required to build the fething wheels+track assemblies bit by teeny-tiny bit. (no matter how careful you were, it was almost impossible to avoid a slight gap/odd join on those old IG tank track assemblies! )

Besides, at the end of the day, GW is still a pretty cheap hobby overall.
Warhammer overall costs just a few dollars when you compare it to the likes of PC/console gaming, competitive (rep team) sports, paintball/airsoft, drinking/smoking, etc...
Hell, the one year, my parents spent about 8-9k on my rep hockey season! (as it included 7 tounaments + provincials + a trip to England/Scotland for 5 friendlies)

Well we all know GW price gouges, but Racism? I think the word you are looking for is bigotry.

There are economic facts we have to take into consideration as well:

1. Does GW manufacture the models in country?
2. What is the cost to manufacture locally?
3. If not manufactured locally what is the price to import the models?
4. What is the demand for supply?
5. How greedy can GW be and still get away with it?

Don't get me wrong. I am not justifying there price increases. I could understand an increase to match inflation say 5-8% but they usually CRUSH that with increases. I am sure if you ever got an explanation from Corporate it would look something like what I have listed. Just my two cents.

While I understand the broad point you're making

The point I'm making is that our friend, Ailaros, told a flat out lie when he repeated the statement that GW's prices have stayed in line with inflation. Look, although I disagree with them, I respect the opinions of the fanboys and GW-apologists. Everyone is entitled to be wrong. But I take issue when they try to support their views by going so far as to telling lies. His tendency to tell outright lies refelcts poorly on his integrety and honor. That he would attempt to tell alie about something so easily checked also brings into question his judgement and/or intelligence.

failing to allow for resculpts does undermine your argument somewhat

Not really.
I freely admit there has been a general improvement in quality over the years...although I dislike the direction that the scultping style has taken in recent years. The fact of the matter is that other comapnies do rescuplts without stooping to GW's pricing model and their shady ethical practices. Likewise, GW is out of line with much of the wargaming industry in terms of pricing. True enogh, some other companies out there have followed GW's "soak 'em for all they are worth" pricing model. But others have not. For example the Perrys produce 28mm miniatures of similar (I would say higher) quality for a fraction of the cost. The same could be said of Vitrix's Napoleonics and Warlord's growing WW2 range.

don't care if you used to be able to buy 30 Marines for less than the current cost of 10

Really? So the increase in quality os worth a 750% increase in price? I disagree.

Those old models are old, goofy in comparison & far less detailed and more simplistic

That is a matter of opinon...not one I share. I actually prefer simpler, less cluttered lines. In any event, it's far too broad a statement. Sure, some of those older figures do not stand up well today. But others do. For example the Jes Goodwin Eldar are as good as anything in the current Eldar range.

a reasonable reason for said product costing a bit more

750$ is NOT "a bit more". Likewise, pricing 300% more than similar products of similar quality (I'm comparing the price to Perry Brothers' plastics here) is not "reasonable".

TR

Here in Canada we pay 15-70 percent more for most items even though our dollar is at par with the US, so as much as i dont like it games workshop isnt really out of line with their pricing. I vote with my wallet and cross border shop to the United States as much as possible.

Slayer222 wrote:
Hi I have been playing Warhammer 40k for a while and noticed all the price increases. Since the last few years the prices have sky rocketed past any reasonable measure. I would like to find out what people think of the gw price increase and how it affects their gaming.
I would also like to point out that depending on where you buy the products you get an additional fee. for example 5 death company boxes it costs 192 dollars around Canada before taxes. while it costs 138 dollars Canadian if you go to the united kingdoms.

Hi everyone!

I thought this is a really insightful post from Slayer222. Why do people just focus on the word 'racist'? I'll steer clear away and give my thoughts on price increase instead.

The current cost of minitures in Canada has driven me out of buying from my GW store. It has lead me to buy from US discount game stores, but this avenue is slowly dimishing with the trade blocks and US postal increase. GW models price increases has inflated to a point that even of online gaming store discounts, my other forms of entertainment are getting more bang for the buck. Back in 2008 people like to argue that 40K is cheaper then video games. Today, at least in Canada, I can make the reverse argument that video gaming cost less than playing 40K 'as it is intended' (Terrain, 2k pt army, paints).

This yearly price increase has cause me not to recommand GW games to my friends anymore. I understand that GW is a business and can charge whatever they want. but I really don't think the Canadian market can handle such high costs in gaming. I love GW, especially Dark Angels. GW get me hooked again to start a DA army. I thought that with Dark Vengence having all wing varients it will be realetive cheap to get a 2k point all wing army. I bought 3x Ravening Knights and 3x Deathwing at a discount store for $300CAD, very expensive but I'm stilling willing to part money at this price. However at GW Canada, I would be charged $440.7CAD after tax, which I won't spend that kind of money no matter what how much I love DA.

My parting questions is to those who live in US or UK. let's assume that this year, the price increase matches the equivlent of Canada and Australia (you can check prices by selecting the country in the GW website, USD, CAD, AUS right now only has a slight exchange difference) how will it affect your new purchases? Especially if you want to say start a new army or just buying a model becuase you like the scrupt? Oh, also assume you can't get any discounts and pay offical GW prices.

To answer my own question, I would give up playing GW games given the Canadian prices. Maybe I would buy one off games like Space Hulk or Deadfleet. or buy 1 or 2 models per year for painting.

Why do people just focus on the word 'racist'?

Two big reasons, in my opinion.

First it was such an absurd mis-use of the word that many people felt the need to comment on it. In hindsight, I really don't blaim the OP. He's just a kid, and given how rampant that over-use/mis-use of the term has become in recent years it's not a surpise he applied it in a knee-jerk manner without thinking. He's also a Canadian. So he grew up in an enviorment of draconian "hate speach" laws and "Human Rights Tribunals" (aka kangaroo courts), which makes it even more likely he would reflexively apply the word were it did not belong. Nothing against Canadians mind you.

More importantly, it's indicative of a broader trend. People are damned tired of the word "racist" being thrown around at the drop of a hat and bogus accusations of "racism" being used as a political weapon. As I point out above, it began life as a shady political weapon, and it's still used as such on a large scale. The result is that many, many people (myself included) have had enough of the shenanegins and have started to sneer at, or even lash out agressively at anyone who throws the word around. Through over-use and mis-use the word has lost most of what meaning it ever had and has become about as relevant as calling someone a "mean 'ol poopyhead". And that's a good thing. As I have said before, "racist" has become today's version of the dreaded "n word". That is to say it's little more than a nasty little slur designed to Menace, marginalize, and silence people. I look forward to the day in which people who mis-use it will be treated with the same amount of public scorn.

TR

.

Well I bought my first IG army 8 years ago . I was the classic kid customer then . 15 , cash from parents and family . If I had to buy the same models today , and they make up the bulk of my army, I would never have starrted to play w40k . It costs too much for me now . I could go through 5th adn 6th , because all I had to do was buy 4 vendettas and order some melta guns and even that took me almost a year to get . I dont envy the new players starting now with dual foc , ally etc.

 ruprecht wrote:
It has nothing to do with racism, and little to do with importing costs. Fact: For anything over a couple of boxes in quantity, I can purchase in the UK/US, ship it to Australia, and still pay less than purchasing on the GW site with free shipping or instore.

It has everything to do with what their customers will pay. Australia (and I presume Canada also) have been gouged on price for decades by everyone from GW to petrol companies to Apple. Why? Because we're used to it, and we pay it. We have strong economies with high levels of disposable income, and we are used to paying exorbitantly high prices for consumer goods.

Simple answer: stop doing it. There are cheaper options available to you, so use them.

*edit* on corporate greed: Companies do not have a social responsibility to provide you with the stuff you want at the lowest possible price. They have a legal obligation to maximise profits for their shareholders. Prices will only reduce if that has a net benefit to profitability - i.e. if sales stagnate because of high prices. As long as people keep paying it, prices will keep going up.

Even GW's competition are not pricing lower out of the goodness of their hearts; they are consciously tapping into the sort of hippie angst that festers in these threads to sell more of their own stuff.

Okay my point is mainly about Canada's laws and tarriffs. As to Australia from what i know there is no way prices should be that high but apparently the market will bear it so GW shall continue.

GW is racist against Canadians because universal healthcare isn't Grimdark enough.

But more in line with your question, it's pretty absurd how expensive things have gotten lately. I mean, I'm fairly new to the party and I'm glad I don't have to pay the extortionary rates that Australians do, but still. I think they'd get much better business if they dropped the prices by about 10%, because I sure as hell would buy more.

Slayer222 wrote:
I used racism because my friend Alex once went to Britain on a trip and when he was their they wouldn't sell him any models 3 years ago. So sorry if it is a bit strong use of language but i don't have a different descriptive word to use. (so yes you can call it bad business)

I'm not calling you a liar, either. But I think you're lying by telling a lie.

Also, you don't know what Racism means.

They're being greedy, no doubt. Their prices currently don't reflect the stronger than historical Canadian Dollar versus the British Pound Moneys, but that's just greed. Not Racism.

Stay in school.