Buy Finecast? Where?

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**Amaya**

Aside from the ubiquitous issue of larger metal models requiring pinning, modeling putty to fill gaps, and other assembly issues. Finecast is much better for conversions. Plastic would be better than either.

**HAZZER**

I agree finecast is better to convert, drill sand cut in every way compared to white metal-which could bend easily...

**Skinnereal**

I held out on Eldar Finecast after having a problem with the Autarch when it was released.
Until last week, when I bought a box of Warp Spiders.
I couldn't see any issues at all, on any of the 5 models and parts.

So, if it's a later release, try it, but only buy it from the store, if you can.

**wowsmash**

What if I don't want to convert it. What if I just want the model as it appears on the box. Guess that leaves me gak out of luck then huh? I can't get an intact finecast model in my location. No lgs stock them because of the return rates so that leave one option doesn't it. You have any idea what a finecast model looks like after the post office drops it off. Not pretty. I don't care if its harder to pin or convert. I just want the damn model to be whole when I get it without me having to resculpte half the freakin model. It doesn't help that my sculpting skills suck. So by the time I get done with it it looks like a 6 year olds had at it. It's not amusing

**Bossk_Hogg**

marielle wrote:
Why is it that whenever Finecast is mentioned people turn into the type of semi demented pensioner on a bus who thinks people want to know about their medical procedures?

Because its more like when someone asks "Does anyone know where Dr X's office is", they feel obliged to give people a heads up that he cant't tell a turd from a stethoscope.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cincydooley wrote:
NickF509 wrote:

A long time ago I used to have a paintball business. The markup was poor but it was something i liked. Eventually the manufacturer started selling products, I could still get the items at a slightly lower price and sell them marginally under the manufacturer's price but the manufacturer would have sales or include items and they would make it impossible to match. I could not buy the item at cost for less than they were selling it for "on sale."

Because of this it really bothers me when a manufacturer cuts out the middle man which is essentially what GW is trying to do. It's too bad I enjoy warhammer so much more than the other games out there (warma/hordes, malifaux, infinity, etc.) or else I would quit before I start but I just like the game too much. Warhammer still has the possibility of coming back if the current CEO or management board (whomever decided to limit online sales to their company only in 2006) retires in the next year or two.

This is such an odd opinion to me. Aren't people usually trying to cut out the middle man?

It depends on if you have/value a game store as a place to play, or if the middle man provides additional services. In this particular case, the manufacturer offers no monetary or service incentive to buy from them and just pockets the extra money, so why would you?

**judgedoug**

The only Finecast model I've bought - Sammael - has been total gak. Holes everywhere and sword bent. GW customer service told me to buy liquid greenstuff and heat up the sword to bend it back, and refused to let me return it.

My friend bought a Necron kit direct from GW with some sort of finecast guns to upgrade some Necron thing to something else. All the guns were bent, and one was snapped, and GW also refused a return on that one.

**Skinnereal**

judgedoug wrote:
The only Finecast model I've bought - Sammael - has been total gak. Holes everywhere and sword bent. GW customer service told me to buy liquid greenstuff and heat up the sword to bend it back, and refused to let me return it.

My friend bought a Necron kit direct from GW with some sort of finecast guns to upgrade some Necron thing to something else. All the guns were bent, and one was snapped, and GW also refused a return on that one.

Was that GW store or GW customer services? If one doesn't work, try the other.
But, bent models have always been common. Gacky casts, that's worth kicking up a stink about.

**HAZZER**

Tbh not all finecast has bad casts, I was looking at my friends wreith gurads today and were perfection!

**Selym**

HAZZER wrote:
Tbh not all finecast has bad casts, I was looking at my friends wreith gurads today and were perfection!

Yeah, but the problem is that there are so many miscasts, and there is so much inconsistency with the quality of finecast models that many people see the entire range as a waste of money, there being a good chance you won't get your money's worth...

**HAZZER**

Selym wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Tbh not all finecast has bad casts, I was looking at my friends wreith gurads today and were perfection!

Yeah, but the problem is that there are so many miscasts, and there is so much inconsistency with the quality of finecast models that many people see the entire range as a waste of money, there being a good chance you won't get your money's worth...

Exactly. Why dont the GW mokey slaves casting this realise this?

**Selym**

HAZZER wrote:
Selym wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Tbh not all finecast has bad casts, I was looking at my friends wreith gurads today and were perfection!

Yeah, but the problem is that there are so many miscasts, and there is so much inconsistency with the quality of finecast models that many people see the entire range as a waste of money, there being a good chance you won't get your money's worth...

Exactly. Why dont the GW mokey slaves casting this realise this?

Because many people buy them anyway, as there is often no plastic/metal alternative for a needed unit (Such as the Necron HQ choices, or chaos daemon HQ's).

**HAZZER**

Selym wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Selym wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Tbh not all finecast has bad casts, I was looking at my friends wreith gurads today and were perfection!

Yeah, but the problem is that there are so many miscasts, and there is so much inconsistency with the quality of finecast models that many people see the entire range as a waste of money, there being a good chance you won't get your money's worth...

Exactly. Why dont the GW mokey slaves casting this realise this?

Because many people buy them anyway, as there is often no plastic/metal alternative for a needed unit (Such as the Necron HQ choices, or chaos daemon HQ's).

Yea, but gw are starting to put out plastic HQ's for each new codex release. So maybe in 7th ed and tau and eldar get updated, they may get plastic HQ's as well!

**nolzur**

HAZZER wrote:
Yea, but gw are starting to put out plastic HQ's for each new codex release. So maybe in 7th ed and tau and eldar get updated, they may get plastic HQ's as well!

Really? So you are telling me I can go buy Belial, Azrael, Asmodai, and Sammael in plastic now? Awesome.

For my second army, Daemons, I can go buy all my heralds in plastic as well? Oh, and the Greater Daemons too? Sweet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat860007a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Please show me the new plastic HQs here.

**Selym**

nolzur wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Yea, but gw are starting to put out plastic HQ's for each new codex release. So maybe in 7th ed and tau and eldar get updated, they may get plastic HQ's as well!

Really? So you are telling me I can go buy Belial, Azrael, Asmodai, and Sammael in plastic now? Awesome.

For my second army, Daemons, I can go buy all my heralds in plastic as well? Oh, and the Greater Daemons too? Sweet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat860007a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Please show me the new plastic HQs here.

*sigh* god damnit, GW

**HAZZER**

Selym wrote:
nolzur wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Yea, but gw are starting to put out plastic HQ's for each new codex release. So maybe in 7th ed and tau and eldar get updated, they may get plastic HQ's as well!

Really? So you are telling me I can go buy Belial, Azrael, Asmodai, and Sammael in plastic now? Awesome.

For my second army, Daemons, I can go buy all my heralds in plastic as well? Oh, and the Greater Daemons too? Sweet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat860007a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Please show me the new plastic HQs here.
*sigh* god damnit, GW

Ok that kinda made me look stupid, basicly GW are starting to bring out HQ or squad upgrate plastics (however, they are oten 1-2 kits per codex ).

**Selym**

HAZZER wrote:
Selym wrote:
nolzur wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Yea, but gw are starting to put out plastic HQ's for each new codex release. So maybe in 7th ed and tau and eldar get updated, they may get plastic HQ's as well!

Really? So you are telling me I can go buy Belial, Azrael, Asmodai, and Sammael in plastic now? Awesome.

For my second army, Daemons, I can go buy all my heralds in plastic as well? Oh, and the Greater Daemons too? Sweet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat860007a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Please show me the new plastic HQs here.
*sigh* god damnit, GW

Ok that kinda made me look stupid, basicly GW are starting to bring out HQ or squad upgrate plastics (however, they are oten 1-2 kits per codex ).

While that is true, you cannot use special characters or certain types of units without finecast (Good examples being the greater daemons, any special characters that have been updated in the past year, and plague marines or sternguard...)

**HAZZER**

Selym wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Selym wrote:
nolzur wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Yea, but gw are starting to put out plastic HQ's for each new codex release. So maybe in 7th ed and tau and eldar get updated, they may get plastic HQ's as well!

Really? So you are telling me I can go buy Belial, Azrael, Asmodai, and Sammael in plastic now? Awesome.

For my second army, Daemons, I can go buy all my heralds in plastic as well? Oh, and the Greater Daemons too? Sweet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat860007a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Please show me the new plastic HQs here.
*sigh* god damnit, GW

Ok that kinda made me look stupid, basicly GW are starting to bring out HQ or squad upgrate plastics (however, they are oten 1-2 kits per codex ).

While that is true, you cannot use special characters or certain types of units without finecast (Good examples being the greater daemons, any special characters that have been updated in the past year, and plague marines or sternguard...)

I agree but thats where your bits box and greenstuff come in!!!

**nectarprime**

On that topic, your FLGS might have some old stock metals. I just went to a shop yesterday that had Chaos Chosen in metal, albeit just 5 infantry and the 5 command. I was very surprised to see these, as you cannot find them online anywhere.

So, might be worth a look in smaller stores if you're searching for old metals

**HAZZER**

Shame, all metal minis have now gone up in vaule! And there the harder to convertet ect!!!!!!!!!

**Sidstyler**

HAZZER wrote:
Shame, all metal minis have now gone up in vaule! And there the harder to convertet ect!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it sounds like people value good quality casts more than "ease of conversion."

**Selym**

Sidstyler wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
Shame, all metal minis have now gone up in vaule! And there the harder to convertet ect!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it sounds like people value good quality casts more than "ease of conversion."

Yup.

**ExNoctemNacimur**

I like the weight of metal models personally. Then again, whilst I love painting, I hardly have any painted stuff, so that could be another reason why.

**Yodhrin**

Sidstyler wrote:
Because there's always some donkey-cave who has to come out and say "All the models I got were fine so Finecast has no problems!"?

As opposed to someone who says "all the models I got were awful so Finecast was designed personally by Satan to be a curse on the wargaming community"? People in anecdotal glass houses shouldn't throw anecdotal stones.

**Consul Scipio**

Finecast being crap more often than other materials is not anecdotal...

There aren't topics on how bad plastics or metals are/were anywhere near the same amount as Finecast.

"My metal %insert item here% has a %insert issue here% what do I do?" A: "Call GW Customer Service they'll get you sorted." End of topic.

Finecast issues? They just goes on and on and on like a freaking evil Energizer Bunny.

**HAZZER**

All I have to say to that is 2 months 4 replacments GW CS went 'silent' for 3 weeks as I think they couldent be hasseled. Then ask me to send them back-so they go silent for 3 weeks takes 2 months for 4 still dogey relacements then want them back?!?!?! I just said that they were lost in the post (thats what they said to me after the 3 wek thing) and still wasent a good quailty cast. Thanks GW a bunch.

**BryllCream**

Amaya wrote:
I've hand minimal issues with Finecast and I don't know of anyone consistently having major problems with them.

This is another case of those with a complain being the vocal majority.

Same. Of about 4 people I know, including myself, we've had no issues with finecast. Sure they break too easy but other than that they're good models. And I can't be the only ones who remembers how crappy metal models could be.

**JWhex**

The fact that GW has stopped converting older metal models to finecast and the appearance of $25 plastic heralds that are merely infantry on 25 mm bases does suggest that GW may be phasing finecast out.

Finecasr will probably just fade away without much comment from GW.

**nectarprime**

Sidstyler wrote:
I've had nothing but issues, even with newer models released well past the first run. For example, the last model I purchased was a CSM dark apostle (and even then I was breaking my promise to not buy another Finecast model after the gakky DE lhamaean that I still have sitting in a blister), it was covered in holes, mainly on places you'd expect with Finecast, like his face, fingers, even the beads on that little necklace he's holding up, etc., and also had flimsy and malformed parts to boot (his staff had a spike on it that looked partially melted and I didn't expect his big spiky halo, which was a nightmare to try and clean without breaking, would last a trip in a carrying case to his first game), and it's only a few months old. I gave up on the model after cleaning all the parts and seeing all the work I had to do with it and gave it to my brother, who despite being a big Chaos fan, didn't want anything to do with it! Personally I think that's telling when you offer someone a brand-new model for free and they still don't want to deal with it. I kinda "made" him take it as I didn't feel like throwing it in the trash, which is where it would have gone if he hadn't.

It isn't "one or two pinhole-sized bubbles", either. The norm for Finecast, based solely on what I've seen at my local store and what I've experienced personally buying from them, are models literally covered in holes, not "pin-sized" at all and always in areas that ruin detail and require re-sculpting to fix. And the majority of stuff I saw being talked about and posted online wasn't much better, so I'd say it wasn't "blown out of proportion" at all, especially when we're almost approaching the two-year anniversary of Finecast's release and flawed models are still getting shipped out.

Good on you if you got what GW promised, but your experience is sadly not the norm.

Or, ya know, you could of had it replaced for free with a new one.

**Yodhrin**

Consul Scipio wrote:
Finecast being crap more often than other materials is not anecdotal...

There aren't topics on how bad plastics or metals are/were anywhere near the same amount as Finecast.

"My metal %insert item here% has a %insert issue here% what do I do?" A: "Call GW Customer Service they'll get you sorted." End of topic.

Finecast issues? They just goes on and on and on like a freaking evil Energizer Bunny.

Two problems. One, it actually is anecdotal, since we don't have access to the necessary data to form an empirical conclusion, and thus rely on accounts from individuals; that there is a preponderance of anecdotal evidence does not change its fundamental nature - the plural of anecdote is not data. Two, Sid specifically stated that he bases his opinion of Finecast exclusively on his own experiences, which, while perfectly valid is still absolutely anecdotal.

For instance, my own anecdotal experience is that the "failure rate" of Finecast is marginal, while every single metal kit I've ever purchased that wasn't a single solid lump was a complete bloody nightmare(and sometimes even when it was). The reason you don't see people complaining about metal to the same extent as Finecast is partly due to the QA issues and the material itself I have no doubt, but I suspect a substantial percentage of the increased dissatisfaction is simply because people have accepted the flaws which are part and parcel of metal miniatures. The pinning, the gap filling and hugely mismatched parts, the mould slippage, the "soft" detail if your cast happens to have been made towards the end of a mould's lifetime, the difficulty of converting, the paint chipping, the easy breakages - all of that is considered to be inherent to the material, so people who are willing to deal with that buy metal, and those who aren't avoid it like the plague. But "restic" is new, and so its problems are magnified and sometimes, intentionally or otherwise, exaggerated.

**jonolikespie**

BryllCream wrote:
Amaya wrote:
I've hand minimal issues with Finecast and I don't know of anyone consistently having major problems with them.

This is another case of those with a complain being the vocal majority.

Same. Of about 4 people I know, including myself, we've had no issues with finecast. Sure they break too easy but other than that they're good models. And I can't be the only ones who remembers how crappy metal models could be.

Your anecdotal evidence is just as invalid as ours. I only know people who think it is gak, you only know people who have no problem with it. It clearly has more issues than metal ever did but other than that we aren't really going to be able to get hard facts about it.
I would point out though that GWs line is 'one in ten and getting better'. I wouldn't believe that but even if it is true 1 in 10 is pretty miserable for a company like them.