Reasons to use Vanilla Codex

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**MajorStoffer**

I've been using vanilla marines for my Blood Ravens for a while; they're the fluffiest choice codex wise, but I must admit, I've had little success with them.

That being said, I don't have many of the "must take" units; a single drop pod, one squad of sternguard and an honour guard unit which dies constantly accomplishing nothing due to consistent piss-poor rolls on my part.

The codex is flexible and fun to build an army out of, but it's been left somewhat behind by the power creep of recent years.

**Crimson**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
This guy can replace all sergeants with Apothecaries

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/COMMANDER_CULLN_OF_THE_RED_SCORPIONS_.html

Ah! But you have to give up sergeants? No way!

**Chancetragedy**

The reason I like C:SM is because it has very few holes. Show me a problem and the codex probably has an answer. It doesn't do any 1 thing the best but it does everything well. So piloted by a good general can be awesome. Allies help but are in no way a necessity. And frankly I have been having much more luck with a pure C:SM army. There are plenty of reasons to use the dex. My top likes atm are Vulkan, attack bikes, thunderfire, sternguard, tactical marines(what?!), and darnath bad mama jama Lysander.

I feel in a TAC environment it can accel because of its versatility. 6th was nice to this codex.

**Sabreguy**

/rant

Omg BA are not bad you just need to find a tactic that works for you and is adaptable even BT can do well with skill and the right choices you just may not have thought of it yet. And I'd liked to see you all saying BA codex is bad when they're codex comes out this year or early next year. If not I'll be going around butt kicking with my nods codex which will get a new codex as well.

/rant off

**Pony_law**

I'd echo many of the things people have said in this thread that make playing vanilla marines great. They have great units, can do anything through list design, have some really competative choices ect.

For me though, I love playing vanilla marines because it is so satisfying playing an army people generally think is just ok and showing them how powerful it really can be.

**tvih**

C:SM is indeed nicely versatile, it allowing a lot of different playstyles is why I find it good. Also despite being written by Ward it's in no way over the top at least now in 6th Edition as far as tabletop performance goes. Compared to my main codex, BT, the variety found within is quite stellar.

However BA does still have one thing I'd really like - assault marines as troops. I do own two boxes of Death Company and a DC Dread, so there's the option of using allies (not that I couldn't just use BT assault marines as BA ones) where the DC would get fielded as regular assault marines most of the time - though that'd cut me off from using IG and such.

**ZebioLizard2**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
This guy can replace all sergeants with Apothecaries

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/COMMANDER_CULLN_OF_THE_RED_SCORPIONS_.html

In Tactical Squads

I know, I had that mistake too.

**Vombat**

juraigamer wrote:
Reasons to play vanilla marines?

Thunder Fire Cannons, they kill stuff dead
TH/SS termaintors, because they kill stuff dead and hang around to do so
Null Zone librarians, because invulnerable saves are overrated
Chaplin Cassius, a cheap toughness 6 chaplin with a combi flamer? Say yes
Conversion Beamers, small blast railguns are fun
Honor Guard, they have power weapons, billions of attacks, and a 2+ armor save
Ironclad Dreadnoughts, because av 13 in your face is always hard to kill
The ability to take marine bikes as troops
Combat tactics, because being tactical is more than just a combat strategy
Army changing special characters
Good scout troops
Drop pods that hold 2 more than anyone elses

Just want to add some stuff to the list:
Land raider takes 12 passangers.
Vulcan, best TH/SS termies for 40p + all the melta and flamer love
Scout bikers and scout speeders.

On the other hand the Vanilla codex got some drawbacks too.
Overpriced Devastators.
Defferent pricing on upgrades for Landspeeders, Predators and Dreads compared to DA (some lower but most higher)
Despite the name, very untactical scoring units.

**Crimson**

CrowSplat wrote:

I mean you can go army wide fnp... ic apothecary for fnp on whatever squad you want.

I bring this up again as I want to be absolutely sure. These refer to the same thing, Culln's ability to replace sergeants with apotecharies, right? There is actually no option to get BA style independent apotecharies in any FW book?

I ask, because that is the one thing I really envy BA for. I'd love to be able to equip my apotecharies and put them where I want. (I still hope that one day they get rid of combat squads altogether and give us back 2e style independent specialists.)

**ZebioLizard2**

Crimson wrote:
CrowSplat wrote:

I mean you can go army wide fnp... ic apothecary for fnp on whatever squad you want.

I bring this up again as I want to be absolutely sure. These refer to the same thing, Culln's ability to replace sergeants with apotecharies, right? There is actually no option to get BA style independent apotecharies in any FW book?

I ask, because that is the one thing I really envy BA for. I'd love to be able to equip my apotecharies and put them where I want. (I still hope that one day they get rid of combat squads altogether and give us back 2e style independent specialists.)

As I mentioned a few posts up that it's only for Tactical Squads only.

**CrowSplat**

Crimson wrote:
CrowSplat wrote:

I mean you can go army wide fnp... ic apothecary for fnp on whatever squad you want.

I bring this up again as I want to be absolutely sure. These refer to the same thing, Culln's ability to replace sergeants with apotecharies, right? There is actually no option to get BA style independent apotecharies in any FW book?

I ask, because that is the one thing I really envy BA for. I'd love to be able to equip my apotecharies and put them where I want. (I still hope that one day they get rid of combat squads altogether and give us back 2e style independent specialists.)

No they are not the same thing. There is a salamanders character that is an apothecary. His rules are even downloadable so no need to buy a book.

Google Harath Shen and you should get a link to download the pdf.

So for all of you who wanted th/ss terminators with fnp, you're welcome.

Also note that he has combat tactics so if you want to take say, Tyberus as well, then Shen also has furious charge too.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Vombat wrote:

Vulcan, best TH/SS termies for 40p + all the melta and flamer love

Second best 40-point Assault Terminators actually, but yes, Vulkan's pretty good.

**Tiger9gamer**

more postering for the First legion!

you can take small, 5 man units with special weapons rather than needing a full 10 man. Same with heavy weapons (my favorite build is 5 marines w/ plasma rifle and combi-plasma in a lascannon razorback)

LRC's are still transport 16, and the TH/SS Deathwing are reasonably priced for what they do. Also, the Deathwing knights are a blast to use!

**Lobokai**

CrowSplat wrote:
Crimson wrote:
CrowSplat wrote:

I mean you can go army wide fnp... ic apothecary for fnp on whatever squad you want.

I bring this up again as I want to be absolutely sure. These refer to the same thing, Culln's ability to replace sergeants with apotecharies, right? There is actually no option to get BA style independent apotecharies in any FW book?

I ask, because that is the one thing I really envy BA for. I'd love to be able to equip my apotecharies and put them where I want. (I still hope that one day they get rid of combat squads altogether and give us back 2e style independent specialists.)

No they are not the same thing. There is a salamanders character that is an apothecary. His rules are even downloadable so no need to buy a book.

Google Harath Shen and you should get a link to download the pdf.

So for all of you who wanted th/ss terminators with fnp, you're welcome.

Also note that he has combat tactics so if you want to take say, Tyberus as well, then Shen also has furious charge too.

Shen's not army wide, its one squad, just like any other Apothecary

**CrowSplat**

Lobukia wrote:
CrowSplat wrote:
Crimson wrote:
CrowSplat wrote:

I mean you can go army wide fnp... ic apothecary for fnp on whatever squad you want.

I bring this up again as I want to be absolutely sure. These refer to the same thing, Culln's ability to replace sergeants with apotecharies, right? There is actually no option to get BA style independent apotecharies in any FW book?

I ask, because that is the one thing I really envy BA for. I'd love to be able to equip my apotecharies and put them where I want. (I still hope that one day they get rid of combat squads altogether and give us back 2e style independent specialists.)

No they are not the same thing. There is a salamanders character that is an apothecary. His rules are even downloadable so no need to buy a book.

Google Harath Shen and you should get a link to download the pdf.

So for all of you who wanted th/ss terminators with fnp, you're welcome.

Also note that he has combat tactics so if you want to take say, Tyberus as well, then Shen also has furious charge too.

Shen's not army wide, its one squad, just like any other Apothecary

Exactly. That's why I said they were NOT the same thing which is what Crimson asked.

However you could combine Culln and Shen for fnp tactical and one additional fnp squad of your choosing.

**Crimson**

CrowSplat wrote:

No they are not the same thing. There is a salamanders character that is an apothecary. His rules are even downloadable so no need to buy a book.

Google Harath Shen and you should get a link to download the pdf.

So for all of you who wanted th/ss terminators with fnp, you're welcome.

Oh wow! Thank you, good sir!

That is pretty damn expensive apotechary, but still certainly a nice option to have.

From what book he is originally?

**CrowSplat**

AFAIK he's not in an actual book. His rules did come out at the same time as IA 9 and 10 so he is generally grouped in with those characters.

**ace101**

I love to use my librarian in 6th edition, but i don't generally use the codex powers anymore, gotta love biomancy...

TH/SS termies are awesome, and the synergy of ATSKNF and CT makes marines tough to kill unless you have I5 cc beasts (outside of I4 w/ MoS stuff idk), the generic librarians are cool (except you cant make a generic Chief Librarian which is lvl 3 libby), combined with the 6th edition biomancy & TDA they are murderers. Null zone is mostly situational like facing a bunch of terminators/daemons/ICs, which the range of which means you need to be in cc to be optimally effective. unless in TDA, libbies in cc don't generally stand a chance against daemons/terminators.

**Vombat**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Vombat wrote:

Vulcan, best TH/SS termies for 40p + all the melta and flamer love

Second best 40-point Assault Terminators actually, but yes, Vulkan's pretty good.

Second best?

With Vulcan your 40p TH/SS Termies get mastercrafted hammers basicly for free. Whos the best?
Raven guard Termies with fleet and infiltrate.
Blood Angels can get furious charge, FNP but costs +5p.
Grey Knights dont get storm shield but a nice force weapon hammer, banner and hammerhand.
Dark Angels are fearless and can mix weapons but costs +9p.
Chaos are abit special...
Black templars can be quick on foot, if someone shoots them.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Vombat wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Vombat wrote:

Vulcan, best TH/SS termies for 40p + all the melta and flamer love

Second best 40-point Assault Terminators actually, but yes, Vulkan's pretty good.

Second best?

With Vulcan your 40p TH/SS Termies get mastercrafted hammers basicly for free. Whos the best?
Raven guard Termies with fleet and infiltrate.
Blood Angels can get furious charge, FNP but costs +5p.
Grey Knights dont get storm shield but a nice force weapon hammer, banner and hammerhand.
Dark Angels are fearless and can mix weapons but costs +9p.
Chaos are abit special...
Black templars can be quick on foot, if someone shoots them.

Templars get Rage. I guess it's a tossup, but I'd rather have Rage than MC Hammer.