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Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
IG Armored Battlegroup is the best army by far. The only relevant standard for "best" is how many awesome tanks you can put on the table, therefore the ABG wins. You can bring nothing but Leman Russes/aircraft/etc and don't have to waste any points on silly little infantry models.

Second place goes to the Elysain Drop Troops list. Valkyries and other aircraft are cool, but it really suffers from a lack of tanks.

Back in 5th edition the Elysian list struck me as deceptively good, since literally everything in it could deepstrike, including special weapons squads (70 points for a three melta deepstriking unit with a small footprint, of which you could take three per infantry platoon) and drop sentinels as elites/part of an infantry platoon (three av10 multimeltas showing up anywhere for the cost of a basic leman russ), since vehicles were much tougher in 5th and all that melta would turn them into a bad joke. It seems like 6th has brought a greater emphasis back to infantry, when it's not on flyers, so I'm not sure how it would fare today. At least without spamming vendettas, vultures, and valkyries/sky talons, in that order as points allow. Which would be rather scummy, not to mention ridiculously expensive model-wise.

Looks Hella Cool though!

dudes... the WAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!! is the best. Just run Nob Bikers with Dakka Jets and some BW's. It will give anyone a hard time

 Peregrine wrote:
IG Armored Battlegroup is the best army by far. The only relevant standard for "best" is how many awesome tanks you can put on the table, therefore the ABG wins. You can bring nothing but Leman Russes/aircraft/etc and don't have to waste any points on silly little infantry models.

Second place goes to the Elysain Drop Troops list. Valkyries and other aircraft are cool, but it really suffers from a lack of tanks.

Back in 5th edition the Elysian list struck me as deceptively good, since literally everything in it could deepstrike, including special weapons squads (70 points for a three melta deepstriking unit with a small footprint, of which you could take three per infantry platoon) and drop sentinels as elites/part of an infantry platoon (three av10 multimeltas showing up anywhere for the cost of a basic leman russ), since vehicles were much tougher in 5th and all that melta would turn them into a bad joke. It seems like 6th has brought a greater emphasis back to infantry, when it's not on flyers, so I'm not sure how it would fare today. At least without spamming vendettas, vultures, and valkyries/sky talons, in that order as points allow. Which would be rather scummy, not to mention ridiculously expensive model-wise.

 SnaleKing wrote:
Ask any daemon player, everything deepstriking is not necessarily a good thing.

I was a daemon player back before the 5th ed Dark Eldar came out. That and vanilla guard (at the time I played exclusively on vassal40k, the dark eldar models convinced me to start tabletop).

Note that I said everything "could" deepstrike, noting specifically units that are rather rubbish in vanilla guard because they'll never get close enough to their targets to do anything.

As a further "useless things that become hilarious because elysians can deepstrike them": cyclops demolition vehicles. They won't win games, but deepstriking a remote control battlecannon shot that doesn't halve its strength against vehicles touched by the template is such a trollerific move they almost justify their points cost.

Deepstriking Cyclopses are funny, especially when you leave the controller in the Valk. He just shoves the little deathroller out and it goes boom! Hehe.

Nah, the best army in 6th edition is Sisters of Battle, hands down. We have a miniature White Dwarf codex, no viable Elites units, a single Troops Choice... and an unkillable, highly mobile assassin of an HQ choice in Celestine, a shotgun-wielding psycho who laughs at challenges in Jacobus (you challenge him, he laughs at you and his retinue gimps you), insane deep striking and outflanking melta and flamer possibilities, Predators with S8 AP1 guns that shoot three times a turn on average, squads of four rending heavy bolters for less than the average tactical squad, and a flier that is everything the Nephilim wanted to be but failed at. ^^

SM. especially now with better fliers. Jack of all trades and master of some.

James811 wrote:
Hey guys. Just wondered what ya'll think the best overal army is in 40k?

Might as well ask what the best color is, best food, best strip joint, best car......

The one i happen to be wearing/ be eating/ be in at the time, of course.

The rest of the human race is just there to validate my opinion, or be ignored as incorrect

(kidding, mostly...)

I would argue the IG. Just about the only thing they can't do on their own better than just about everyone else is assault (which you generally don't want to do in 6th edition anyway).

And then they become good at it anyway by allying in some marines to make blobs incredible again.

Purely from a tournament winning perspective, you'll generally find that Grey Knights and Space Wolves are consistently found in the top 3 of pretty much any and all tournaments.

This doesn't necessarily make them the best 2 armies though, because it's likely down to them being over-represented with a vast percentage of people choosing to field them, and not as many people choosing to play Eldar or Orks for example. Statistically if more people play the army, it's more likely that one or two of them are good players and will go further in the tournament.

It's also commonly accepted that Tony Kopach is among the best (if not the best) player in the world right now, and he plays Space Wolves, so his success may have more than a little something to do with all of the Space Wolf lists you see out there. You can probably credit Blackmoor with doing the same for Grey Knights.

Long story short, there's no 'best' army. As with most things, people will try to emulate the success of others, and while immitation is the highest form flattery, it doesn't guarantee you success. Not by a long shot. There's no substitute for player skill and experience.

reaper with no name wrote:
I would argue the IG. Just about the only thing they can't do on their own better than just about everyone else is assault (which you generally don't want to do in 6th edition anyway).

And then they become good at it anyway by allying in some marines to make blobs incredible again.

The IG could actually be pretty good in melee in 5th, with 20-30 man blobs with power fist commissars and power sword sergeants. The DKoK could do it even better, since they had WS4 and could take power fists on sergeants (with a ridiculous amount of cheap, long range artillery pieces from both elite and heavy support slots (in addition to cheaper(stationary) versions of the normal guard artillery, and access to leman russes)).

Jokaero and I am not joking.

Step 1: Play a 6000pts Apocalypse game.
Step 2: Field Inquisitor Cortez as HQ and 163 Jokaero.
Step 3: Take a picture of your opponents face when he realizes you have 163 Lascannons/Multi-meltas/Heavy flamers.
Step 4: ????
Step 5: Profit!.
Step 6: Die a horrible death i nthe hands of your opponent that could satisfy Khorne for centuries. Could.

In a 6,000 point apoc game, your opponent could field two warhounds and a reaver and still have 3,050 points left over to bring enough guard to wipe you on their own (assuming your opponent isn't specifically tailoring their list to your jokaero, and is just bringing a solid general list). Either half should be enough to wipe you. If the titans were sitting on the board with your full force getting a free turn of shooting, you could probably wipe them out, but set them in reserve and they'll tear apart most of your army the turn they come on, and of course you have all those infantry, concealed artillery pieces, and potentially aircraft to worry about too, since 3,050 buys a whole lot of conventional units.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
In a 6,000 point apoc game, your opponent could field two warhounds and a reaver and still have 3,050 points left over to bring enough guard to wipe you on their own (assuming your opponent isn't specifically tailoring their list to your jokaero, and is just bringing a solid general list). Either half should be enough to wipe you. If the titans were sitting on the board with your full force getting a free turn of shooting, you could probably wipe them out, but set them in reserve and they'll tear apart most of your army the turn they come on, and of course you have all those infantry, concealed artillery pieces, and potentially aircraft to worry about too, since 3,050 buys a whole lot of conventional units.

I know that , still - 163 Lascannons.... he can fire just 10 of them and he has a good chance in ruining the TItan. And if those 10 fail he can fire 10 more then 10 more...
All hat he needs is range, after that it's game over.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

reaper with no name wrote:
I would argue the IG. Just about the only thing they can't do on their own better than just about everyone else is assault (which you generally don't want to do in 6th edition anyway).

And then they become good at it anyway by allying in some marines to make blobs incredible again.

The IG could actually be pretty good in melee in 5th, with 20-30 man blobs with power fist commissars and power sword sergeants. The DKoK could do it even better, since they had WS4 and could take power fists on sergeants (with a ridiculous amount of cheap, long range artillery pieces from both elite and heavy support slots (in addition to cheaper(stationary) versions of the normal guard artillery, and access to leman russes)).

Yes, they were. But 6th nerfed pure blobs a lot.

Then again, it also introduced allied blobs, which easily make up the difference.

What's a jokaero's BS? Since you need about three (six for the reaver) hits just to get a chance to hit the titan itself, and then you're up against av14, at which point only one third of hits will do anything, and only half of those will pen (what are the changes to the superheavy stuff with 6th?). And there'd still be a hail of large blasts from untargetable artillery pieces, and a swarm of infantry marching across the board.

The titans would also be reserved, so they're always going to get the first word against the jokaero (8 sD large blasts, an s7 apoc barrage(5), and either 6 more sD large blasts or 12 s8 large blasts; enough to wipe out everything on a very large portion of board (somewhere in the general vicinity of 400 square inches, isn't it?)). And that's from less than half the point total...

This really makes me want to return to the scratchbuilt warhound I was working on a while back, especially as I'm convinced I have the resources and ability to actually make it not suck now...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

reaper with no name wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

reaper with no name wrote:
I would argue the IG. Just about the only thing they can't do on their own better than just about everyone else is assault (which you generally don't want to do in 6th edition anyway).

And then they become good at it anyway by allying in some marines to make blobs incredible again.

The IG could actually be pretty good in melee in 5th, with 20-30 man blobs with power fist commissars and power sword sergeants. The DKoK could do it even better, since they had WS4 and could take power fists on sergeants (with a ridiculous amount of cheap, long range artillery pieces from both elite and heavy support slots (in addition to cheaper(stationary) versions of the normal guard artillery, and access to leman russes)).

Yes, they were. But 6th nerfed pure blobs a lot.

Then again, it also introduced allied blobs, which easily make up the difference.

6th also nerfed power swords (slightly), to the benefit of only a few units who were already almost invulnerable anyways.

 Peregrine wrote:
IG Armored Battlegroup is the best army by far. The only relevant standard for "best" is how many awesome tanks you can put on the table, therefore the ABG wins. You can bring nothing but Leman Russes/aircraft/etc and don't have to waste any points on silly little infantry models.

Second place goes to the Elysain Drop Troops list. Valkyries and other aircraft are cool, but it really suffers from a lack of tanks.

You really have no clue. TERMINATORS FTW!!!!!!! Putting massive models that simply punk everything that is where it is at.

He is

They're called TANKS

Of course a Looted IG armoured Battlegroup is cooler yet

From a realistic perspective, I think Necrons are actually best most solid army currently.

No army is as well built to the fundamentals of 6th edition as Necrons are. Between HP's, Snapshots, Flyers, Nightfight and Character rules, they're better adapted to it than anyone else.

When it comes to HP's, Necrons either get AV13 shields to mitigate or eliminate HP loss through mid-strength weaponry, or are flyers hit only on 6's, and their basic transport gets an extra HP just because Then of course there's the whole Gauss thing that allows them to engage any vehicle and glance it to death.

Snapshots also are something Necrons can deal with wonderfully thanks to Tesla weapons. A snapfiring BS1 Tesla weapon is functionally putting out damage equivalent to a BS3 non-tesla weapon. A *twin linked* Tesla Weapon, while Snapfiring at BS1, is roughly on par with a *BS8* non-tesla weapon in terms of average hit output, since each hit, while having a much lower chance of occurring, triples itself.

Necrons have some great flyers and are able to field them in greater quantity than any other army, and their flyer transport has a wonderful special rule that negates the biggest issue with being a flyer transport (destruction and passengers)

Nightfight is now huge, occurring every game, and no army can manipulate it or keep it going like Necrons can between Cryptek's and the Stormlord.

They're also able to utilize a lot of the new character stuff, with lots of fiddly mechanics/wargear that benefit greatly from stuff like getting to allocate 6's to hit and the like.

On top of that, most of their CC units work as well or better compared with 5th, generally not relying on transports, outflanking, or otherwise assaulting from methods now no longer possible in 6th, and having longer average charge distances now.

Yeah, Orks because Orks never loose.

 captain collius wrote:
You really have no clue. TERMINATORS FTW!!!!!!! Putting massive models that simply punk everything that is where it is at.

You mean massive models that just have enough time to scream "OH " as a Medusa drives around the corner and turns the entire squad into a bloody puddle. Tanks >>>>>>>>> terminators.

Ultramarines are BAMFs yo!

Go True Blue!

Orks, what they believe happens and how many times they say "We iz da best!"

 Peregrine wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
You really have no clue. TERMINATORS FTW!!!!!!! Putting massive models that simply punk everything that is where it is at.

You mean massive models that just have enough time to scream "OH " as a Medusa drives around the corner and turns the entire squad into a bloody puddle. Tanks >>>>>>>>> terminators.

Doesn't happen that way generally its there is a medusa. oh look i arrived right beside it goodbye medusa.

But it is all opinion.

 captain collius wrote:
Doesn't happen that way generally its there is a medusa. oh look i arrived right beside it goodbye medusa.

Oh look it's Medusas #2-6. Because that's the first rule of the Imperial Guard, why bring one tank when you can bring a dozen tanks?

Also, too bad you can't assault out of deep strike and the Medusa is surrounded by a few hundred guardsmen filling up the IG player's entire deployment zone and leaving no place for terminators to arrive. Because that's the second rule of the Imperial Guard, we can bring a dozen tanks and still have so many infantry that you can never kill them all.

 Peregrine wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Doesn't happen that way generally its there is a medusa. oh look i arrived right beside it goodbye medusa.

Oh look it's Medusas #2-6. Because that's the first rule of the Imperial Guard, why bring one tank when you can bring a dozen tanks?

Also, too bad you can't assault out of deep strike and the Medusa is surrounded by a few hundred guardsmen filling up the IG player's entire deployment zone and leaving no place for terminators to arrive. Because that's the second rule of the Imperial Guard, we can bring a dozen tanks and still have so many infantry that you can never kill them all.

It's okay dude believe me it never happens that way.

Ooh, Terminators! How cute!

BS4 48" S8 AP1 Heavy D6. Bai bai!