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Garukadon wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
It's a shame that the nephilim is a fast attack, making it compete with black knights and dark shrouds, if it was heavy or elite, I could easily see it having a place in pure ravenwing armies as a way to effectively deal with light and medium armour without having to take plasma and thus kill your expensive as feth troops.

I agree. I want to squeeze in 1 or 2 more fast attack choices, and really nothing from the heavy choices.

Not even the Vengences?


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 Lobukia wrote:

 Deathclad wrote:
the point of this post is to determine whether the DT or NJ is better not argue rules.

Yet you choose to argue rules. Welcome to the internet, where (believe it or not) forum threads can head to related (and even unrelated) topics at the whim of the masses.

BTW, Good to know that they don't stack... this affects the synergy of the flier in question, so the rule discussion is completely relevant to the issue at hand.

I like the NJ better, but I'm going to be the lemming on this one and say the correct answer is "neither" and spend my DA points elsewhere.

My apologize im not trying to be a Pain and i know that this rules argument was directly related to the subject but i believe we have already said all that has to be said on that matter so thats why i was trying to move the discussion back to the topic at hand.

Vengence Vs Darkshroud could be a thread all on its own. But Let me take a shot at this:

I'm a heavy support guy, I like my Devestator squads. For the same cost as the Vengence, I can take a 4 man devestator squad with 4 plasma cannons. Or for the same points take missiles and have more versatility, then for another 40 points I can give them flak missiles. So points wise its just not there. Also for a similar points cost you could get 2 Landspeeder Typoons

Unless you are making a fluffy Ravenwing list, but even then I think your points are better spent on the Darkshroud to improve the Jink saves of your bikes and Landspeeders.

Edit:

Just double checked my points, The 4 plasma cannon 5 man devastator squad is cheaper then the Vengeance by 10 points. and you get 1 additional template.and the two typhoons would be 150

 Deathclad wrote:

Garukadon wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
It's a shame that the nephilim is a fast attack, making it compete with black knights and dark shrouds, if it was heavy or elite, I could easily see it having a place in pure ravenwing armies as a way to effectively deal with light and medium armour without having to take plasma and thus kill your expensive as feth troops.

I agree. I want to squeeze in 1 or 2 more fast attack choices, and really nothing from the heavy choices.

Not even the Vengences?

The Vengence is a terrible unit, it has either a large blast plasma cannon or a heavy 3 plasma gun and is only AV10 with HP2
Sure it can deep strike, but I could just as easily have a vindicator for similar points cost, and that has both a sturdier frame and superior weapon.

Most army lists feel that way about Elites...

I dont personally have any yet but i want a dark talon the rift cannon is pretty cool and it looks awesome.

Where is the option for IG allies with flyer? Not too many more points, and you gain a scoring unit and get a far superior aircraft.


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If this was a poll as to which looks cooler, then I would vote with the current options, but as they are in the codex, neither is worth fielding.

 captain collius wrote:

Mythantor wrote:
Dark talon is better, 20 points cheaper and has a number of great utility weapons.

Still overpriced but better than the nephilim

Sorry it is cheaper but the Nephilim is useful against a greater range of targets than the dark talon as the talon can't punch through armor. The nephilim can murder light armor and engage medium with number of shots.

Only target Nephilim is really good against is light vehicles and its not like a DA list won't have enough plasma kicking around to deal with that.

The Dark Talon is effective against mobs with its twin Hurricane bolters and the blind on its rift cannon is great for messing with enemy heavy weapons. + the stasis bomb is hilarious for dropping opn anything init 3 or lower and completely denying them the ability to fight in CC

For the points and having to come in from reserve these things are not worth the paper they were printed on. For the newest codex GW should be ashamed of how bad they botched such cool models. Serious nerfs to other flyers are needed to bring these things back from the dead or some FAQ love.