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Which is better. Dark Talon or Nephilim Jetfighter
Dark Talon
Nephilim Jetfighter

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Opportunist




Spokane Washington

So which on of the Dark Angel Flyers is better for a fell rounded Tactical Roll?

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Leader of the Sept







In my view the Dark Talon is a dedicated support platform. It doesn't do that much dmage itself, but it has a couple of hefty debuffs that work to the benefit of other squads. To me this means that it is not an all-round tactical fighter. The Nephilim is reasonable at anti-flyer with TLLC and has the Strafing Run rule making it an excellent ground attack craft. Sure its not as effective as Vendettas, but then nothing else is really

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Nephilim all the way.

7 str 6 ap 4 shots and 3 tl str 5 ap 4 shots. shooting at ground targets on a 2+.

Its never been on the field at the same time as an enemy flier so I don't know how well it works for anti-air but for ground attack it can be devastating.

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I really like my Nephilim. I know theres a lot of hate on them, but I do enjoy fielding it. Its definitely not an air superiority fighter like the fluff says. Its more of a ground attack craft. Let it rake across big units with 7 S7 AP4 hits and 3 S5 AP4 hits and watch everything short of Teq fall to weight of fire. And against anything short of AV12 its good too.

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Nephilim vs Dark Talon?

CRIPPLE FIGHT!

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Spokane Washington

 Chumbalaya wrote:
Nephilim vs Dark Talon?

CRIPPLE FIGHT!


Why do you say that?

Iron and Gold, Glory and Coin

RHAKAN BAKAR!!!
YANAD DU'RE-NU

and finally

We existed before the Imperium. and we will exist long after. Our houses may have past into legend. but a knightly High King does not bow before any man. beast. spawn of dark gods. or a corpse upon a throne

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 Deathclad wrote:
 Chumbalaya wrote:
Nephilim vs Dark Talon?

CRIPPLE FIGHT!


Why do you say that?


They're both awful, which ever one you choose, it'll still be weaker than other codex options. Although the metaphor is rather distasteful, I still chuckled.


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Well, rules-wise the Nephilim is far from awful. A decent ground attacker/air superiority fighter at best.

Problem is, the thing IS expensive. For 180 points base, I'd expect something more than the Space Marine version of a slightly upgraded Dakkajet.



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Opportunist




Spokane Washington

Well IMHO i think the Dark Talon is a Great Buffer Unit along with the Dark Shroud for a unit 0f 6 to 9 Black Knights because of the Rift Cannon and the Stasis bomb.

With 9 Black Knights thats 3 gernade launchers for a total of 3 rad shels a round. and with the stasis bomb and the rift cannon the Black Knights with be striking (lest say a unit of Space Marines) a T1 WS1 I1 Unit and if the Option is need you can Blind them as well(though i dont know why seeing as how they will already be at I1) and then the Dark shroud will give them a cover of +2 any turn they Turbo Boost.

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YANAD DU'RE-NU

and finally

We existed before the Imperium. and we will exist long after. Our houses may have past into legend. but a knightly High King does not bow before any man. beast. spawn of dark gods. or a corpse upon a throne

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Earth

T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

I go for the nephilim, I love to strafe side armour and when I rarely use the las to snipe at bigger tanks, it's all fun
   
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Spokane Washington

 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

I go for the nephilim, I love to strafe side armour and when I rarely use the las to snipe at bigger tanks, it's all fun
There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.

Iron and Gold, Glory and Coin

RHAKAN BAKAR!!!
YANAD DU'RE-NU

and finally

We existed before the Imperium. and we will exist long after. Our houses may have past into legend. but a knightly High King does not bow before any man. beast. spawn of dark gods. or a corpse upon a throne

Freeblades. Conclave of the Lost Kings
Onixia Crusade
The Clocktowers Finest
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Cygnar small force all painted
Rhul: Painted 14/3
 
   
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Peoria IL

 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

I go for the nephilim, I love to strafe side armour and when I rarely use the las to snipe at bigger tanks, it's all fun


Just curious, why wouldn't they stack?

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 Deathclad wrote:
There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.


Yeah I'm not seeing that either, just that the bomb replaces the WS debuff from the grenades.

Between the two I've mostly just run the Nephilim with the Avenger. The Las might be better for armor hunting but in the games I've used it it's been useful for trimming Nurgle foot sloggers. I want to try the Dark Talon, but well rounded it doesn't appear to be.
   
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I made my Dark Angels flyer into a Nephilim Jetfighter with TL Lascannon. I want to switch it out for the Avenger bolter gun. Have not used it in a game yet, so we'll see after some games.

   
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Paso Robles, CA, USA

Deathclad wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.


lobukia wrote:

Just curious, why wouldn't they stack?


DA Codex p. 61:

Every model in a unit hit by one or more rad shells suffers a -1 penalty to their Toughness until the end of the turn...


Emphasis mine. Rad doesn't stack.

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Well I faced a situation monday night that showed me that our DA did not get the love that the other flyers get. First off, storm raven is by far a better all around flyer then both the nephilim and DT, all the versions of the ork flyers are well just fun,but aside from that....The necron flyers much better for points cost, both. The razorwing and void raven also much better. Even the flying toaster seems to be better, points for points but the icing on the cake is the hell drake, oh boy. Read the rules for vector strike and then find out it can still shoot its 1 weapon, let me re-iterate, 1 WEAPON in the shooting phase because it is exempt from that rule because flyers can shoot up to 4 weapons at regular BS but it only has one, apparently different because it is a meteoric stike. Read vctor strike in the BRB(Rant over)

Now that said, I still take the nephilim, it is fun. Doesn't really get to do much but does draw fire away from other units. It looks great zooming around the field also.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/20 08:22:40


 
   
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Yeah I think the Nephilim is definitely not the best flyer, load out and points wise. They got a ton of other good stuff in the codex though, so you can't have everything.

Still gonna take it in my lists. Looks cool and looks like it will do alright.
   
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Between

The Nephilim is just an Avenger with less guns, less armour, and a nerfed Avenger Bolt Cannon / Megabolter... for a third again the price and BS4.



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Earth

 Deathclad wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

I go for the nephilim, I love to strafe side armour and when I rarely use the las to snipe at bigger tanks, it's all fun
There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.



Hahahahha....hahahahha, well we're in for a shocker here my apparently angry and rude friend, page 61 quite explicitly states that they dont stack,
The same page that says if hit by "one or MORE"

I suggest politely that you read your codex more carefully in future before trying to shout someone down.
   
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Spokane Washington

 Ozymandias wrote:
Deathclad wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.


lobukia wrote:

Just curious, why wouldn't they stack?


DA Codex p. 61:

Every model in a unit hit by one or more rad shells suffers a -1 penalty to their Toughness until the end of the turn...


Emphasis mine. Rad doesn't stack.


But if you have nultiple rad shells the effects could still stack it says they take -1 until the end of the turn but it doesn't say that they cant be effected my more then one shell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
 Deathclad wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

I go for the nephilim, I love to strafe side armour and when I rarely use the las to snipe at bigger tanks, it's all fun
There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.



Hahahahha....hahahahha, well we're in for a shocker here my apparently angry and rude friend, page 61 quite explicitly states that they dont stack,
The same page that says if hit by "one or MORE"

I suggest politely that you read your codex more carefully in future before trying to shout someone down.


I wasnt Angry i was trying to throw emphasis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/20 15:47:00


Iron and Gold, Glory and Coin

RHAKAN BAKAR!!!
YANAD DU'RE-NU

and finally

We existed before the Imperium. and we will exist long after. Our houses may have past into legend. but a knightly High King does not bow before any man. beast. spawn of dark gods. or a corpse upon a throne

Freeblades. Conclave of the Lost Kings
Onixia Crusade
The Clocktowers Finest
Custom chapter. Sarmatian Knights
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Rhul: Painted 14/3
 
   
Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





 Deathclad wrote:
 Ozymandias wrote:
Deathclad wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
T1?? Rad grenades do not stack, if.they did it would be awesome.

There is NO WHERE in the Codex that it says they don't Stack
and neither Does the FAQS.


lobukia wrote:

Just curious, why wouldn't they stack?


DA Codex p. 61:

Every model in a unit hit by one or more rad shells suffers a -1 penalty to their Toughness until the end of the turn...


Emphasis mine. Rad doesn't stack.


But if you have nultiple rad shells the effects could still stack it says they take -1 until the end of the turn but it doesn't say that they cant be effected my more then one shell.


Its pretty specific its says quite clearly that the effect or "1 OR MORE" Rad shells is -1 toughness so the effect of getting hit by any number of rad shells is just -1 toughness
   
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Spokane Washington

the point of this post is to determine whether the DT or NJ is better not argue rules.

Iron and Gold, Glory and Coin

RHAKAN BAKAR!!!
YANAD DU'RE-NU

and finally

We existed before the Imperium. and we will exist long after. Our houses may have past into legend. but a knightly High King does not bow before any man. beast. spawn of dark gods. or a corpse upon a throne

Freeblades. Conclave of the Lost Kings
Onixia Crusade
The Clocktowers Finest
Custom chapter. Sarmatian Knights
Cygnar small force all painted
Rhul: Painted 14/3
 
   
Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





Dark talon is better, 20 points cheaper and has a number of great utility weapons.

Still overpriced but better than the nephilim
   
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Mythantor wrote:
Dark talon is better, 20 points cheaper and has a number of great utility weapons.

Still overpriced but better than the nephilim


Sorry it is cheaper but the Nephilim is useful against a greater range of targets than the dark talon as the talon can't punch through armor. The nephilim can murder light armor and engage medium with number of shots.

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Central Pennsylvania

I'm late to this discussion, so I'm just basically tacking on what most have said.

Nephilim is the much better flyer. Dark Talon requires too much synergy in an army that doesn't have the models to enforce synergy (like say Eldar).

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Peoria IL

 Deathclad wrote:
the point of this post is to determine whether the DT or NJ is better not argue rules.


Yet you choose to argue rules. Welcome to the internet, where (believe it or not) forum threads can head to related (and even unrelated) topics at the whim of the masses.

BTW, Good to know that they don't stack... this affects the synergy of the flier in question, so the rule discussion is completely relevant to the issue at hand.

I like the NJ better, but I'm going to be the lemming on this one and say the correct answer is "neither" and spend my DA points elsewhere.

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Earth

The only reason I would use a dark talon, is along side a unit of ravenwing knights, dropping the stasis bomb then hitting them with a rad grenade, and finally assaulting, the 8 man unit I use can pretty much eat anything in the game
   
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The only reason I'd ever use either of them is if my girl friend gave me one as a misguided gift and for some reason decided to watch me play.

Other than that, I'd ignore both of them and bring a Vendetta.


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It's a shame that the nephilim is a fast attack, making it compete with black knights and dark shrouds, if it was heavy or elite, I could easily see it having a place in pure ravenwing armies as a way to effectively deal with light and medium armour without having to take plasma and thus kill your expensive as feth troops.

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 Krellnus wrote:
It's a shame that the nephilim is a fast attack, making it compete with black knights and dark shrouds, if it was heavy or elite, I could easily see it having a place in pure ravenwing armies as a way to effectively deal with light and medium armour without having to take plasma and thus kill your expensive as feth troops.
I agree. I want to squeeze in 1 or 2 more fast attack choices, and really nothing from the heavy choices.
   
 
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