A Potential Idea For Reforming Immigration (just throwing this out there)

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**Bromsy**

PredaKhaine wrote:
Hordini wrote:
PredaKhaine wrote:
Hordini wrote:
PredaKhaine wrote:
yeri wrote:
this morning I had an idea with regards to how to reform immigration, and it came from the Romans. what if anyone who could meet certain requirements for becoming a naturalized citizen could join the military and after a tour of duty and an honorable discharge would be put in a kind of "express lane" to becoming a US citizen? even a normally illegal immigrant could take this path if they meet the requirements. the problem with the current system is that building a fence will not help. it is an issue of supply and demand, we are decreasing the supply of coming to the USA but we are not decreasing demand. what we must do is increase the supply, but not in a way that is unpalatable to the average joe on the street ("amnesty" and other such methods) to meet the demand. this is just a wild and wacky idea I just had that I thought I would share because I want to know what people think of it.

Starship troopers did it. They also added the same requirement to procreate.

You should probably read the book again. There was no such requirement to procreate in the text, either explicitly or implied.

Or you could watch the film again...They made a point of having a mixed shower scene where they discussed why they were in the army - one lady said 'because I wanna have babies'.
TBH, I'm impressed I remembered the dialogue.

Allow me to rephrase then: You should probably read the book.

Does the book have an extremely thin plot, forced along by some insanely random coincidences and completely gratuitous mixed shower scenes?

The book and the movie are quite dissimilar. And you aren't remembering the whole of that conversation - specifically the line is "Because I want to have babies, and it's so much easier to get a license if you've served." I also assume the emphasis of the character was on babies, as in having multiple children rather than having any child at all.

**sebster**

whembly wrote:
No.. I really mean this.

If you want to live here, sign the guest/book and getting a Green card really should be as easy as going to the DMV.

Yep, simple applications to get

For the record, when I honeymooned in the US there was quick, five minute form my wife and I filled out on-line. Cost $10 or thereabouts. Something similar (well maybe a little more complex) for a working visa, and then a specific list of occupations and industry payrates for people on working visas.

Any company found employing illegal immigrants would face incredibly stiff penalties.

Talking about military recruiters it was said earlier in the thread that people wouldn't break the law if there was no reason, that quotas could be met legally. Well the same for companies, they won't break the law and hire illegal immigrants if they can access a labour pool of legal immigrants on working visas.

**Somedude593**

Relapse wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I like our current plan of making the US a crappier country than Mexico so they don't want to come over here. I'll be Detroit doesn't have any illegals in it at all!

The drug users here are helping make Mexico a crappier country by empowering the cartels with drug money and by doing so becoming accomplices to the tens of thousands of murders a year down there.

Well what can i say but ^this^...... then the cartels use illegal immigrants as mules to get drugs over the border often times getting kidnapped by the cartel members on the other side increasing violence in the barrios

**whembly**

Somedude593 wrote:
Relapse wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I like our current plan of making the US a crappier country than Mexico so they don't want to come over here. I'll be Detroit doesn't have any illegals in it at all!

The drug users here are helping make Mexico a crappier country by empowering the cartels with drug money and by doing so becoming accomplices to the tens of thousands of murders a year down there.

Well what can i say but ^this^...... then the cartels use illegal immigrants as mules to get drugs over the border often times getting kidnapped by the cartel members on the other side increasing violence in the barrios

The start legalizing the drugs.

**Ouze**

sebster wrote:
[For the record, when I honeymooned in the US there was quick, five minute form my wife and I filled out on-line. Cost $10 or thereabouts. Something similar (well maybe a little more complex) for a working visa, and then a specific list of occupations and industry payrates for people on working visas.

One of your countrymen wrote a piece on what immigrating to the US is like, and apparently it's uh, a little different then just visiting or even working.

**Relapse**

whembly wrote:
Somedude593 wrote:
Relapse wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I like our current plan of making the US a crappier country than Mexico so they don't want to come over here. I'll be Detroit doesn't have any illegals in it at all!

The drug users here are helping make Mexico a crappier country by empowering the cartels with drug money and by doing so becoming accomplices to the tens of thousands of murders a year down there.

Well what can i say but ^this^...... then the cartels use illegal immigrants as mules to get drugs over the border often times getting kidnapped by the cartel members on the other side increasing violence in the barrios

The start legalizing the drugs.

No thanks. I lived in a crack house for a few months, not because I was using drugs, but because it was the only place I could afford at the time. I got a good look at what liberal drug use does not only to the heavy users, but saw all the high school kids from around the area.that came by to get drugs.
Even if drugs were legalized tomorrow, the users have helped caused the all deaths that have gone before through making it worthwhile for the cartels to kill people. Mexico is a hell hole now that many Mexicans blame on the drug users here and countless others are trying to escape.

**Hordini**

Bromsy wrote:
PredaKhaine wrote:
Hordini wrote:
PredaKhaine wrote:
Hordini wrote:
PredaKhaine wrote:
yeri wrote:
this morning I had an idea with regards to how to reform immigration, and it came from the Romans. what if anyone who could meet certain requirements for becoming a naturalized citizen could join the military and after a tour of duty and an honorable discharge would be put in a kind of "express lane" to becoming a US citizen? even a normally illegal immigrant could take this path if they meet the requirements. the problem with the current system is that building a fence will not help. it is an issue of supply and demand, we are decreasing the supply of coming to the USA but we are not decreasing demand. what we must do is increase the supply, but not in a way that is unpalatable to the average joe on the street ("amnesty" and other such methods) to meet the demand. this is just a wild and wacky idea I just had that I thought I would share because I want to know what people think of it.

Starship troopers did it. They also added the same requirement to procreate.

You should probably read the book again. There was no such requirement to procreate in the text, either explicitly or implied.

Or you could watch the film again...They made a point of having a mixed shower scene where they discussed why they were in the army - one lady said 'because I wanna have babies'.
TBH, I'm impressed I remembered the dialogue.

Allow me to rephrase then: You should probably read the book.

Does the book have an extremely thin plot, forced along by some insanely random coincidences and completely gratuitous mixed shower scenes?

The book and the movie are quite dissimilar. And you aren't remembering the whole of that conversation - specifically the line is "Because I want to have babies, and it's so much easier to get a license if you've served." I also assume the emphasis of the character was on babies, as in having multiple children rather than having any child at all.

Yeah, the book is a lot different than the movie. I'm pretty sure the guy who directed the movie even admitted he hadn't read the book, but that's his loss. The book is worth reading.

**sebster**

Ouze wrote:
One of your countrymen wrote a piece on what immigrating to the US is like, and apparently it's uh, a little different then just visiting or even working.

Exactly. Reform the process so that it's as simple as possible. I mean, if a five minute form and $10 fee is enough for you to trust that I won't disappear into your country and start working illegally on a tomato farm, then how much more does there need to be for a working visa?

**Hordini**

Grey Templar wrote:
Its the principle at the very least.

And I do feel that some things should be taken away from convicted felons of certain crimes. Some/most Constitutional Rights for one.

We shouldn't be cruel to criminals, but they should no longer enjoy any privileges associated with being a citizen if they are found guilty of violating the laws. Or at the very least have them restricted severly.

You lose the right to vote, the right to bear arms, eligibility for public office, any sort of government aid, etc... Until you can prove you have reformed or something.

I agree that it is appropriate to limit certain rights of criminals. Obviously their rights are extremely restricted when they go to prison or are even put on probation. I don't think illegal immigration is generally a heinous enough crime to warrant going to prison for though.

**sebster**

Somedude593 wrote:
Well what can i say but ^this^...... then the cartels use illegal immigrants as mules to get drugs over the border often times getting kidnapped by the cartel members on the other side increasing violence in the barrios

And so reducing the flow of illegal immigration will help in controlling the flow of drugs. Afterall, if you reduce the number of people making illegal journeys into the US (because they can get work visas instead) then you reduce the number of available mules for the drug carriers.

**PredaKhaine**

Bromsy wrote:

The book and the movie are quite dissimilar. And you aren't remembering the whole of that conversation - specifically the line is "Because I want to have babies, and it's so much easier to get a license if you've served." I also assume the emphasis of the character was on babies, as in having multiple children rather than having any child at all.

Which brings us neatly back to Yeri's original post, where he said

yeri wrote:
what if anyone who could meet certain requirements for becoming a naturalized citizen could join the military and after a tour of duty and an honorable discharge would be put in a kind of "express lane" to becoming a US citizen?

And I said

PredaKhaine wrote:

Starship troopers did it. They also added the same requirement to procreate.

@Hordini - I'll go read the book. It sounds better than the film.

**Relapse**

sebster wrote:
Somedude593 wrote:
Well what can i say but ^this^...... then the cartels use illegal immigrants as mules to get drugs over the border often times getting kidnapped by the cartel members on the other side increasing violence in the barrios

And so reducing the flow of illegal immigration will help in controlling the flow of drugs. Afterall, if you reduce the number of people making illegal journeys into the US (because they can get work visas instead) then you reduce the number of available mules for the drug carriers.

Sounds good in theory, but the cartels don't play nice, as a shed containing the bodies of 70 people who refused to haul drugs for the them attest. They get really nasty to people who refuse to do their bidding if they decide that person should do something for them.

**Vulcan**

Personally, I think full voting citizenship should be based on doing something for the common good before it is granted... and that applies to natural-born citizens as well as immigrants.

Say, a 5-year term in the military or equivalent option for contiencious objectors, or five years working for minimum wage in the service or farming industry. If you haven't done ANY of that, you don't understand the American people at all and don't need to be voting or running for office.

**Relapse**

Vulcan wrote:
Personally, I think full voting citizenship should be based on doing something for the common good before it is granted... and that applies to natural-born citizens as well as immigrants.

Say, a 5-year term in the military or equivalent option for contiencious objectors, or five years working for minimum wage in the service or farming industry. If you haven't done ANY of that, you don't understand the American people at all and don't need to be voting or running for office.

I like this idea since it gets people out of their box of pre concieved notions early in life. As a young man, I had some pretty hard and fast ideas about people and things that didn't survive contact with reality.