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 ProfessionalAmateur wrote:
Jeez, remind me never to mug this guy.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you never to mug anyone.


Oh wait, just seen your location.

 Flashman wrote:
Having watched the 2nd video, it seems to be most useful if you happen to tackled by someone wielding two samurai swords.

No doubt this is an everyday occurrence in the US, but it's decidedly more rare over here.

LOVE IT. Seems incredibly pointless as a weapon but still fairly cool

This is all kinds of Awsome.

And remember, people originally said lasers were pointless and had no application. Never assume


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 Flashman wrote:
The effect was pretty cool, but surely it makes more sense for a taser weapon to be used at range.

As the saying goes, "You just bought a taser knife to a taser gun fight."

Except what happens if you miss? Remember a Taser requires you to hit with 2 seperate projectiles.

Is it likely pointless, yes. But thats not to say the idea is worthless. An electrical shock melee weapon.

This weapon would be practical used as a form of jitte in support of a second weapon to be used as a distraction to open your opponent up to the killing blow.... that said in an age of guns its now only useful for the lulz

 Somedude593 wrote:
This weapon would be practical used as a form of jitte in support of a second weapon to be used as a distraction to open your opponent up to the killing blow.... that said in an age of guns its now only useful for the lulz

I don't know. a Quick drawn knife in a close quarters situation with this thing charged up and ready to go would be devastating upon someones neck if I sliced at them.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Somedude593 wrote:
This weapon would be practical used as a form of jitte in support of a second weapon to be used as a distraction to open your opponent up to the killing blow.... that said in an age of guns its now only useful for the lulz

I don't know. a Quick drawn knife in a close quarters situation with this thing charged up and ready to go would be devastating upon someones neck if I sliced at them.

A good knife slice requires maximum cutting and minimal resistance of the flesh.... with two knives put together like that you can scratch him but the good deep knife cuts you want are basically not going to happen especially with the gubbins between blades

 Somedude593 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Somedude593 wrote:
This weapon would be practical used as a form of jitte in support of a second weapon to be used as a distraction to open your opponent up to the killing blow.... that said in an age of guns its now only useful for the lulz

I don't know. a Quick drawn knife in a close quarters situation with this thing charged up and ready to go would be devastating upon someones neck if I sliced at them.

A good knife slice requires maximum cutting and minimal resistance of the flesh.... with two knives put together like that you can scratch him but the good deep knife cuts you want are basically not going to happen especially with the gubbins between blades

AH i didn't notice thats what he did. a single blade might of been better

The only obsctruction is where the spacers are. You could still get a pretty deep cut, or a stab with those in there.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The only obsctruction is where the spacers are. You could still get a pretty deep cut, or a stab with those in there.

Kind of defeats the purpose of a knife. Knives are for slicing, not stabbing.
Spears are meant for stabbing.

Depends on the knife, I usually think they do both.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Depends on the knife, I usually think they do both.

Well In a quick draw of a knife or a sword, I would have to remove my sword or knife from the person torso by pulling it out. Slicing is faster and cleaner*
Stabbing involves more force but also leads you defenseless while you try to pull out the sword/knife. Stabbing may seem a great idea, but slicing or cleaving are better for a swordsmen to use. Stabbing is quite sloppy as someone could knock you away from your sword, plus there is no way you know you actually killed someone, it would hurt like hell yes, but then your disarmed till you pull out the sword.

Yeah, but slicing usually won't do much beyond superficial damage except in a few specific areas. Its a stab wound that will be fatal normally.

And swords were made with a groove down the middle so the blade wouldn't get stuck in a body. And you would have a shield to defend yourself while you pulled it out.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, but slicing usually won't do much beyond superficial damage except in a few specific areas. Its a stab wound that will be fatal normally.

Cleaving also helps (Combination of a slice and a stab, but easier than a stab and more force which would probably take out an arm.

I've seen some slices that take off hands. (Sword training - someone accidentally spun his sword to fast and it slipped and cut right through his hand. Now he has three fingers on that hand.)

Asherian, aren't you about 15? Why are you arguing about the best way to perform a knife assault with some dude who has My Little Pony as his avatar? The pair of you look ridiculous.

Also, I'm pretty certain you're wrong about stabbing vs. slashing. The Romans figured that out like, 2000 years ago. That's how they were able to butcher hordes of barbarians with relatively short stabbing blades.

 Albatross wrote:
Asherian, aren't you about 15? Why are you arguing about the best way to perform a knife assault with some dude who has My Little Pony as his avatar? The pair of you look ridiculous.

Also, I'm pretty certain you're wrong about stabbing vs. slashing. The Romans figured that out like, 2000 years ago. That's how they were able to butcher hordes of barbarians with relatively short stabbing blades.

Why do people keep getting my age mixed up I'm 18 (19 tomorrow morning 3/11)

I took fencing. From observations stabbing seemed inefficient.

And I do NOT have a MLP avatar


And as a sabre fencer, stabbing is used as much as cuts. Its just a function of how things happen during the fight.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
Asherian, aren't you about 15? Why are you arguing about the best way to perform a knife assault with some dude who has My Little Pony as his avatar? The pair of you look ridiculous.

Also, I'm pretty certain you're wrong about stabbing vs. slashing. The Romans figured that out like, 2000 years ago. That's how they were able to butcher hordes of barbarians with relatively short stabbing blades.

Why do people keep getting my age mixed up I'm 18 (19 tomorrow morning 3/11)

I took fencing. From observations stabbing seemed inefficient.

So, in a fencing class you saw someone get his hand sliced off by accident? Hmm. Colour me skeptical. If you think about for a second, it make perfectly logical sense that 6 inches of point would do more damage than six inches of edge. If you plunge even a small six inch blade into someone's body, you have a very good chance indeed of hitting something vital, whereas with an edge, you're just going to cause a nasty cut that is probably just going to be a flesh-wound. That is, unless you slit someone's throat. And if you can get yourself into a position to do that, the guy on the receiving end is already having a pretty bad day either way, because he's at your mercy...

This sort of logic is why the Royal Marines are equipped with these:

That's the Fairburn-Sykes Fighting Knife, and it has one purpose - to stab people. I've seen one up close (I have a couple of friends, Mattyrm being one, who are/were in the RM), and they are fething fearsome. They're basically a big razor sharp point intended to be thrust into people. That's literally all it's useful for. It's not supposed to be multi-purpose like a Bowie knife. The Marines are basically the UK's shock troops and the reason that have that particular weapon is that if it ever came down to it (and you'd NEVER want it to) that's the ideal knife for fighting with, the one that would give you the best chance of surviving the encounter.


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@Grey Templar - I meant the other guy. It just looked funny, is all.

Stabbings are far more deadly, you only have to penetrate about 4 inches anywhere on the upper torso to cause a severe and likely killing wound. At that depth it's almost always going to hit lung or heart or major vein/artery. Which when coupled with Roman/Barbarian/Classical medical expertise you're pretty much screwed.

Also, as a fencer you should extra know that stabbing is more effective and efficient then slashing. All of the weapons used in fencing are stabbing weapons, and two of them don't even have edges, because slashing is crap if you actually intend to kill someone.

Somewhat ninja'd? And my dad has one of the Sykes Commando Knives. He inherited it from his dad who got it from a friend of his was a British Commando during the war. Apparently it's killed several Germans.

I did some knife training alongside fencing, and as part of Aikido. I'm the furthest thing from an expert, but I'm a nerd and will happily participate in the discussion.

Alby's right that a good thrust to a vital area is much more likely to kill or incapacitate. It does require more physical commitment to the motion; slashing, OTOH, is something you can do while moving more defensively and exposing yourself less. Nevertheless, the RM have the right approach- you don't want to draw out a knife fight and risk getting badly cut yourself. In combat you want it to be over quickly- overbear and control the guy and stick the knife somewhere it'll finish the fight.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I did some knife training alongside fencing, and as part of Aikido. I'm the furthest thing from an expert, but I'm a nerd and will happily participate in the discussion.

Alby's right that a good thrust to a vital area is much more likely to kill or incapacitate. It does require more physical commitment to the motion; slashing, OTOH, is something you can do while moving more defensively and exposing yourself less. Nevertheless, the RM have the right approach- you don't want to draw out a knife fight and risk getting badly cut yourself. In combat you want it to be over quickly- overbear and control the guy and stick the knife somewhere it'll finish the fight.

I'm more of a defensive swordsmen . I like drawing out fights so it might just be personal preference. Of course I did use a broad sword and held it in an undergrip for some strange reason. I have no idea why i hold swords backwards. Might be my defensiveness showing.

But yeah I get the stabbing thing. I feel a quick slash to stomach would usually put someone and kill them quite well. (Not saying i have, . Just a thought)

Also who ever uses one of those musketeer sword is a wus. Real men use double edged swords, like claymores, broadswords, shortswords, and longswords. Or a Halbred if your experienced beyond fething belief.

Fighting with Broadswords isn't Fencing. Fencing is either done with Foils, Epees, or Sabres.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Fighting with Broadswords isn't Fencing. Fencing is either done with Foils, Epees, or Sabres.

We call it extreme fencing, using similar techiniques but an italian mix. It was a fencing class but they had tiers like some people did regular fencing while others (like me) used the broad swords, and long swords. So swordsmen training basically.

Actually, gut slashes, or disembowlings, aren't fatal as long as you don't pierce the intestines. You can just throw your intestines back in and sew that sucker up.

Barring infection or bloodloss of course.

You can't it Fencing. Call it whatever you want, but it is NOT Fencing. Fencing specifically refers to a martial art involving 3 specific weapons.

Well actually that is French/Italian school of fencing. The German school of fencing uses Zweihanderswert's.

 Ratbarf wrote:
Actually, gut slashes, or disembowlings, aren't fatal as long as you don't pierce the intestines. You can just throw your intestines back in and sew that sucker up.

Barring infection or bloodloss of course.

Good luck doing that in the middle of a knife fight.
Though melee combat is ineffective compared to range combat.

So the need to use this is null as only like 1 knife fight has happened in like 100 firefights. (estimate don't actually know, just making an educated guess)

So i think we can all agree guns > knives/swords

This is where fencing gets confusing. There's Olympic Fencing which is stupid and lame because foils suck, and then there's what is generally referred to as "Historical" fencing, which uses all the older ACTUAL weapons such as rapiers, sabers, and going back further to long swords, broad swords, bastard swords, zweihanders, etc and are trained off the classic methodology for these arms.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I did some knife training alongside fencing, and as part of Aikido. I'm the furthest thing from an expert, but I'm a nerd and will happily participate in the discussion.

Alby's right that a good thrust to a vital area is much more likely to kill or incapacitate. It does require more physical commitment to the motion; slashing, OTOH, is something you can do while moving more defensively and exposing yourself less. Nevertheless, the RM have the right approach- you don't want to draw out a knife fight and risk getting badly cut yourself. In combat you want it to be over quickly- overbear and control the guy and stick the knife somewhere it'll finish the fight.

It also depends what type of sword style and swords you intend to use....... i have personally studied Musashi's two sword style in which one smaller sword is used to block/stab and your dominant sword is used for broad slashing attacks (as detailed in the book of five rings if anyone wants to look that up)... Sword styles ans swords across the world are inherently different .. stabbing is a better tactic for certain types of swords/knives in certain types of styles while slashing is better for other swords and other types of styles, neither is definitively better than any other across the board which is why styles can emphasize either one.

And Albatross how does my avatar display my knowledge of swordsmanship?

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
A thousand hippies cry out in pain.

"Don't Tazestab me, Bro!"

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Alby's right that a good thrust to a vital area is much more likely to kill or incapacitate. It does require more physical commitment to the motion; slashing, OTOH, is something you can do while moving more defensively and exposing yourself less. Nevertheless, the RM have the right approach- you don't want to draw out a knife fight and risk getting badly cut yourself. In combat you want it to be over quickly- overbear and control the guy and stick the knife somewhere it'll finish the fight.

I'm more of a defensive swordsmen . I like drawing out fights so it might just be personal preference.

But yeah I get the stabbing thing. I feel a quick slash to stomach would usually put someone and kill them quite well. (Not saying i have, . Just a thought).

We're talking about two different things. Speaking as someone trained as a Fencer, you should never confuse Fencing with attempting to kill someone or win a fight with a knife. In Fencing I trained (and if you Fence, then you train) in a sport evolved from and/or emulating historical sword fighting techniques. We are not training to do what the Royal marines do, which is kill someone as quickly and expediently as possible in an actual life or death situation. You never want to draw out a fight in real life. You want it to be over. Either by escape or by incapacitating the other guy.

Of course I did use a broad sword and held it in an undergrip for some strange reason. I have no idea why i hold swords backwards. Might be my defensiveness showing.

Or possibly you're just making stuff up, as no broadsword teacher is going to tell you that holding it underhand is a good idea, nor will anyone who's actually trained as a Fencer be inclined to hold any sort of long blade underhanded.


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 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
This is where fencing gets confusing. There's Olympic Fencing which is stupid and lame because foils suck, and then there's what is generally referred to as "Historical" fencing, which uses all the older ACTUAL weapons such as rapiers, sabers, and going back further to long swords, broad swords, bastard swords, zweihanders, etc and are trained off the classic methodology for these arms.

Also this.

There are also some other modes of Fencing, like Schlager, which aren't Olympic-style and aren't really historial-recreationist activities either.


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 Somedude593 wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Alby's right that a good thrust to a vital area is much more likely to kill or incapacitate. It does require more physical commitment to the motion; slashing, OTOH, is something you can do while moving more defensively and exposing yourself less. Nevertheless, the RM have the right approach- you don't want to draw out a knife fight and risk getting badly cut yourself. In combat you want it to be over quickly- overbear and control the guy and stick the knife somewhere it'll finish the fight.

It also depends what type of sword style and swords you intend to use....... i have personally studied Musashi's two sword style in which one smaller sword is used to block/stab and your dominant sword is used for broad slashing attacks (as detailed in the book of five rings if anyone wants to look that up)... Sword styles ans swords across the world are inherently different .. stabbing is a better tactic for certain types of swords/knives in certain types of styles while slashing is better for other swords and other types of styles, neither is definitively better than any other across the board which is why styles can emphasize either one.

A) Remember that the original comparison of slashing or stabbing was talking about knives; not about historical swords. With short blades, especially, stabbing tends to be much more likely to kill or incapacitate than slashing.
B) Yes, different cultures and weapons and time periods favored one over another. That being said, generally speaking (especially with shorter blades), thrusting is going to be more deadly. Japanese sword styles evolved in a particular cultural context, and in a locale where high quality steel was not really available. If you want a historical example of a successful miltary using blades, the Romans are pretty much kings of the heap. And they gave their guys spears, short swords, and shields.