Is Cygnar as bad as I hear?

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**Sharps**

Not at all, but isn't WarmaHordes suppose to have all armies balanced? The only weak faction I am aware of is possibly the Mercenaries, i've seen them lose a bit, but the game just depends on luck, not who has the most OP models, but what you want is to go with what your gut feels like, and doing that will give you morale and morale makes you feel lucky.

**njpc**

DrDuckman wrote:
I'm still staggered by how many people can afford to buy an 80 quid model for a wargame, much less two... dear god people, that's getting more expensive than 40k now.

But still, while can see how the Stormwall is effective, particularly with the cover templates giving it some very important anti weapon master deterrent that other colossials dont have, surely having only one type of unit in your list is a deterrent, eHaley or not. There is gotta be a hard counter to it. I am thinking Cyrx infantry spam?

Your right they are expensive. But factor in if someone has bought 2 Colossals, they are not dropping money on all those infantry units that are about 40% of the cost of a colossal. Colossal plus Haley is hard, but does not put you into auto win. Many 2nd lists for SR's are made to drop Colossals or Heavy Armor. Khador does it quite well. The nice part about SR's as well... you don't always have to kill the big nasty model to win the game

One of the better anti colossal lists I saw, came from Cygnar with Prime Haley and 2 Hunters vs Darius and double Colossal. Prime Haley feats turn 2, and drops 1 colossal flat in 1 turn with the extra shots.

**Grey Templar**

Dais wrote:
While we're on the subject of the eHaley/stormwall problem I feel a rant coming on, a rare event for me.

I've been very disappointed in how shallow the use of such a great model as stormwall has been. When it was first spoiled and people realized how meta-bending it was dozens of experimental lists popped up. What happened? were they all failed experiments? eHaley has enough strengths to win without two stormwalls, so why are people putting all their crutches in one basket?
Where is Kraye, where is pNemo, Where is Darius? Are single stormwall lists with other casters only viable in my tiny gaming group? I love those two models separately, but using them together has become so "warhammer" that the fun has been drained. There is no single best list. The more one thing becomes dominant, the more it will backlash and hurt all similar models later on. I do not want these unimaginative copycats to ruin all the colossals for everyone and especially don't want cygnar to take a step back.

Cygnar is not a weak faction, but it sorely needs some top-tier players to champion it and showcase how creative solutions can be found. This overuse of the eHaley double stormwall list exemplifies that.

Solution: Find the hard counter to the double Stormwall eHaley list. Beat its face in repeatedly. This will make the Cygnar player try something else.

**PhantomViper**

Grey Templar wrote:

Solution: Find the hard counter to the double Stormwall eHaley list. Beat its face in repeatedly. This will make the Cygnar player try something else.

Or it will just make them go back to the good old days of whining about their faction being reallllllllly bad!

**Grey Templar**

In which case, continue the beatings until morale improves.

**Mad4Minis**

Castiel wrote:
DrDuckman wrote:
Yeah, the major concern that I am seeing is that I have no idea how you would pop some of the Khaldor jacks with their insane armor, or how you'd handle Protectorate jacks that can't be shot due to Choir.

Running into the biggest threat with a Lancer and whacking it 3 times with the shock shield to take out its cortex is fairly effective.

Ditto for the Defender, its hammer does the same thing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BTNeophyte wrote:
Cygnar isn't bad.

However, one of the key elements of being a cygnar player is thinking they are and lamenting it

I just had my first game of Warmchine last weekend, and my Cygnar did better than expected. It was against a friend of mine, playing Menoth, and we both used the faction starter sets. I passed on a tactical opportunity, completely missed a jacks special rule...and I still trashed his jacks. He technically won by killing my caster...but I rushed into CC with his caster when I should have backed off and shot for a turn or two and softened him up.

My light jacks stood up well, tacking a lot of damage before falling. My ironclad walked through his Crusader taking only moderate damage.

I went into it thinking I was going to get hosed, made a couple of errors knowingly (just wanted to get a feel for the rules more than anything) and still almost beat him. In the end he was taken by how close the game was ( and I think a bit disappointed) and I felt great, knowing if I had played hard I would have won.

The lesson we both learned...when people say Warmachine is mostly up to player skill, they arent kidding.