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 nolzur wrote:
Warmachine and Hordes are the same game, so I wonder how the chart would look if they added the two together.

Definitely this. They're two halves of the same overall game and should be counted the same. Separating them is like counting Space Marines separate from Xenos armies. X-Wing may have beaten them individually, but I doubt it beat them combined.

Also, I still need to get/play X Wing...

 Laughing Man wrote:

silent25 wrote:
Temporary blip driven by nostalgia of Star Wars. While it sounds like a well done game, only so many ships they can pull from and then they would have to turn to Ep. 1 - 3 which are no where as popular. Plus SW is pre-painted which mean is far more accessible to those that would not normally be interested in the other lines.

Depends, really. They've already shown a willingness to do EU stuff (Tycho Celchu and Soontir Fel are both pilots), so stuff like the Z95 or TIE Defender could very well start showing up, as well as potential for even Yuuzhan Vong ships (which are probably never going to happen and would be way down the line, but still sound cool).

And I'm pretty sure average Star Wars fans are not aware of these and would look at them with the same response as the Episode 1 - 3 stuff. I do not see this game having legs. Pulling stuff from the comics and books might provide some more material, but this riding the nostalgia and fandom of the original movies. Some may even react in disgust with a level of Greedo shot first to the additional stuff.


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 AduroT wrote:

 nolzur wrote:
Warmachine and Hordes are the same game, so I wonder how the chart would look if they added the two together.

Definitely this. They're two halves of the same overall game and should be counted the same. Separating them is like counting Space Marines separate from Xenos armies. X-Wing may have beaten them individually, but I doubt it beat them combined.

Also, I still need to get/play X Wing...

Would really be curious to this number. Would answer once for which system is selling better.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures second place is the game that good?

I have admit I bought up X-Wing and have about 14 ships and have only gotten to play one game with them so far since Christmas. Still going to get a bunch of the second wave fighters as well, even if it takes me another 3 months to get in another game. Just goes to show what a brand name can do.

Actually, the source of the numbers would be very interesting too. I know a long time ago there were places to see charts like this (back when it was basically 40k, WFB, Warzone, and I think Battletech.) Back then GW never released their numbers, the info was based only on the Distributor numbers since GW refused. Wonder if this includes the sales form GW Trade or Retail (even though the # is probably small in US)? If not then the numbers could be radically different, including the rankings.

I know they say retailers distributors and manufacturers....but would be nice to find out once if they get numbers from them all, or if they don't get numbers from some of the manufacturers.

 Tethyr13 wrote:
Actually, the source of the numbers would be very interesting too. I know a long time ago there were places to see charts like this (back when it was basically 40k, WFB, Warzone, and I think Battletech.) Back then GW never released their numbers, the info was based only on the Distributor numbers since GW refused. Wonder if this includes the sales form GW Trade or Retail (even though the # is probably small in US)? If not then the numbers could be radically different, including the rankings.

I know they say retailers distributors and manufacturers....but would be nice to find out once if they get numbers from them all, or if they don't get numbers from some of the manufacturers.

GW, being a publicly traded company, has to release a lot of sales and revenue information, so I'd assume the numbers for them would be the most accurate really, assuming ICv2 used that information. Sales from other private companies would more likely be estimates, but there wouldn't be as many direct sales to confuse things.

 Laughing Man wrote:

silent25 wrote:
Temporary blip driven by nostalgia of Star Wars. While it sounds like a well done game, only so many ships they can pull from and then they would have to turn to Ep. 1 - 3 which are no where as popular. Plus SW is pre-painted which mean is far more accessible to those that would not normally be interested in the other lines.

Depends, really. They've already shown a willingness to do EU stuff (Tycho Celchu and Soontir Fel are both pilots), so stuff like the Z95 or TIE Defender could very well start showing up, as well as potential for even Yuuzhan Vong ships (which are probably never going to happen and would be way down the line, but still sound cool).

As will most the other ships from the X wing video game series. There is a pretty big following for the game that has sprung up through video game review sites making comparisons to the X-wing versus Tie fighter games as well as some of the review and fan sites doing conversions from video game scenarios to table top game scenarios.

Being prepainted is a selling factor as well, since it allows them to hit a much larger market then they ever could with unpainted or kit miniatures. The big limiting factor for the game will likely be the license and not the potential of the property. FFG recieved the license from Lucas before Disney bought Lucas. When the terms are up for renewal, Disney may not want to offer amicable terms or may want to pull the property back to one of their regular suppliers.

 Kroothawk wrote:
These are US trends, right?

BTW in my area, noone plays Warmahordes, but many Warhammer Fantasy.

Oh yeah? Well in Trinidad I've never seen anyone play Warmahordes or Fantasy!

Or anything else...

Just me and my 40k toys...

So alone...




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EDIT - w00t Cool Guam flag!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures second place is the game that good?

I like it, but my group isn't into it. I've seen it sold at FLGS and the Giant Book Store near me.

The brand and the minis are popular, even among people that don't necessarily buy it to play the game.

Not just book stores have it. I know that I got the copy of the main game I gave my youngest brother as a Christmas present from Target, and they had everything there.

godswildcard wrote:Maybe I'm out of the loop, but I'm actually surprised Warmachine is taking third above WHFB.

Not that surprising. WHFB has been kind of a "dead" game since Warmahordes really started hitting its stride. Plenty of people still play WHFB, but it really does not seem to be as appealing to a wider audience like 40k is.

I think there are still a lot of WHFB players, but since the figures are so generic many will be buying the bulk of their armies from other companies; AoW, Mantic. Wargames Factory etc, and potentially sticking with v7 rules. So because GW's figures are so expensive and easily proxied the figure sales may not be an indication of the game at all. Not that that's a good thing for GW though.

@MAddermax - yeah, but you can't break out 40k, WFB, Hobby sales from their reports. You can get overall #'s for US, but they have always been reticent about releasing that info. The earlier reports I was mentioning did something similar to this, but when I worked for GW the numbers did not add up. When they called to ask, it was always a polite - no way, don't bother us. I would be interested to know if GW IS reporting some info to them. It would be a change but we could be assured it was a complete picture.

 Tethyr13 wrote:
@MAddermax - yeah, but you can't break out 40k, WFB, Hobby sales from their reports. You can get overall #'s for US, but they have always been reticent about releasing that info. The earlier reports I was mentioning did something similar to this, but when I worked for GW the numbers did not add up. When they called to ask, it was always a polite - no way, don't bother us. I would be interested to know if GW IS reporting some info to them. It would be a change but we could be assured it was a complete picture.

CHS evidence has revealed a lot of this information. In order to prove many aspects of GW's trademark claims - they have had to show evidence of the value of their trademarks. You can work the math from there to figure out the various market shares and what not in relation to the ICv2 information.

Jeez, I am a broken record. Do the math and you will see that their year over year improvement in the most recent reporting period in North America is EXACTLY 15%. And while I am being a pedantic douche, you don't "gather" revenue, you earn it.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:So the big question is was GWs growth 15% over that period? Are they ahead or behind of the market place?

I think there profits have been fairly static over the past few years, so I'd take this to be the market growing as a whole around them.

kronk wrote:I've literally NEVER seen anyone play WHFB. Never. Like, not even one time at band camp. I live in a city of 2.5 million people. I've been in and out of game stores.

I know there are people that play it. All of the game stores have it. I've just never seen it on the table top. It's as elusive as finding a hot 30-to-35-year-old chick with no kids that's into RPGs.

Hahahaha.. very good

So essentially GW is performing far below the market standard, so in real terms they are falling behind on the revenue they should be gathering. Well that certainly doesn't sound very good for GW.

@jack_death show your working out then

I'm not sure what that means? Do you mean the revenue figures? Look at the most recent quarter filing, look up North America, look for year ago period, and compare. That's what I did.

Or do you mean that I should do it for you? I've posted the figures several times in the last week, easy enough to find.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@jack_death show your working out then

Jack_Death wrote:
I'm not sure what that means? Do you mean the revenue figures? Look at the most recent quarter filing, look up North America, look for year ago period, and compare. That's what I did.

Or do you mean that I should do it for you? I've posted the figures several times in the last week, easy enough to find.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@jack_death show your working out then

My understanding was that this report was for the USA market place. GW only report numbers for north America which also includes the figures for Canada, thus was wondering where you got the figures solely for the US market place to be able to make such bold claims?

I'm making a bold claim? I'm quoting a financial report. Jeez.

Are you saying that performance in North America overall is not indicative of, and largely determined by, performance in the US? If so, then I think you are incorrect.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

Jack_Death wrote:
I'm not sure what that means? Do you mean the revenue figures? Look at the most recent quarter filing, look up North America, look for year ago period, and compare. That's what I did.

Or do you mean that I should do it for you? I've posted the figures several times in the last week, easy enough to find.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@jack_death show your working out then

My understanding was that this report was for the USA market place. GW only report numbers for north America which also includes the figures for Canada, thus was wondering where you got the figures solely for the US market place to be able to make such bold claims?

Jack_Death wrote:
I'm making a bold claim? I'm quoting a financial report. Jeez.

Are you saying that performance in North America overall is not indicative of, and largely determined by, performance in the US? If so, then I think you are incorrect.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

Jack_Death wrote:
I'm not sure what that means? Do you mean the revenue figures? Look at the most recent quarter filing, look up North America, look for year ago period, and compare. That's what I did.

Or do you mean that I should do it for you? I've posted the figures several times in the last week, easy enough to find.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@jack_death show your working out then

My understanding was that this report was for the USA market place. GW only report numbers for north America which also includes the figures for Canada, thus was wondering where you got the figures solely for the US market place to be able to make such bold claims?

So you don't actually have any figures for just the USA to base your claim on?

 kronk wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures second place is the game that good?

I like it, but my group isn't into it. I've seen it sold at FLGS and the Giant Book Store near me.

The brand and the minis are popular, even among people that don't necessarily buy it to play the game.

Nolstalgia value. who remembers running around as a kid with starwars figurines like chewbacca and han solo and luke not having parents able to afford the starwars kits which they'd know we'd break as soon as we looked at it? well now grown up (well mostly) the urge to buy something that at some time thought was cool. for some the reality doesn't match up with their memory/ies of the past and how much fun they had back then. idk but that is why i'd buy them.

rigeld2 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I've literally NEVER seen anyone play WHFB. Never. Like, not even one time at band camp. I live in a city of 2.5 million people. I've been in and out of game stores.

Fat Ogres in the Woodlands does a decent amount of Fantasy (if you want to see it played).

Too far for a spontaneous trip, I'm afraid (I'm down in the Clear Lake area).