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Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Rotgut wrote:Have you ever played monopoly?

Every time I play monopoly with people it turns into a 5 hour long fight to the death, it doesn't matter who is playing or what age they are. Monopoly ruins friendships.

The thing with 40k is that it takes a lot of time and effort and money to play which is why people take it so seriously.

Monopoly is an absurdly random game of chance with little room for skill which takes far too long to complete. I have never played a serious competitive game of monopoly before without people losing interest in the third hour, but I'm sure there are tournament Monopoly players out there but still a rare breed.

Actually Tournament Monopoly is pretty big and sometimes for big prizes. The skill in Monopoly is in negotiation and in bidding for properties and probably more difficult to master than some wargames.

Alas, I too have never played it with anyone willing to take it seriously enough to actually finish a game.


Onto the subject of 40K, it's like most hobbies. People put lots of time and often money into their hobbies and don't care for people ridiculing something they love. At least that is how I feel. I still don't understand why people choose to say spiteful things without provocation.

Personally I do take my hobbies seriously, in a silly sort of way. I love my 40K and model a silly looking Ork army and often play silly units that have no chance of winning. So because I do enjoy my hobby I do find it hurtful when people keep telling me to stop playing it, or this other game is better. The fact that these comments hurt indicate I am taking things seriously, possibly too seriously at times.

I don't mind people showing me the games they're playing, I enjoy it.
I don't mind hearing how awesomely cool a new game it is, I'll probably give it a go, I play lots of games.
But I don't have to accept the games I play being insulted at the same time. That's just rude.

Why do grown men get all vocal about a silly game where you kick a leather ball?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Why do grown men get all vocal about a silly game where you kick a leather ball?

Because its fun, and there's actual money involved with that too. Serious money.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

If you ask people in your FLGS if they want to play a 5th edition or 3rd edition game they look at you funny. Heck, people don't even remember the rules from those editions.

1. why would someone want to play an old edition when they have just gone and spent around £60 on a new rulebook

2. some people havn't played older rulebook editions

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Heck, people don't even remember the rules from those editions.

people forget things

 Grey Templar wrote:


Because its fun, and there's actual money involved with that too. Serious money.

Don't think he meant pro-players.

People get very, very emotional "just" being fans. Taking their team-colours, masquots, etc.. rather very serious, even if the only thing they do at the actual match is downing beers.


But I don't think you even need money invested (whether at pro-football levels or 40k level) to get "serious" about something. Hell, some people making winning a forum-discussion a competitive sport.

 Rotgut wrote:
Have you ever played monopoly?

Every time I play monopoly with people it turns into a 5 hour long fight to the death, it doesn't matter who is playing or what age they are. Monopoly ruins friendships.

The thing with 40k is that it takes a lot of time and effort and money to play which is why people take it so seriously.

lol Monopoly, my group of mates played a game of that one night and they weren't mates for a week. We've all sworn to never play that bastard of a game again. It breaks friendships.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Because its fun, and there's actual money involved with that too. Serious money.

Don't think he meant pro-players.

People get very, very emotional "just" being fans. Taking their team-colours, masquots, etc.. rather very serious, even if the only thing they do at the actual match is downing beers.


But I don't think you even need money invested (whether at pro-football levels or 40k level) to get "serious" about something. Hell, some people making winning a forum-discussion a competitive sport.

Beer ain't cheap, not the way most people I know drink it

And the fun part as well. Plus betting.

For me it's not just about the money spent. And boy, have I spent a lot of money. I even went so far as to fly to England back in 1990 for two reasons: See real castles and visit Games Workshop and talk my way inside so I could meet my gaming heros, Rick, Jervis, Blanche and Mike McVey.

40k is over 25 years old with a backstory that spans the galaxy. Have you ever actually read Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader? The original one? We're talking Jules Verne type technology that didn't exist then but is so common now almost everyone has it. Like...cell phone headsets. Google Glass. RFID chips. WIFI and Bluetooth all kinds of stuff. How bout "DATASLATES"?!? I think it's fair to say that there was more sci-fi that actually exists now than there was in all of Star Trek put together.

It was THAT kind of science fiction. Sure, they borrowed a lot from other sources, but it was the stuff 80's nerds dreamed of.

And it grew and it evolved and became books and movies and video games. My one regret is that Rick Priestley's vision didn't come to fruition, which was that it would evolve to be a scalable game using d10 mechanics, which is why you have Space Hulk, Epic, Battlefleet Gothic, Space Crusade, Inquisitor etc. etc. and none of the games are really compatible with each other. It took Fantasy Flight Games to bring all that together. I hope his new project is successful and I wish him all the best. Can't wait to play it.

The one thing I miss about original 40k was that it was a small unit tactics game. Currently, there's no version of 40k that re-creates that. The 40k rules are too dumbed down and written to sell more minis, and the FFG games are too involved for more than a squad per side.

I think the social aspect is a big part of it. Some people just have trouble expressing themselves in a positive way around other people or have a serious impulse control when it comes to saying things you shouldn't. The main fualt is the parents i think. Nobody teaches their kids how to win or lose anymore. Being a poor winner is just as bad as being a sore loser. You have to be able to judge your opponent and the situation acuriatly. Some of my friends laugh no matter what happens so we can laugh and joke on poor rolls and make joking comments. Some others are great guys but they get quieter when things start to go poorly so if I'm doing well I try not to be too excited about it. Physic powers are strong in 6th edition. Some more than others so if your spaming them so much that your wrecking house in a multi-player game, so much so that your teamates can't really help much then its probly not a good idea to blatently laugh at the other team who's struggling to hang in there.

DA SPEED FREEK wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

If you ask people in your FLGS if they want to play a 5th edition or 3rd edition game they look at you funny. Heck, people don't even remember the rules from those editions.

1. why would someone want to play an old edition when they have just gone and spent around £60 on a new rulebook

2. some people havn't played older rulebook editions

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Heck, people don't even remember the rules from those editions.

people forget things

I wish I could forget the old rules. Makes it hard to be clear on the new ones when I have to sift through the sludge of my memories cluttered with all the old rules. Which get tweaked for random reasons every edition.

I really don't care that much about winning, I just like to have a cool scenario, good lookin' armies, great board, and a saturday night.

 Grey Templar wrote:
True, Magic is the only game I've ever heard of people getting killed over.

Ever here of a little game called soccer, a war was started over a match once I believe in Central America.

JWhex wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
True, Magic is the only game I've ever heard of people getting killed over.

Ever here of a little game called soccer, a war was started over a match once I believe in Central America.

Ahh, by game I meant a card, board, or table top game. Yeah, Soccer has killed people before too.

I agree with rotgut. Monopoly is the worst. However, 40k can raise tempers due to how much money we sink into models. Some people just expect to win after they spend so much money. The rest of us like painting I play CSM and love the random elements. I rarely win, but I can put up a fight. To me it's more about painting when I feel like being alone, and gaming for fun if I feel like being social. I never play in tournies as I find the obligations to be too much like work, but I will take a saturday just to battle with my plastic mens. Win or lose, I USUALLY have fun. Some people are just not fun to play against because they take it too seriously, though. I don't like playing against people who get annoyed that my cheap plastic man got a lucky shot and killed their big monster/tank. My rolls are always all or nothing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, in reply to wowsmash, 40k seems to be a way for some people who are normally not very good in social settings, and the models are a point in which they can actually express themselves and as such make friends. I have several friends from the FLGS that have issues in social settings like bars, but they have no problem playing games with people.

40k players are bad, but MtG players can be far worse. However, the only time I've seen a player leave crying (and she took her boyfriend with her) was at a Vampire LARP.

Why do they take it so seriously?
Beats me.

Given the background for it, one famed for it's utter ludicrousness - where absurdity is piled on top of absurdity to the point where farce is still too serious a word for it - why ANYONE takes it seriously is beyond me.

I never took it seriously (but there are few things I do take seriously). It's a game for beer and pretzels - not gambling over cattle stations.

 Grey Templar wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
True, Magic is the only game I've ever heard of people getting killed over.

Ever here of a little game called soccer, a war was started over a match once I believe in Central America.

Ahh, by game I meant a card, board, or table top game. Yeah, Soccer has killed people before too.

A fair number of people have been gunned down during poker games or murdered in connection to a game.

Here is an interesting one but there must be hundreds of easy to find examples world wide

http://www.bluffeurope.com/poker-news/en/editorial/America-s-Richest-Gambler-Murdered-Over-a-Poker-Game_11721.aspx

Didn't know people still got shot over Poker these days

Soccer moms? Say wwwwhhhhaaaattttttttt!

 Melissia wrote:
Because my plastic/resin/metal soldiers are better than your plastic/resin/metal soldiers.

Actually, this is not far from the truth, you see, people are hard wired to view everything as a threat, whether it be a threat to them physically, a threat to their friends or family or even a threat to their ego. Now thousands of years ago on the savannah, this was fantastic, it kept us alive, but now with the advent the internet this leads to something very interesting.

When we are confronted with a genuine threat, our thought processes shift from the reasoning centres of the brain, to our amygdalas, which is the fight or flight area of our brain, due to it processing information much quicker (its why trained soldiers and police officiers tend to think that gunfights take place in slow motion,it doesn't really, just their ability to process what is happening is much quicker), however for many people a threat to their ego is a very real threat to them and as such, even though nothing is really going to come of the situation, thoughts switch to being processed by the amygala, this phenomenon is known as an 'amygdala hijacking'.

Leading back to the topic of the thread, when someone is playing a game (of 40k, Infinity, on the internet, whatever) they perceive the potential loss of the game and its 'damage' to their ego, as a real, tangible threat and when they feel threatened, the amygdala does its thing, takes over and atempts to respond to the situation appropriately.

Except it doesn't know how to, thus causing it to get stuck, for want of a better term, causing the phenomenon of 'nerd rage', it causes people to flame others and ultimatley treat the game (40k) as 'serious business'.

I know why most of the guys I play with take it seriously: they just want people to try and put effort into a game.

People play chess to have a challenge (winning is nice, but its the challenge that's fun). Ditto (for most people) with Settlers, Risk, Axis & Allies, etc. Its okay to have fun with it (laugh when one puny guy in Risk holds off 9 attackers) and keep it lighthearted... but the fun IS the challenge of it.

40k falls into the challenge category. That's why people take is so personal when someone walks away mid turn or fudges rules (image if someone tried an illegal move in chess). Its insulting to the game even more than the other players.

Its a challenge to build your models
A challenge to build a good list
A challenge to win (especially if your dice keeping biting you)
And sometimes its a challenge to do as much damage as you can on the way out (when losing).

So when someone blows it off, or cheats, or does the whole sour grapes thing mid game, some people take offense because of the social contract that's being violated. Its like a basketball team quitting at the end of the third quarter because they know they can't win... or asking for three point shots to be worth four. Some people get that (socially aware) some don't. That's what causes friction more often than not in my meta at least.

To me, its the fact that its such a huge time-sink (not to mention money-sink) that you want to justify your time by winning/having a good game/whatever.

The reason i tend to be a bit of a rule-lawyer is because my army doesnt walk around with reliable saves (orks) with the exception of 2 units. I have noticed every time i dont rule-lawyer about cover saves, going to ground bonuses, etc etc people try to screw me out of my save. Had one guy straight up say "Thats not a thing im not doing that" to the intervening model 5+ cover coming from his own units in his line of sight. Another guy when i was newer tried to say all cover saves in 6th are a 5+ except the ADL which is a 4+. See why i am a stickler for these rules?
Sketchy rules, yea whatever its not a tournament or anything. Rules in BOLD that are cut and dry...and mean i either get nothing or a decent chance to save my unit depending on if we use the rule or not? Not flying, the rule is in effect whether you like it or not.

Only reason i tend to get a bit emontional during a debate or whatever is because i am a redhead thus have a short fuse lol. Usually when i cross that line i back off and leave the room because i know noone likes dealing with a raging lunatic, but sometimes i dont catch myself before all i see is red.

That all being said i dont care if i lose, its a game after all. I DO care, however, if i just got flattened and couldnt do a damn thing especially because it was a rule misinterpretation not his army owning mine in a rock-paper-scissors game.

As others have said, it is a huge time sink on multiple fronts, and it is a three tier hobby. It takes hours just to assemble 1500 points and multiply that further just to paint it. When you actually play the game there goes several more hours. Anytime you get people so invested in their time, they are going to care.

That said, although tension may flair up every now and then, I think the vast majority of people playing this hobby enjoy it with some of their closest friends, in a relaxed, enjoyable environment. Everyone knows "that guy", that is a rules lawyer and takes it way too seriously, but they are rare.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Why do grown men get all vocal about a silly game where you kick a leather ball?

Because its fun, and there's actual money involved with that too. Serious money.

And there's our answer

Except there has never been a WH40k, as far I know, so the table top game wins out there.

I'll digest some of the responses in a bit, but one think I've realised is that when I play other people's armies, e.g Daemons, GK, SW, whatever, I have a lot more fun because I don't take the game
seriously/ just muck around.

When it's Dark Angels however, it's CAREFACE on. When it's Ravenwing, it's triple CAREFACE. Measurements become incredibly precise (for myself). Preferred enemy rolls are taken. Rules are not forgotten. I think three player turns in advance. When I lose (eventually) I'll probably be livid. What the hell is wrong with me?

If you want to witness serious unrequited nerd-rage; go jump on the D&D Next discussion boards or any number of Edition Wars blogs/fora.

AFAIK no murders yet (most don't have the physical prowess to follow-up).

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:


40k players in general all adhere to this stereotype, however.

Yeaaaaaaaaah, I'm gonna have to call you out on that.
For one thing, you can't say "in general all", it's either "in general" or "all." Do you mean to say that the general behaviour of the 40K gamers is to be superserious about the games,
or that all of them do this?
In addition, both of them are pretty broad-strokes. I get what you're trying to say, but the thing is that this is a forum, and people on the world wide interwebs tend to get vicious over things they
care about. My experience of stores has been rather different; games never got too vicious (unless you were playing TFG) and when tournaments did happen, there was also an emphasis on sportsmanship as well as
cut-throat gaming. I'm aware anecdotal evidence isn't the best, but there it is.

Hahaha I agree with Rotgut. I am incredibly competitive at monopoly.

I don't mind losing at 40k, i get frustrated if i make stupid mistakes or have a game of terrible roles, and very annoyed if someone is cheating against me, but if i get soundly beaten fair and square, especially if its a close game, i enjoy losing. I'd prefer to win but the result isn't important.

Its a matter of playing with people you enjoy playing with,

Monopoly is a board game sent by the Devil himself to break up families and tear apart friendships.

Its even worse than Settlers of Catan or Munchkin in terms of people raging over what happens or how badly you screw them over.
I decided im never playing monopoly again because of that. Ive litterally seen people start tearing apart the room and throwing fists because they landed on a Hotel-occupied Boardwalk 2 times in a row with a few railroad stops in between.

 Banicks wrote:

 Rotgut wrote:
Have you ever played monopoly?

Every time I play monopoly with people it turns into a 5 hour long fight to the death, it doesn't matter who is playing or what age they are. Monopoly ruins friendships.

The thing with 40k is that it takes a lot of time and effort and money to play which is why people take it so seriously.

lol Monopoly, my group of mates played a game of that one night and they weren't mates for a week. We've all sworn to never play that bastard of a game again. It breaks friendships.

Quoting this for truth. Monopoly ends relationships, it truly does. It is very, very srsbzns.

Any fandom has this sort of phenomenon though. Fans of video games get into "console-wars", forum-wars erupt over "best game" and such.