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One thing to worry about is initiative tests though. Played against one the other day and Jaws of the World Wolf'd it off the board no issue.

Trasvi wrote:
Ion Accelerator vs Heavy Burst Cannon is much closer than it might appear.

Here are the average wounds/hull points each causes at BS3:
TEQ NCHBC:1.333 IA :0.833 HBC :0.556 NCIA :0.278x OCIA :0.278x MEQ NCHBC:2.333 IA :1.250 HBC :1.111 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x GEQ NCHBC:5.000 HBC :3.333 IA :1.250 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x PM NCHBC:1.333 IA :0.833 HBC :0.593 NCIA :0.278x OCIA :0.278x MC NCHBC:1.667 IA :1.000 HBC :0.667 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x Tau NCHBC:5.000 HBC :3.333 IA :1.250 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x Ork NCHBC:5.000 HBC :3.333 IA :1.250 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x AV10 NCHBC:3.667 HBC :2.444 IA :1.500 NCIA :0.847 OCIA :0.639 AV11 NCHBC:2.333 HBC :1.556 IA :1.083 NCIA :0.782 OCIA :0.500 AV12 NCHBC:2.333 NCIA :0.694 HBC :0.667 IA :0.667 OCIA :0.361 AV13 NCHBC:1.222 NCIA :0.560 IA :0.250 OCIA :0.222 HBC :0.000 AV14 NCHBC:0.778 NCIA :0.380 OCIA :0.083 HBC :0.000 IA :0.000
(Where x = per hit with blast marker, and against vehicles assumes a hit with blast marker...)
It's important to note that the riptide benefits much more from Markerlights, and can fire snapshots with either of its weapon modes against flyers

We can see that the Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon is actually pretty damn good anti-tank - actually the most effective single weapon in our arsenal, even better than fusions in melta range.
I will probably be favouring IA for the ability to drop pie plates on interceptor, as I face a lot of terminators and you can hopefully get a large number of hits and save the nova charge for other abilities; but if you face a lot of flyers, NC HBC + skyfire and/or interceptor is a pretty deadly anti-air platform.

This is an interesting chart, thank you for that. I still think A) not really going to be using the Riptide for ant-tank. B) Ion Accelerator has much greater cahnce to wipe out a large number of marines in one shot (I'm assuming pretty much always blast).

 Kain wrote:
Only broadsides can have missile drones methinks. And would you all stop making me nostalgic for the days of cost efficient TMCs with affordable and versatile biomorphs? It makes me sad. :(

Actually riptides are the only ones to get shielded missile drones. They're also the only drones it can take, which means you have to take 1 if you wanna abuse the squadding rules for shadowsun cover shenanigans.

Also, blasting with the ion cannon gets hot, so you're gonna want stims to stop yourself exploding. It's an extra 35 pts but damn if that doesn't just make the riptide a beast against incoming fire.

Moridan wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Moridan wrote:
Is this correct?

Overload -> Gets Hot -> on a 1 take a wound, gets armor save
Nova Charge -> Nova boom -> on a 1 or 2 take a wound, no saves.

I believe you can take FNP if you have the upgrade. Of course, if youre like me making a FNP pain roll is something unheard of

FNP is only allowed for "unsaved wounds", correct? With both Gets Hot and the Nova reactor, you just take the wound, though with the first you are allowed an armor save which is a good deal with a 2+.

Your not correct about that. See the perils of the warp FAQ in the brb FAQ.

You definitely DO get to take FnP against wounds that did not allow saves.

Taiku.altergrund wrote:
So... this is probably talked to death over but after searching, i found all of 3 threads about the riptide.

Here are my questions:
1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
3: Is the HBC even viable?
4: Are the drones worth it?
5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results

1) Pro: Can't be penned, can make a smashy smashy in CC. Con: Not fearless. Can be subject to psy powers.
2) Nope.
3) Dunno what HBC is.
4) No - they'll get shot down, and force the Riptide to take an LD test, which may cause it to run really far backwards.
5) Nope.

 dbsamurai wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Only broadsides can have missile drones methinks. And would you all stop making me nostalgic for the days of cost efficient TMCs with affordable and versatile biomorphs? It makes me sad. :(

Actually riptides are the only ones to get shielded missile drones. They're also the only drones it can take, which means you have to take 1 if you wanna abuse the squadding rules for shadowsun cover shenanigans.

Also, blasting with the ion cannon gets hot, so you're gonna want stims to stop yourself exploding. It's an extra 35 pts but damn if that doesn't just make the riptide a beast against incoming fire.

You don't have to take any drones to attach Shadowsun to the Riptide. As a model that is not "always taken as a single model" is it always elegible to be joined by an IC, regardless of whether you started him out alone or not.

I suppose, if you wanted to take any of Shadowsun's drones, you'd the missile drones to keep the majority toughness T6, but that's about it.

I own three riptides and haven't really played too many games without all three if that tells you anything haha.... I run them as followed for all my games:

Ion Accelerator
TL SMS
Early Warning Override
=190pts

Now to answer some of your questions. I believe the MC is totally worth it. As now you have a model that can use 3 Smite attacks on the charge if need be and can ID characters, multi-wound models or destroy armed walkers. While I believe a HBC can be argued as viable, the IA is just OTT awesome. It is by far the most versatile weapon option, coming with three types of firing modes all of which have a 72in range. This then allows you to stay far away from the enemy and hit everything on the board. I personally feel as if the secondary upgrades are a waste, the TL SMS is beast. Nova for 8 TL st 5 ap 5 ignore cover no LOS shots with 30in range. It's like having another fire warrior squad on the table that is standing next to a sensor tower and has two markerlights on the target. It's drones just are not worth it at all. Take 1 or 2 and if 1 dies then you have to take a test and could flee. Riptides are already durable as is, FNP can be great, but is OTT. Interceptor is a must at 5pts per riptide. Especially if you're playing in tournament games. Lots of deep striking terminators or drop pods with dreads or marines and demons too. Being able to place a st8 ap 2 large pie over a sq coming on from reserve is irreplaceable.

Furthermore, they're fast, as they can jump 2d6 in assault like the rest of your suits. And can possibly jump 4d6 when nova is activated. Speaking of nova, I have found myself using nova more often than not. Usually all three of my riptides roll to nova in the first three turns. I'd say on average I fail one of three per turn. Still the only way that any of my opponents have been able to effectively kill one of my riptides is from sweeping it in combat. Honestly, I have yet to lose one from shooting at all. Close....but no cigar With markerlight support, the riptides only get more nasty, and since they have fire support, they still fit very nicely with the rest of the natural meta for tau.

I took a three riptide list to an 1850 3 rd tourney last weekend and placed 1st. To give you an idea of what the list looked like, heres the list:

Shadowsun
Bodyguard w/ 2 fusion (not TL) and target lock x2 1 shield drone, 1 w/ neuro-chip

Riptide w/ IA,TL SMS, EWO x3

Kroot (10) x4

Pathfinders (5) x3

Broadsides (2) w/ Vtrackers (skyfire), TL SMS, hvy rails, 2 shield drones x2

RailHead w/ Longstrike, TL SMS, Sub rounds, Sensor Spines

I played Demons, Orks and Eldar. All three games my riptides were just absolutely devastating and none of my opponents had answers. The entire tournament I lost 1 riptide to a combat with mega nobs. The riptide ID'd two nobs, but it was a multi charge and I lost two broadsides and their drones and fled off the board. Nevertheless, I'd say it comes down to three key things. Range. Speed. Firepower. My advice, BUY THREE!

As aforementio0ned, the HBC IS a good option and the points are a savings. Good job on the analysis BTW, Trasvi.

I use the HBC and love it, preferred it over the IA.

I also think that you shouldnt charge unless needed. I've noticed that you end up taking a lot of wounds to charging if you do it too often.

Such great feed back! Thanks!

Taiku.altergrund wrote:
So... this is probably talked to death over but after searching, i found all of 3 threads about the riptide.

Here are my questions:
1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
3: Is the HBC even viable?
4: Are the drones worth it?
5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results

1) Pro
2) yes its a D6 i win button
3) yes
4) yes there T6 with a quad gun
5) solo killed 3 dakka jets still had all 7 wounds

4) no......they're not....? They're half the shots, not twinlinked, doesn't have skyfire, only a lousy BS2, even.....so really nothing like a quad gun.

So for the risk of failing a leadership test and running away you get a BS2 Autocannon? doesn't seem worth it.

Taiku.altergrund wrote:
So... this is probably talked to death over but after searching, i found all of 3 threads about the riptide.

Here are my questions:
1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
3: Is the HBC even viable?
4: Are the drones worth it?
5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results

1) Current meta, yesx2000 times. Walkers are severely gimped right now and the only ones that do anything at all are walking gun platforms with near-table range. Even then, usually not worth it as theyre expensive as hell anyway. MCs take a lot more to kill, but yes they can die to random flak that a walker is immune to. Sucks, but better than that single Lascannon 1shotting my walkers from across the table.

2) Nova is a 3+, which is a pretty good odd. If you are running the IA, you probably dont need it unless something is giving you some heat and you want that 3+ invul. Going to Str9 Ordnance isnt that big a deal since its either annihilating small vehicles or you are wasting your shot trying to get a lucky 6 to pen AV14.

3) HBC is totally viable, its problem is it depends on the nova charge. Without the buff its only a medicre shot, with the buff its crazy. I'd rather run 2 of these than 2 IAs.

4)Drones are not worth it one bit. If they were BS3 and Twinlinked on their own, i could consider it. But they are neither, cost a fortune, and are easily lost forcing leaderships. The only way i will take them is if im running a buffcommander with the riptide and i'll take 1, protecting the crap outta it for defensive purposes. Taking thrusters on the commander gives Hit and Run to the unit which runs off the highest initiative, and the drones are I4.

5) I use him every time i run tau, either allied or main. Hes great for two reasons: 1) Punches reallly hard with both weapons, so he causes a lot of damage and 2) hes big and scary and draws attention and is DAMN HARD TO KILL if you arent an idiot with it. He has drawn so much attention that really shouldnt have gone to him its hilarious.

Also, as for the FNP thing, any wound that doesnt allow armor invul or cover saves is still considered an "unsaved wound" because the only way your model even takes a wound is to receive an "unsaved wound" in the first place. Long as it doesnt cause ID then you can take it nomatter where the wound came from.

orkgoffrocker wrote:
5) solo killed 3 dakka jets still had all 7 wounds

Haha, yeah ... you go straight to the ignore list.

1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
Its definitely worth the investment. Big and scary. If the enemy shoots it, he will not shoot the rest of your army.

2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
A game lasts only 5 (or more) turns. Therefore, its not too risky to use it.

4: Are the drones worth it?
No, too expenive. I'd give him FnP.

5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results
Next time...

I've used him 5 times now and lost about 4 wounds during those games :-| He is a beast. I can't imagine what running two or three is like but safe to say I wouldn't get my regular Thursday game...

Kill count is silly as well - running him with HBC and SMS against mostly IG (So lots of men, plus smatterings of AV14 LR) so Nova charging for ripple fire on my SMS is just horrible to guys who rely on cover. It's quite horrible but you can between the HBC and your SMS take out full squads of IG a turn depending on squad size and support. He's taken out two LR too but that was quite lucky to be honest.

Still the thing is awesome and properly supported, nigh on unstoppable

Quark wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:
5) solo killed 3 dakka jets still had all 7 wounds

Haha, yeah ... you go straight to the ignore list.

There drones so if the riptide has "Interceptor and Skyfire"!!!!!! THEY GET it to for free.
sorry i will Translate that for you Herpa. Derp derp derp. Herpa herp Derp!

I'm pretty sure that's not right...

As the rules currently read, drones in a squad (with or without drone controller) don't benefit from Interceptor/Skyfire. There is some contention there regarding Skyfire, but they definitely do not gain interceptor.