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So... this is probably talked to death over but after searching, i found all of 3 threads about the riptide.

Here are my questions:
1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
3: Is the HBC even viable?
4: Are the drones worth it?
5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results

Ah the old MC vs walker debate. Generally walkers are better at taking lots of little hits as any AV worth a damn can no sell nearly any small arms weapon. However mcs can walk off smaller numbers of big hits that usually wreck walkers outright. Right now with hull points and a meta dominated by mid strength shots and necrons monstrous creatures tend to be a bit more survivable than walkers in their weight category.

That answers 1 question

Overall I like the Riptide. Its fast, survivable, and hits hard. Its basically what the hammerhead was before the awful multitracker nerf, only better. The overcharged ion accelerator is devastating to just about anything it hits and can even be used to hunt heavy armor with the nova charge. It can wreck heavy armor at close range thanks to the multi-melta, ripple gun and smash. With the stimulant injector, it can absorb and enormous amount of punishment, and with boost it can cover incredible distances. It also never takes dangerous terrain test because of MC rules so feel free to place it anywhere.

Biggest problem is it competes with Crisis Suits, which you don't want to go light on. It would have fit much better in heavy support.

Ok. So that clearly answers question 1, but leaves many others others to be resolved.

ive had a lot of luck with one, its a bit of a bullet magnet but its also really hard to kill. Most of the time i lost wounds to Nova Charge and Gets Hot more than anything else, and its surprisingly mobile. Plus, it can fire both weapons on overwatch so its a nice anchor to supporting fire. Being MC makes it extra hard to kill. HBC is nice against horde armies and xenos, but against marines you want the Ion Accelarator. Drones I havent tried yet, but i assume since they make it even harder to kill and more firepower it cant be bad.

Also, Nova charge can be a risk, but its always worth it. Getting a 3++ or supercharging your gun, or if you have a box of terminators baring down on you the 4d6 thrust is great. Its the flexibility it has with the 5 wounds that make it worthwhile.

Did i also mention it looks cool? Because it looks really cool

1: As others have answered in this meta its decent
2: Not really, and you don't have to use the charge. and if i recall you can FNP the wound right?
3: haven't tried it yet. doesn't look worth it.
4: no as now you are a non fearless squad, and having a riptide walk itself off the board is just sad.
5: 3 total games. no losses. they survived through the whole game every time as a fire magnet while taking out chunks of the enemy with marker light support. activated nova about 4 times only failed 1 time. FNP is awesome.

I've faced against them, and they're pretty sick. Nova does, occasionally cause wounds, but the fact that you're T6, Sv2+ and have W5 much more than makes up for that. They're also much more difficult to kill than if they were a vehicle, once again, because of W5 and Sv2+/5++, and the fact that they MSM.

Meanwhile, they've got PLENTY of guns, and can take advantage of all the new tau rules (ignoring night-fight, interceptor, army-wide overwatch, using markerlights to ignore cover with a MEAN blast template, etc.), which means they're putting down a pretty serious amount of firepower.

Yeah, they're expensive, but you get more than what you pay for, especially since the armies that are strongest against riptides in specific are the weakest against tau in general.

That said, of the half a dozen I've seen so far, most of them have been gundam models, and the people fielding them have no desire to buy the actual models, which makes me want to punch faces.

Oh, also, compare them to other monstrous creatures. For a modest price hike over the cost of anything in the tyranid codex you get something that's more durable and much more mobile, and, with synergies, can do a lot more damage.

I think a cool tactic would be to jump them forward of your gun line and draw off elements of your opponent's army. If you combine them with plasma suits, the suits could hide behin the Riptide, jump out to fire and then jump back behind.

Tau are a battleforce army... Take one of everything and you're straight. Spammy lists are going to miss something. Like, when sternguard drop in to kill the riptide, your plasma suits with EWOs will rapid fire them into oblivion whereas a skyfiring Riptide with EWO will keep the heldrakes off of your suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drones are worth it so you can attach a commander to them with the puretide chip to make the Riptide have tank hunters and to TL his shots (Command and Control node).

Suddenlly, 3 TL str 7 shots with skyfire and interceptor and tank hunters has your opponent's attention... with a drone firing the quad gun with Tank hunters also

Well for now if you give a riptide a missile drone and a stim pack and take shadowsun with a command link drone, for less than 400 points you have 4 models that can basically spit out 12 s5 ap5 and 2 s8 ap1 melta shots a turn with impunity and can't be killed. Mathhammer says that shadowsuns reroll with the cl drone and the fnp of the stims means that gets hot and nova reactor together will amount to 1.5 wounds...over 6 turns.

Add to that a 4+ cover save in open terrain and a 2+ save in cover and fnp, and you're nigh invulnerable to incoming small arms. That's just stock.

Another take is to give it an ion cannon and a plasma rifle and the interceptor special rule and stim to allow blast templates on hordes and heavy damage against deepstrikers (who tend to have armor that the ion cannon and plasma rifles conveniently defeat.

Couple that with excellent mobilty and good toughness and (assuming you model it properly so that you can actually hide it behind something) you have a really good deal for a dreadnight that works properly.

Hell, in a nid army the scariest thing is always the MC's to the base part of our brains because they're big and nasty and usually they have the stats to back it up. Riptides are our proper MC's, they're our mawlocs and oldschool carnifexes rolled into one: excellent support that can still draw fire and soak it up.

Only broadsides can have missile drones methinks. And would you all stop making me nostalgic for the days of cost efficient TMCs with affordable and versatile biomorphs? It makes me sad. :(

They are worth it but they are not the be all and end all of units. I would take one for sure, two wouldn't be awful but three is really pushing it as you would want some crisis suits. I feel the ion cannon is always the option worth taking as 8 s6 shots is not really that impressive, if they had ap2/3 then maybe. I rarely overcharge as it is not worth taking the wound. The missile drones are pretty expensive for what they do, I would leave them at home.

 Kain wrote:
Only broadsides can have missile drones methinks. And would you all stop making me nostalgic for the days of cost efficient TMCs with affordable and versatile biomorphs? It makes me sad. :(

Riptides get a super special Shield/Missile Drone as part of their wargear

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Only broadsides can have missile drones methinks. And would you all stop making me nostalgic for the days of cost efficient TMCs with affordable and versatile biomorphs? It makes me sad. :(

Riptides get a super special Shielde/Missile Drone as part of their wargear

Which is a shame since you will never take them.

You're seriously asking if a T6 W5 2+/5++ jump MC with great guns, a nova reactor and access to Interceptor, skyfire and a bunch of other stuff for under 200 pts base is good?

 Kain wrote:
Only broadsides can have missile drones methinks. And would you all stop making me nostalgic for the days of cost efficient TMCs with affordable and versatile biomorphs? It makes me sad. :(

Watch the nomenclature carefully. There are Missile Drones...and Shielded Missiles Drones. They are different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Taiku.altergrund wrote:
So... this is probably talked to death over but after searching, i found all of 3 threads about the riptide.

Here are my questions:
1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
3: Is the HBC even viable?
4: Are the drones worth it?
5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results

1. It is a Pro.
2. No. Do it every turn. EVERY turn.
3. Yes, but it's not the best choice. It isn't a bad one though. Depends on if you have the points, but Ion Accelerator is probably more worthy.
4. Drones are a risk. they can make you run. The Riptide is NOT fearless. So one drone down and you're rolling morale checks. Being near a board edge whern this happens can be bad. As long as you're comfortable with the risk, it's okay. I take one Shielded Missile Drone and have paid for it before, but the benefits outweighed the risk. 2 is kinda spendy anyways so i am not so sure I'd take two. But again, this comes down to risk aversion.
5. I use two in my current list. I am 9-0. The victory Margins were not especially close in any of them. I don't think you need three. I do credit the performance of Krootox and Pathfinders a great deal for those wins (for reasons i wont get into here, but feel free to scope me out at my 40KUNORTHODOXY blog if you wanna get into that.

My advice in the end: it's an $85 model, and you definitely CAN fight without one. But you probably won't be disappointed if you have the money and want to spend it that way.

One big thing that a lot of people forget when you compare a MC to a walker is that aa MC can contest an objective, not being a vehicle

Add to that that the two most resilient MCs in the game (DK and Riptide) are also highly mobile, you'll have a hard time keeping them off your objectives

I seriously don't know what GW is thinking when it creates 2+ 5++ mobile MCs ... Anybody else thinking it's weird to see a volley of Krak missile completely plink off a big chunk of metal ?

It would make Tyranids cry, but real bugs don't cry

 Jancoran wrote:
2. No. Do it every turn. EVERY turn.

A slight fix here... do it every turn... UNLESS you're on 1W left and you don't see yourself needing the 3++.
Probably a rare situation unless you have an opponent consistently gunning for it with a lot of low AP fire - which oddly enough can be a good way of putting wounds on it with things like Sniper and Poisoned weapons.

I agree with everything else Jancoran put wholeheartedly.

Phanixis wrote:
Overall I like the Riptide. Its fast, survivable, and hits hard. Its basically what the hammerhead was before the awful multitracker nerf, only better. The overcharged ion accelerator is devastating to just about anything it hits and can even be used to hunt heavy armor with the nova charge. It can wreck heavy armor at close range thanks to the multi-melta, ripple gun and smash. With the stimulant injector, it can absorb and enormous amount of punishment, and with boost it can cover incredible distances. It also never takes dangerous terrain test because of MC rules so feel free to place it anywhere.

Biggest problem is it competes with Crisis Suits, which you don't want to go light on. It would have fit much better in heavy support.

- Which is precisely why GW put it into Elites (so that Tau players can buy the new Broadsides and the new Riptide and use both!)

They are incredible, with skyfire and interceptor they are ridiculously good. I played against three of them yesterday and the only reason i got 6 points off him was that I didn't run flyers, being able to interceptor and overwatch in your turn (as they have two different weapons) is terrifying

TanKoL wrote:
One big thing that a lot of people forget when you compare a MC to a walker is that aa MC can contest an objective, not being a vehicle

Add to that that the two most resilient MCs in the game (DK and Riptide) are also highly mobile, you'll have a hard time keeping them off your objectives

I seriously don't know what GW is thinking when it creates 2+ 5++ mobile MCs ... Anybody else thinking it's weird to see a volley of Krak missile completely plink off a big chunk of metal ?

It would make Tyranids cry, but real bugs don't cry

Would you say they are the most resilient?, yes they both can have good moverability (JSJ for the riptide and 30inch shunt for the Dreadknight) but I would say a FMC is a little more resilient, yes theres no 2plus save (unless forewarning and grimoure goes off on a Daemon FMC) but with 6's to hit with most units armour save or invul or cover save plus if we are going to compare MC's I would compare to my DP's or LoC with psyhic powers and greater rewards they are pretty darn tough.

I played against two the other day, one failed its get hot roll three times in a row!, unlikey but he did!, he was killed by a DP in combat after the warriors were killed, the other was enfeebled that smash'ed to death by another DP. They did manage to shoot down my iron arm'ed DP though but he was put out the front as a meat shield!.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
2. No. Do it every turn. EVERY turn.

A slight fix here... do it every turn... UNLESS you're on 1W left and you don't see yourself needing the 3++.
Probably a rare situation unless you have an opponent consistently gunning for it with a lot of low AP fire - which oddly enough can be a good way of putting wounds on it with things like Sniper and Poisoned weapons..

Playing Tyranids, I don't see myself ever shooting at it with something that will ignore its 2+ barring the odd Smite or Psychic Shriek, so Nova Charging for the 3++ doesn't seem all that necessary against Nids or any other army lacking in AP2, like Orks or Necrons.

I played against two the other day, one failed its get hot roll three times in a row!, unlikey but he did!

I failed my nova roll 3 times in a row AND failed all 3 FnP last weekend... My buddy was pretty amused lol

Is this correct?

Overload -> Gets Hot -> on a 1 take a wound, gets armor save
Nova Charge -> Nova boom -> on a 1 or 2 take a wound, no saves.

Moridan wrote:
Is this correct?

Overload -> Gets Hot -> on a 1 take a wound, gets armor save
Nova Charge -> Nova boom -> on a 1 or 2 take a wound, no saves.

I believe you can take FNP if you have the upgrade. Of course, if youre like me making a FNP pain roll is something unheard of

1) MC is definite pro. Can contest, can claim area cover, can't get shaken.

2) Actually, it is sorta. Well, you shouldn't be using it every turn, in anycase. Regular overcharging the ION is usually just as good as Nova overcharge, and overcharging the shield is only worth it in very niche situations, same with the 4d6 thrust. Ripple firing a SMS is pretty awesome, though.

3) It would be, if he wasn't BS3. But Ion is pretty clearly better.

4) No. The drones are awful. There's no way to choose how you allocated wounds, so they're crap for tanking, the increased dmg output isn't worth 25 pts.

5) I have used him in every game. He's pretty boss, but he's almost worth more as a "target". People really want to kill him, and that's really really hard.

 Ailaros wrote:


That said, of the half a dozen I've seen so far, most of them have been gundam models, and the people fielding them have no desire to buy the actual models, which makes me want to punch faces.

I wondered why this upset you? Were the sizes off?

1: Is being an MC a pro or con?
It's a pro in some cases, a con in others. Pro cause a lucky shot can't kill you, con because poisoned weapons

2: Is the nova reactor to big a risk?
Yes and no, you don't have to use it

3: Is the HBC even viable?
If that's what you need your riptide to do

4: Are the drones worth it?
Nope. I don't want my MC taking leadership tests when a drone dies

5: Have any of you with a riptide, amd if zo, what were the results
My opponents cry. I table GK players in 2-3 turns, and other similiar results. I only run 2. Does help I've played my tau for 4+ years.

Ion Accelerator vs Heavy Burst Cannon is much closer than it might appear.

Here are the average wounds/hull points each causes at BS3:
TEQ NCHBC:1.333 IA :0.833 HBC :0.556 NCIA :0.278x OCIA :0.278x MEQ NCHBC:2.333 IA :1.250 HBC :1.111 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x GEQ NCHBC:5.000 HBC :3.333 IA :1.250 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x PM NCHBC:1.333 IA :0.833 HBC :0.593 NCIA :0.278x OCIA :0.278x MC NCHBC:1.667 IA :1.000 HBC :0.667 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x Tau NCHBC:5.000 HBC :3.333 IA :1.250 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x Ork NCHBC:5.000 HBC :3.333 IA :1.250 NCIA :0.417x OCIA :0.417x AV10 NCHBC:3.667 HBC :2.444 IA :1.500 NCIA :0.847 OCIA :0.639 AV11 NCHBC:2.333 HBC :1.556 IA :1.083 NCIA :0.782 OCIA :0.500 AV12 NCHBC:2.333 NCIA :0.694 HBC :0.667 IA :0.667 OCIA :0.361 AV13 NCHBC:1.222 NCIA :0.560 IA :0.250 OCIA :0.222 HBC :0.000 AV14 NCHBC:0.778 NCIA :0.380 OCIA :0.083 HBC :0.000 IA :0.000
(Where x = per hit with blast marker, and against vehicles assumes a hit with blast marker...)
It's important to note that the riptide benefits much more from Markerlights, and can fire snapshots with either of its weapon modes against flyers

We can see that the Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon is actually pretty damn good anti-tank - actually the most effective single weapon in our arsenal, even better than fusions in melta range.
I will probably be favouring IA for the ability to drop pie plates on interceptor, as I face a lot of terminators and you can hopefully get a large number of hits and save the nova charge for other abilities; but if you face a lot of flyers, NC HBC + skyfire and/or interceptor is a pretty deadly anti-air platform.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Moridan wrote:
Is this correct?

Overload -> Gets Hot -> on a 1 take a wound, gets armor save
Nova Charge -> Nova boom -> on a 1 or 2 take a wound, no saves.

I believe you can take FNP if you have the upgrade. Of course, if youre like me making a FNP pain roll is something unheard of

FNP is only allowed for "unsaved wounds", correct? With both Gets Hot and the Nova reactor, you just take the wound, though with the first you are allowed an armor save which is a good deal with a 2+.