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 Palindrome wrote:

 Mr Hyena wrote:

Nope. But they are new blood at least.

That has to be by far the stupidest way to decide upon a ruling government.

Funny how it turns out to be the way the public voted then, eh? Maybe the 3 main parties should take note of their own ineptitude and then they won't end up in this avoidable position again.

The best thing to do with current reality of politics is to protest vote.

If this was a parlimentary election Labour would be in power, so no, thats not how the people voted.

It'll probably be labour (with people unsurprisingly forgetting what they did to the economy) who wins overall, but parties like the UKIP will get a lot more seats, which is very telling of the public's confidence and an outright failure of the main parties to adapt.

UKIP don't have policies, they have a bunch of complaints like you would hear from a pub bore. Getting into power would reveal their essential uselessness.

What is a "pound store nazi"? I know what a nazi generally is, but the pound store throws me a touch.

A store where things are really cheap, usually a pound.
Hence the name.

We have dollar stores here so I imagine its the same idea, but I'm not getting exactly what you mean.

Are we referring to people that have an almost Fascist relationship with said Pound Stores, or are we talking about something like a wanna-be Fascist.

Oh it's like a cheap knock-off nazi...
Yeah wannabe facist.

That's what I was getting at, but there's a double meaning in that, because this is their logo:



Compare and contrast:

Mr Hyena wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 Mr Hyena wrote:

Nope. But they are new blood at least.

That has to be by far the stupidest way to decide upon a ruling government.

Funny how it turns out to be the way the public voted then, eh? Maybe the 3 main parties should take note of their own ineptitude and then they won't end up in this avoidable position again.

The best thing to do with current reality of politics is to protest vote.

1. Are you implying the causal factor in the UKIP's election is "new blood", as opposed to their being an extremely xenophobic conservative party, both of which are elements that traditionally thrive during times of economic hardship? Because that would be a very silly implication.
2. Protest voting is really not the best thing to do, unless there is an actual party set up designed to only ask for protest votes. Otherwise, your arbitrary protest vote is likely going to go to one of the members of the lunatic fringe, and that's a bad scene.

Ahtman wrote:What is a "pound store nazi"? I know what a nazi generally is, but the pound store throws me a touch.

I assume the equivalent of a Dollar Store Nazi; ie. a cheap, watered down or knockoff version of the real thing.

For a bit of context, Labour made over twice the gains of UKIP.

Also, come a general election, people will be far less willing to vote for a racist party with uncosted silly policies such as increasing the defence budget by 40%, doubling the prison population or offering to pay for every child to be educated privately, all while massively lowering the higher tax brackets and raising the lower one.

Well that last one is a bloody stupid idea...

 purplefood wrote:
Well that last one is a bloody stupid idea...

You could effectively increase the defence budget by 40% simply by pulling out of our foreign adventures*



* Note - I don't know the actual costs/savings but it would certainly be cheaper

Half the reason we have armed forces is to get into foreign adventures.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

You could effectively increase the defence budget by 40% simply by pulling out of our foreign adventures*

By the end of next year that will happen anyway *

*aside from small training teams


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Half the reason we have armed forces is to get into foreign adventures.

It think its more like 98%, the other 2% is to act as standby security guards for the Olympics.

'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.'

I don't like UKIP myself, but to call them closet racists or fruitcakes is the last refuge of the desperate. They are a legitimate (although cranky) political party in the UK. You defeat them by engaging and taking their ideas apart, not accusing them of having mental health issues, which seems to be the default mode of political criticism these days.

A lot of people in the UK have concerns with where the EU is heading these days and about immigration. I may not agree with them, but in a democracy, you respect their views.

 Sturmtruppen wrote:
Well, another name I like to call them is BNP-lite. But although the BNP try to present themselves as a respectable party and fail hard, UKIP present themselves as a respectable party and are succeeding. In terms of policy, they are de-facto racist, as their latest publicity states that they want to get out of the EU so they can repel and expel immigrants.

IIRC, UKIP dont want to stop all immigrants, just the ones that dont want to work and are happy living on benefits or providing no support for society, those that want to work in areas where jobs are needed such as doctors or I imagine builders, they are welcome. It is not racist to want to stop more people coming into Britain, its common sense because we all know how the media are but when people read every day about no jobs, more migrants etc, of course they are going to want to stop it, doesnt make them a racist.

However tbh a politician is a politician so I dont really care about UKIP at the time being because most likely they will do what every other politician does, lie.

And of course to have selective immigration policies will prove a challenge so it would be interesting to see how that plays out, perhaps adopt something similar to Australia?

My opinion is that immigration is a problem, I guess it is because of my area and life experiences but I guess that makes me a racist.

 Albatross wrote:
'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.'

Some of us have been challenging UKIP since the massive influx they got from the BNP and the EDL a couple of years ago. There is a long history of anti-racism and anti-fascism in this country as can be seen in such events like the Battle for Cable Street against Mosely's blackshirts, and the vast majority of the public don't buy the scapegoating of the far right and will never support such things, thankfully.

 dæl wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.'

Some of us have been challenging UKIP since the massive influx they got from the BNP and the EDL a couple of years ago. There is a long history of anti-racism and anti-fascism in this country as can be seen in such events like the Battle for Cable Street against Mosely's blackshirts, and the vast majority of the public don't buy the scapegoating of the far right and will never support such things, thankfully.

UKIP and the 1930s blackshirts are worlds apart. It was reported that even the labour party, and of course, the tories, have had to kick out people for their BNP style views. That doesn't mean that UKIP are planning for the fourth reich.

They've struck a chime with the British public, so instead of attacking them, people should be asking where did their votes come from and why?

 unmercifulconker wrote:


IIRC, UKIP dont want to stop all immigrants, just the ones that dont want to work and are happy living on benefits or providing no support for society, those that want to work in areas where jobs are needed such as doctors or I imagine builders, they are welcome. It is not racist to want to stop more people coming into Britain, its common sense because we all know how the media are but when people read every day about no jobs, more migrants etc, of course they are going to want to stop it, doesnt make them a racist.

However tbh a politician is a politician so I dont really care about UKIP at the time being because most likely they will do what every other politician does, lie.

And of course to have selective immigration policies will prove a challenge so it would be interesting to see how that plays out, perhaps adopt something similar to Australia?

My opinion is that immigration is a problem, I guess it is because of my area and life experiences but I guess that makes me a racist.

We already have a points system for non EU migrants, and regarding EU migrants, they are massively less likely to claim benefits than British citizens. The Polish or West Indians or whoever didn't cause the mess we are in, the financial sector and political lobbying did.

The only thing that worries me is the far right side of things, I have no idea what UKIP's real agenda would be if they got into power, just like any other party really.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 dæl wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.'

Some of us have been challenging UKIP since the massive influx they got from the BNP and the EDL a couple of years ago. There is a long history of anti-racism and anti-fascism in this country as can be seen in such events like the Battle for Cable Street against Mosely's blackshirts, and the vast majority of the public don't buy the scapegoating of the far right and will never support such things, thankfully.

UKIP and the 1930s blackshirts are worlds apart. It was reported that even the labour party, and of course, the tories, have had to kick out people for their BNP style views. That doesn't mean that UKIP are planning for the fourth reich.

They've struck a chime with the British public, so instead of attacking them, people should be asking where did their votes come from and why?

A lot of their votes are coming from those disaffected with the tories lurch to the centre, the BNP, and first time voters. There are some who have moved from Labour but looking at the results of the local elections Labour have been taking far more of the vote than they did at the last general (a considerable number of which will be those returning after a Lib Dem vote). The problem with the "British public" is they are told what to think far too much by the likes of the Mail and the Sun, a lot actually think Europe has a ruling on the correct angle of a banana's bend.

I certainly don't think UKIP are planning a Forth Reich, I do however see far too much of the same faces supporting UKIP as support the EDL or used to support the BNP. It's this umbrella of acceptable racism that worries me.

Yeah, people want something different and I have to admit I used to like the Daily Mail when I was young but as my knowledge grew things have naturally changed, I mean I still like the odd giggle and rage read but my eyes are more open to the kinds of messages it sends out and like you said it is the likes of the Mail and the Sun which have drove peoples opinions. The media create a certain view of the world.

Would you mind saying who supports the UKIP and BNP? I would be interested to find out who they are as this affiliation should be stomped out.

 dæl wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:


IIRC, UKIP dont want to stop all immigrants, just the ones that dont want to work and are happy living on benefits or providing no support for society, those that want to work in areas where jobs are needed such as doctors or I imagine builders, they are welcome. It is not racist to want to stop more people coming into Britain, its common sense because we all know how the media are but when people read every day about no jobs, more migrants etc, of course they are going to want to stop it, doesnt make them a racist.

However tbh a politician is a politician so I dont really care about UKIP at the time being because most likely they will do what every other politician does, lie.

And of course to have selective immigration policies will prove a challenge so it would be interesting to see how that plays out, perhaps adopt something similar to Australia?

My opinion is that immigration is a problem, I guess it is because of my area and life experiences but I guess that makes me a racist.

We already have a points system for non EU migrants, and regarding EU migrants, they are massively less likely to claim benefits than British citizens. The Polish or West Indians or whoever didn't cause the mess we are in, the financial sector and political lobbying did.

There are also strict rules on how soon after entering the country even EU nationals can claim any benefits. You must be working in the UK for 3 months before having any right to anything. Unless you think that people are coming to the UK with the idea of working hard for three months then claiming benefits.

The thing is that the idea of people coming from all over the EU to the UK to claim our benefits with no want to work is in the heads of UKIP and some papers. THIS is why they are called racist. People have tried to point out the nonsense of what they are saying and this has failed. So we, in the great British way, ridicule them. See the reason naziisum and the black shirts did not take hold in the UK. We have a great tradition of ridiculing extreme groups. The same goes for far left communist groups.

UKIP are a joke who are playing to a very small group. They will never get in to power because most people disagee with them.

Also Farage is a nob.

Steve steveson wrote:

UKIP are a joke who are playing to a very small group. They will never get in to power because most people disagee with them.
Also Farage is a nob.

They got a lot more votes than they would if they were a true fringe party. The problem is that most people are almost completle ignorant of politics. On purely political grounds the UKIP manifesto is a complete joke which would result in the further ruin of the economy, lower taxes + increased spending =profit???, yet (presumably) millions of people voted for them.

They won't get into power on their own but they may get into a coalition government and that is what I find so worrying.

Farage is indeed a nob.

Was just reading through the 2012 Manifesto and I have to say, they certainly seem to have the best ideals, more power to communities? Improved public transport? Halting cuts to the NHS and other public services? Criticising those in power and their large wallets? Who wouldnt want this?

Of course, judgement shall be held until they put words to action.

 unmercifulconker wrote:

Would you mind saying who supports the UKIP and BNP? I would be interested to find out who they are as this affiliation should be stomped out.

UKIP claim that former membership of other far right groups such as the BNP or NF mean people are not allowed to become members, but there have been some high profile exceptions.

John Brayshaw was exposed as being Chairman of UKIP's Vale of York branch and the BNP's National Treasurer at the same time.
Trevor Agnew was a UKIP parliamentary candidate and a well known BNP activist, he was expelled from UKIP in '99 and then allowed to rejoin, after which he pledged his support to the BNP in the '03 elections.
Andrew Moffat was a UKIP parliamentary candidate, and was a member of the National Front.
Martyn Heale is Chairman of UKIP's Thanet South branch, and was also a member of the National Front and stood as an NF candidate in Hammersmith in the late 70s.
Plus this week, Alan Ryall was disowned by the party for previous membership of the BNP, but remained on ballot papers as it was too late to remove him.


Also, you may find this report quite interesting about far right support in the UK.

And Farage is famously allegedly quoted as saying " we will never win the n-word vote, the n-s will never vote for us" by Alan Sked, UKIP's original leader.

 dæl wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:

Would you mind saying who supports the UKIP and BNP? I would be interested to find out who they are as this affiliation should be stomped out.

UKIP claim that former membership of other far right groups such as the BNP or NF mean people are not allowed to become members, but there have been some high profile exceptions.

John Brayshaw was exposed as being Chairman of UKIP's Vale of York branch and the BNP's National Treasurer at the same time.
Trevor Agnew was a UKIP parliamentary candidate and a well known BNP activist, he was expelled from UKIP in '99 and then allowed to rejoin, after which he pledged his support to the BNP in the '03 elections.
Andrew Moffat was a UKIP parliamentary candidate, and was a member of the National Front.
Martyn Heale is Chairman of UKIP's Thanet South branch, and was also a member of the National Front and stood as an NF candidate in Hammersmith in the late 70s.
Plus this week, Alan Ryall was disowned by the party for previous membership of the BNP, but remained on ballot papers as it was too late to remove him.


Also, you may find this report quite interesting about far right support in the UK.

Ewww, thank you.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Who wouldnt want this?.

How will all these things be paid for, especially when UKIP want to lower taxes? The answer of course is that they can't be. UKIP may pretend that leaving the EU will free up billions but in the scheme of things the sums saved are really not that great (less than 1% of government expenditure) and there will also be severe financial implications if we do leave the EU.