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The Tallaran riders got 2W in their update, so its not a mistype. They are also T4 in their book, 1A (but 2CCW and non-special lance so..) lack inv, and are 5+. It seems that DKoK just have the first viable rough rider. They really arent that powerful, with the same problems most RR had before. However, krak grenades means that they can go hunting tanks after they kill a squad, which is nice.

I'm going to just come out and say this:
Carcass shells are awful. Yes, this is a shocker, but let's just compare it to a normal shell:

Wounds per hit vs MEQ:
Normal: 5/6 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to fail save = 5/18
Carcass: 8/9 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to fail save, 5/6 chance gun won't overheat = (5/18)(8/9)=20/81
Normal superior

Wounds per hit vs GEQ
Normal: 5/6 chance to wound = 5/6
Carcass: 35/36 chance to wound, 5/6 chance gun won't overheat = 175/216
Normal superior

Because of gets hot, you're generally paying points for a decrease in efficiency. There are a few minor situations where you win out (guardsmen in area terrain, tau stealth suits) but on the whole, they're a poor choice, plus they cannot ID T3 models. It's not even better against things behind an aegis as barrage does that for you normally. Bleh, disappointing. If you want amazing S5 blasts, go for the Thudd. I'm having a lot of trouble making a good list actually, there's really not a whole lot of good anti-tank and the little there is competes with the fun stuff like Thudds or engineers. Grenadiers are roughly comparable in terms of damage output to fire warriors, which is cool. A basic unit of 10 does a fair amount of damage to MEQ and, even if they are overpriced, storm chimeras aren't awful. Let's face it - you're playing guard; one way or another the enemy will get first blood anyway.

I dunno, this list is a lot weaker than the siege list (which is admittedly amazing in 6th with the new heavy artillery and their awesome combined squads). It seems like it's missing that little sprinkle of magic that makes everything work. Now, as allies they're fantastic but that's another story.

Don't the carcass shells retain AP4? I could be mistaken on that, my book is at home right now.

The big thing with the Carcass shells however is ignoring cover. While the normal blast will ignore intervening terrain, ignoring cover entirely is a different matter, and allows you to always fire directly (and thus more accurately) as long as you can see your target at all without having to worry about giving them cover saves.

Though you are right in that the Gets Hot! potential does impact efficiency.

Eyjio wrote:
There are a few minor situations where you win out (guardsmen in area terrain, tau stealth suits)

But these aren't really minor situations. Light infantry with a cover bonus in area terrain might be less common than MEQs, but it's one of the hardest problems for an IG army to deal with. You can't shoot them effectively (lots of bodies with a 2+ cover save), and you can't assault them effectively (since IG have few units that can do anything but die in close combat). Carcass shells solve that big problem for a very low price.

Also, you're only looking at heavy mortars. Griffons with carcass shells have two big advantages:

1) Re-roll to hit = re-roll "gets hot", taking it down to a 1/36 chance to fail.

2) Unlike heavy mortars Griffons can take carcass shells and then choose every turn which one to fire. So for a token point cost you keep the same standard shells but also gain the option to fire no-cover shells if you're in a situation where you need them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Don't the carcass shells retain AP4?

Yes. They're AP 4, so the fire warrior example is wrong.

lemme try my hand at the math here

Wounds per hit vs MEQ:
Normal: 5/6 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to fail save = 5/18
Carcass: 8/9 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to fail save, 5/6 chance gun won't overheat = (5/18)(8/9)=20/81
Normal superior

Yup, looks right.

Wounds per hit vs GEQ
Normal: 5/6 chance to wound = 5/6
Carcass: 8/9 chance to wound, 5/6 chance gun won't overheat = 20/27

Carcass should have 35/36 chance to wound, so that should end up being 350/432 so ~0.81 vs 0.83 of the normal shells, very slight advantage to normal shells, but if any cover comes into play the Carcass shells have it.

Wounds per hit vs Tau Fire Warriors:
Normal: 5/6 chance to wound = 5/6
Carcass: 35/36 chance to wound, 1/2 chance to fail save, 5/6 chance gun won't overheat = 175/432
Normal superior

Since the Carcass shells retain AP4, they should be identical to the GEQ example.

 Peregrine wrote:
1) Re-roll to hit = re-roll "gets hot", taking it down to a 1/36 chance to fail.

I thought that you didn't get to reroll the "gets hot" when you twin-link a blast weapon. My understanding was that you could reroll the scatter, but the gets hot roll was a separate affair that you only rolled once. Am I incorrect on this?

Also, the 1/36 chance assumes that you reroll every "gets hot" result and accept every other result, regardless of whether it hits or misses. I suspect that most people don't use their reroll that way.

Corollax wrote:
I thought that you didn't get to reroll the "gets hot" when you twin-link a blast weapon. My understanding was that you could reroll the scatter, but the gets hot roll was a separate affair that you only rolled once. Am I incorrect on this?

The "gets hot" rule says that for weapons that don't roll to hit if you have a re-roll to hit (BS 6+, twin-linked, etc) you can re-roll failed "gets hot" rolls.

Also, the 1/36 chance assumes that you reroll every "gets hot" result and accept every other result, regardless of whether it hits or misses. I suspect that most people don't use their reroll that way.

That's not how "gets hot" works with blast weapons. Before firing the weapon at all you roll a D6, and on a 1 it gets hot. On any other result you place the template and resolve it as a normal shot (including scatter). The Griffon's re-roll allows it to re-roll "gets hot" results, and then independently re-roll the scatter dice if you don't like the result.

Yeah, I got a bunch of that wrong, sorry guys. It's fixed now. As for rerolling Gets Hot!, I totally missed that, I thought that only applied when it was twin linked. Does that change much? Yes, a little; the carcass shells do get a slight edge. That said, firing directly negates a lot of the reasons I would bring a barrage weapon in the first place, especially when I'd consider tanks a near-necessity in this list due to the huge lack of durable anti-tank otherwise. Your chance to miss with a Griffon firing indirectly is 4/9 I reckon. Firing directly that goes down to what, 11/27? An increase of 3.7% seems fairly poor IMO when that also exposes you. So, carcass shells are entirely not worth it with Heavy Mortars and maybe worth it on Griffons. I don't see how light infantry could get a 2+ cover save against a barrage weapon unless something happens like it went to ground in a really big forest and also had stealth from somewhere. Even then, that'd only be dangerous if there was also an objective in that forest. Maybe I'm missing something? I guess it's an okay upgrade for Griffons though if you have 5 points kicking around somewhere. I guess it would also be good if you were in night fight (though that also negates grenadiers a little too). How does this list deal with flyers either? For a list that will be facing lots of flyers and plenty of AV13+, it sure doesn't get a lot of ways to deal with them. Odd.

Ahh, my mistake. I had missed the very last sentence in the USR. Does this then mean that a model firing a blast weapon with BS6 or higher could reroll the "Gets Hot" test, even though an exceptional BS score doesn't let you reroll the scatter on a blast weapon?

I don't see this combination particularly often, I hope you can forgive my misunderstanding. And thanks for the clarification.

Eyjio wrote:
That said, firing directly negates a lot of the reasons I would bring a barrage weapon in the first place

I think you guys need to go re-read the rules for barrage weapons in 6th. Firing directly like in 5th is gone completely, replaced by two options:

Within the weapon's range and with line of sight to the target you subtract your BS from the scatter distance.

Inside minimum range or without line of sight to the target you "fire indirectly" (which is stupid fluff-wise, but that's what it's called) and don't subtract your BS from the scatter distance.

There is no ability to choose between the two, and in both cases you determine cover from the impact point, always hit side armor, etc.

I don't see how light infantry could get a 2+ cover save against a barrage weapon unless something happens like it went to ground in a really big forest and also had stealth from somewhere.

GTG in even basic 5+ area terrain = 3+ cover save. With stealth that gives you a 2+ cover save. Yes, units with stealth are somewhat rare, but they're also one of the hardest types of units for IG to remove.

Even then, that'd only be dangerous if there was also an objective in that forest.

The point is that there will be an objective in that forest, because the whole point of taking those 2+ cover save units is to get a durable objective holder. If you're facing Harker squads/Eldar rangers/scouts/etc you can almost guarantee that they'll be camped on an objective.

How does this list deal with flyers either?

Quad gun, its own flyers (Thunderbolt and Avenger), allies, spammed Rapier/HWS shots. Take your pick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corollax wrote:
Ahh, my mistake. I had missed the very last sentence in the USR. Does this then mean that a model firing a blast weapon with BS6 or higher could reroll the "Gets Hot" test, even though an exceptional BS score doesn't let you reroll the scatter on a blast weapon?

Yes, BS 6 lets you re-roll "gets hot" (in fact BS 6 is explicitly given as an example of how you'd re-roll "gets hot" for a blast weapon). It also lets you re-roll the scatter dice on a blast weapon, since having a re-roll to hit (which BS 6+ gives you) explicitly allows you to re-roll the scatter dice (see the "blast" rule).

Why do I need to reread the barrage rules? My maths accounted for the subtracted BS (it's a multiplicative factor of 33/36, really not a whole lot) and I said you had to expose yourself to fire directly, hence it wasn't worth it. Normally you'd castle a flank, denying yourself and the enemy LOS, correct? So it's precisely what I said.

I was about to say that I could only think of scouts that would get a 2+ cover save, then I remembered there are a few things that modify cover as well like mysterious terrain, etc. Yeah, I guess you do need Griffons with carcass shells then, so elites slot would be something like 2x Griffon w/ carcass, Hydra squadron of 2? I really can't think how else this list can reliably hurt flyers. Even with a quadgun, that's being fired with at most BS4 and a single Night Shroud bomb could ruin a vehicle castle so you really need flyers dead. Spamming shots at them isn't super effective in any case. Thunderbolt is... meh. 160 points for 2 TL autocannons and a TL lascannon will dent a flyer, but if it comes on first it'll never get a shot off. Avengers are great anti-infantry but this list does that by the dozen already. Tricky. I wish engineers were still troops, they'd definitely be my go-to choice at their current cost. Heck, if I wasn't so worried about flyers I'd definitely add a 10 man squad. Now, all I need is to find a decent Zone Mortalis stand in...

Eyjio wrote:
Why do I need to reread the barrage rules?

Because you're talking about "direct" and "indirect" fire like it was in 5th, a choice of firing modes, instead of like it is in 6th, just an awkward way of saying "you don't get to subtract BS from scatter".

Even with a quadgun, that's being fired with at most BS4 and

BS 4 twin-linked is a 90% chance to hit. What more can you want?

a single Night Shroud bomb

So don't let them set up a bombing run. Stay near the table edges, and put models behind your vehicles so there's no legal spot for the flyer to end its move after flying over the parking lot. Once you've tried to use bombs you'll realize very quickly that it's hard to deliver them effectively, especially against an opponent who is anticipating them and moves to counter the bombing run.

Avengers are great anti-infantry but this list does that by the dozen already.

They're also not terrible at AA, especially if you use their secondary hardpoints for autocannons.

Yeah sorry, I still think of most of the rules as modified 5th ed ones. BS4 is 8/9 to hit, S7 is 4+ to glance but then the flyer you shoot at (assuming it's not a Night Shroud which is 5+ to glance) will almost certainly evade. I reckon that's ~1 HP, not really close to enough when it's plausible they have 3+ of these things. You're quite right about bombing runs, I've never even seen anything which uses bombs. I guess they can cope though, if you can cover the exposed side of your castle. I'm just spoiled because I mostly use Necrons so these flyers seem comparatively poor. Anyway, I'll have a think about it.

 Peregrine wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:
while I really like arty, what do you guys usually do about all the fliers out there? I've tried a mock battle with a standard necron list with wraiths + night scythes + doom scythe and annhiliation barges and got pretty beat up (also didn't help that I kept scattering off the wraithstar...)

Allies, probably. Hydras aren't great, but ally in a Sabre platoon and Vendetta/Vulture and consider taking an Avenger or Thunderbolt in your heavy support slots and you should be able to handle AA.

You know that never occurred to me. I thought the do were IG so I never considered to ally them in. Think they can share orders?

 sudojoe wrote:
You know that never occurred to me. I thought the do were IG so I never considered to ally them in. Think they can share orders?

The DKoK lists (assault brigade, siege army, armored battlegroup) can give orders to each other, but are separate from codex IG and the non-DKoK variant lists.

I've had a quick look through the new IA book and here are some of my thoughts.

There are some good and some bad parts in this new Krieg list for me.

Losing the die hard (stubborn) rule. No more grinding my platoons down, lose 4+ more men in an assault and its goodbye squad.
Gaining the no morale check to shooting casualties benefits artillery and infantry advances, no doubt that they will get there.
and immune to fear. I like that.

Orders. Duty unto Death. re-roll morale tests. only the company commander can issue this and seeing as the range is 12" then its probable that the squad will be within 12" of the regimental banner and get a free re-roll anyways. The chance of getting fearless is really remote and can't be counted on.

Get back in the fight. I have always found that this order and Iron discipline do the same thing. Why do you need one when you have the other. the only benefit is ordering on a squad gone to ground behind a defense line for the 2+ cover save. (personally i would have preferred if they got rid of iron discipline and kept die hards)

Dispersed advance. could be useful on death riders, but they get to re-roll dangerous tests anyways, or crossing some terrain pieces such as craters, ruins.

Without mercy. This could be very useful when charging non fearless or SKNF squads at initiative 4-5 and below. inflict enough wounds on the charge and add d3 to your sweeping advance roll, increases the chance of a sweeping advance.

Some nice choices in the war gear section. as listed in previous posts.

The HQ choices are really restricted and at a high price. no commissar General, lose the death rider command squad to fast attack. maybe another named character or two would have been good but would that fit the fluff?

Refractor field on commander. FINALLY. really missed that in siege list, despite it being in one of the illustrations in IA 6 that the company commander was wearing a refractor field

Engineers in Elites, understandable. most opponents are pretty sick of me drilling up with a squad of engineers on their home objective and claiming it.

Griffon in Elites. WT* forgeworld, is this a way for them to sell more griffon models? this should be with he rest of the tracked ordnance batteries. Or is it to similar to the siege list if the heavy mortar and thudd are in the elites slot agian.

Russ forward command tank. (command tank? should this be in HQ?) an extra BS, i'll pay for that. And it lets indirect fire become direct fire, getting more pie plates where they need to be.

Hydra. YES! the BEST AA unit in the game. maybe should be in heavy support.

Rapier laser destroyer. I have never used one (as i dont own a model).

Infantry squads

cost more than in siege list. include new rule, minus old rule, has krak grenades ( i seldom ran mine with them as they died so much and never used them)
There is no combined squads rule on the basic infantry squad. Is this a typo? a 50 man blob with FNP was legendary.
no Commissar option in normal infantry squads (so no stubborn option).

Grenadiers are a lot cheaper. And so they should be, at 18 points each in the siege list when you couldn't put them in a 10+ capacity transport or deepstrike/infiltrate/outflank them.
Now at 120 points for 10 and you can put them in a transport it opens up a mechanised Krieg list, not just a mechanized imperial guard list.

storm chimera. 20 points more than a normal chimera, but has added bonuses. wouldn't be bad using it as a mobile fire support/ light AT role i suppose. Same feeling as griffon, that forgeworld have included it in the list to increase sales.

centaur. (don't own a model. My krieg always footslog)

Drill, The new Hades rules dulled it down a fair it. I might still run mine and see how it goes.

Hellhound. Anyone else noted that the hellhound/banewolf/devildog side armour is listed as 10? it's12 in every other codex.

Death riders. Seem better now. a bit cheaper lost their 6++ save ;( (i once had a single ridemaster halt an advance on a bridge for 3 turns, taking 4 invulnerable saves in a row against chaos marines), but gained 4+ armour, FNP 6+ and an extra attack and wound. But with the loss of Die hards if you charge a fearless or SKNF squad and don't wipe them out in the charge your pretty much screwed next round with sweeping advance, if the squads not wiped. I run these mostly for sh*ts and giggles, they really put off your opponent.

Salamanders. finally something with the scouts rule in a krieg list. though i don't mind that nothing has scouts in a siege list as it suits the fluff.

Heavy weapons platoon. got insanely CHEAPER 5 points less than before and you DON'T need a platoon command squad to field them. loses the combined squad option though to get them a re-roll on orders.

thunderer and russ squadrons. no change. ahhh where would the imperial guard be without russ's

ordnance tank battery. in here as a mobile artillery piece. to make it a mechanized list. should still have griffon in here i reckon.

Artillery battery. should be named medium artillery battery. This suits the fluff a bit i suppose, easily transported siege guns instead of the harder to transport earthshaker carriages. I don't mind these in heavy support. it feels like they should be here.

Air support. the addition of these flyers is good. can get a good variety of payload from them. ground pound or AA or AT they do seem a bit overpriced compared to other imperial flyers.

The list feels like it was either written by someone who want to run mechanized Krieg but not get into hand to hand combat, or someone who has had it handed to them by an opponent running mass infantry/artillery tactics and wants to change the infantry advantage.

I'll play a few games with it, try some ideas and get back to everyone with the findings.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
Losing the die hard (stubborn) rule. No more grinding my platoons down, lose 4+ more men in an assault and its goodbye squad.

Note that this list doesn't have combined squads, so no unit is over 10 models. If you're losing combat by 4+ you probably don't have a squad left anyway, so having the last 1-2 models break from combat doesn't really matter. In fact, it probably helps you since you can get back to shooting the unit they were in combat with.

Orders. Duty unto Death. re-roll morale tests. only the company commander can issue this and seeing as the range is 12" then its probable that the squad will be within 12" of the regimental banner and get a free re-roll anyways. The chance of getting fearless is really remote and can't be counted on.

They're within 12" when the order is given, but after they assault something they may not be (or the banner might be dead, or you might expect the command squad to die next turn, etc).

Get back in the fight. I have always found that this order and Iron discipline do the same thing. Why do you need one when you have the other. the only benefit is ordering on a squad gone to ground behind a defense line for the 2+ cover save. (personally i would have preferred if they got rid of iron discipline and kept die hards)

\

Iron discipline lets you regroup as normal when you're below 25%. Get back in the fight lets you make an additional attempt to regroup, in the shooting phase, and without any of the penalties normally given to regrouping. Even if you aren't making use of the other benefits (un-GTG, etc) the second try at a failed regrouping attempt before a unit runs off the table is extremely valuable.

Dispersed advance. could be useful on death riders, but they get to re-roll dangerous tests anyways, or crossing some terrain pieces such as craters, ruins.

It's not about dangerous terrain, it's about getting through difficult terrain without slowing down and failing to get into charge range.

Griffon in Elites. WT* forgeworld, is this a way for them to sell more griffon models? this should be with he rest of the tracked ordnance batteries. Or is it to similar to the siege list if the heavy mortar and thudd are in the elites slot agian.

It's done because otherwise heavy support is too crowded. Remember how in codex IG lists nobody takes Griffons because "cheap and efficient" is not getting enough out of your LRBT/Manticore/Medusa slots? Well now Griffons are in a different slot and they might actually see some use.

(command tank? should this be in HQ?)

No, because taking a tank as your mandatory HQ would mean that nobody ever takes the infantry HQs.

Hydra. YES! the BEST AA unit in the game. maybe should be in heavy support.

Not even close to the best anymore. The inability to shoot at ground targets killed the Hydra, it's a never-take in heavy support for codex armies and I'm not sure even moving it to elite and taking Vendettas and Sabre guns out of the list is enough to make the Hydra viable.

Hellhound. Anyone else noted that the hellhound/banewolf/devildog side armour is listed as 10? it's12 in every other codex.

That would be a typo.

But with the loss of Die hards if you charge a fearless or SKNF squad and don't wipe them out in the charge your pretty much screwed next round with sweeping advance

So what? Once you've used your lances a rough rider squad isn't worth very much anyway, getting the whole squad killed in the next round just means that the enemy unit isn't locked in combat and can be shot at.

Also I would like to point out that with the respawning Infantry Platoons you may actually want the squads to die after a round or two of melee rather than grinding them down slowly. With the move though cover order and no 25% casualties tests there is a good chance you will get your infantry where they are supposed to be as a lump group, do a bunch of damage, and then die as a mass group in the next 2 assault phases.

Yeah, unfortunately the Hydra's lack of ability to engage ground targets has really killed its useability despite being an excellent AA unit (especially if your opponents are running IA flyers like a Nightwing and their 2+ jink save is ignored ). It's too situational.

I *really* hate, and don't really understand, why GW made the decision to have Skyfire enabled weapons only able to snapfire at other targets, and then coupled the USR that fixes that with a very powerful and unnecessary ability to fire at units entering from reserves.


Oh well, that's another matter.

One thing I have noticed however, between the 20pt price increase for the Storm Chimera, the LR Annihilator not being costed correctly, and a couple other issues, running a mechanized list with sufficient long range AT (especially something other than a handful of BS3 autocannons on tin-can chimeras) is very difficult to fit in without majorly cutting on troops.

No, because taking a tank as your mandatory HQ would mean that nobody ever takes the infantry HQs.

the tank being 185+ points would make people take infantry HQ. And orders can make or break games when heavy weapons or defense lines are involved.

Not even close to the best anymore. The inability to shoot at ground targets killed the Hydra, it's a never-take in heavy support for codex armies and I'm not sure even moving it to elite and taking Vendettas and Sabre guns out of the list is enough to make the Hydra viable.

If your shooting at ground units with your hydra it means the rest of your army is wiped out or out of range ( i have blown up rhinos across the board rolling 6's to hit when other guns were out of range/LOS). even if your opponent doesn't field flyers the amount of armies that have skimmer only vehicles (necrons, eldar, tau, dark eldar) hydras a really useful. The Auto targeting system is gold, no jink saves. flyers and skimmers can still jink the others shots.

Death riders are 3A at 15 points once they use their lance. They can still clean up another 1-2 marines after they charge. Also, krak grenades on cavalry= lol. Kill a squad, survive, and go fighting some vehicles when everyone thinks they are useless. Making hunting lance a specialist weapon was silly though. Not sure if typo, because every other lance in the game isnt (shining spears, rough riders, power lance).

Im buying some lizardmen cavalry from my friend to use as my cavalry for DKoK. Much cheaper and more unique than horses. Esp considering the cost of dkok riders....

hellhound has to be a typo. Been av12 side forever.

command tank at 185 or a 5 man guardsmen squad for 100. Id take the tank still, no questions.

Hydra is just worthless. But in dkok you are so cost effective that there are very few fliers you have to worry about. Quad gun usually can take care of one, and then BID on lascannon teams usually can do sufficient number of hits to at least jink if not kill another flier.

 zephoid wrote:
and then BID on lascannon teams usually can do sufficient number of hits to at least jink if not kill another flier.

Or Rapiers. Amusingly the Rapier isn't all that far behind Sabre guns for damage-per-point (though obviously losing interceptor hurts) and is way better against ground targets. And T7 with meatshield wounds is a lot more durable than T3 with nothing to protect against instant death.

And then of course you have your own flyers, bringing an Avenger or Thunderbolt is cost-effective firepower and does a lot to help with AA.

 Vaktathi wrote:
One thing I have noticed however, between the 20pt price increase for the Storm Chimera, the LR Annihilator not being costed correctly, and a couple other issues, running a mechanized list with sufficient long range AT (especially something other than a handful of BS3 autocannons on tin-can chimeras) is very difficult to fit in without majorly cutting on troops.

TBH I don't think it's that big a problem. You have Rapier batteries, bastion breacher Medusas, and BS 4 Vanquishers in your elite slots. You're not getting as much firepower as a Sabre spam codex list, but what do you expect from a list built around elite infantry instead of hordes of guns?

DOOMONYOU wrote:
the tank being 185+ points would make people take infantry HQ. And orders can make or break games when heavy weapons or defense lines are involved.

Orders are kind of redundant in this list, you already have near-immunity to morale problems and you're not taking static gun blobs like a codex list so spending 100+ points on a command squad to occasionally twin-link two melta guns is a complete waste. I'd much rather pay 35 points over a standard Leman Russ to move it out of my crowded heavy support slots and replace a point-sink HQ.

If your shooting at ground units with your hydra it means the rest of your army is wiped out or out of range

Or you just don't have any flyers to kill (for example, turn 1). Meanwhile if they DO have flyers the Hydra has to shoot second (no interceptor) and doesn't have the durability to survive a flyer alpha strike. Obviously the DKoK one is a lot better than the codex version since it doesn't compete for heavy support slots, but I'm still not convinced it's a good idea to take them.

Death riders are 3A at 15 points once they use their lance.

4 if you count some hammer of wrath hits. power sword or axe on the ridemaster can greatly improve their after first charge effect.

zephoid wrote:
and then BID on lascannon teams usually can do sufficient number of hits to at least jink if not kill another flier.


Or Rapiers. Amusingly the Rapier isn't all that far behind Sabre guns for damage-per-point (though obviously losing interceptor hurts) and is way better against ground targets. And T7 with meatshield wounds is a lot more durable than T3 with nothing to protect against instant death.

Pity that "fire on my target" has been taken from the orders. That was also good for shooting at flyers. If that was coupled with a rapier it would be devastating.

Or you just don't have any flyers to kill (for example, turn 1). Meanwhile if they DO have flyers the Hydra has to shoot second (no interceptor) and doesn't have the durability to survive a flyer alpha strike.

Keeping hydras in reserve, especially if going second, with an astropath for the reserve mod kept them safe and guaranteed a pretty good chance of them entering play second turn. Pity this list has no reserve roll modifications. Dulls this tactic down a fair bit, but still has the same chance of arriving from reserve if your using a flyer as anti air.

Hm, sounds like an interesting Krieg list that is more mobile than the Siege one.

Certainly would be interested in having a proper look at the list, though its the only thing in IA12 that I'm interested in....maybe if FW released it with an updated Siege in a DKoK Codex?

Peregrine wrote:
TBH I don't think it's that big a problem. You have Rapier batteries, bastion breacher Medusas, and BS 4 Vanquishers in your elite slots. You're not getting as much firepower as a Sabre spam codex list, but what do you expect from a list built around elite infantry instead of hordes of guns?

Primarily I meant in terms of tank based options, Rapiers are excellent of course (but aren't really "mechanized" units), however the BS4 spotter tank is really expensive if you're not using it to spot for ordnance weapons (35pts is a lot just for BS4) and the extra 100-140pts you're spending (assuming you're going mechanized grenadiers) for the Storm Chimera upgrades over basic chimeras (most of which aren't worth paying for really, like EA) make it hard to fit in sufficient volume of fire, especially if you also want any AA capability.

Granted if you're not trying to go all mechanized, spamming Rapiers is a wonderful option

 stormwell wrote:
Hm, sounds like an interesting Krieg list that is more mobile than the Siege one.

Certainly would be interested in having a proper look at the list, though its the only thing in IA12 that I'm interested in....maybe if FW released it with an updated Siege in a DKoK Codex?

I was told on FW facebook that the Siege list is gettign a 6th Ed update, free PDF even, but with the avent of IA3 2nd edition, I have doubts.

Uh, I think the telekinesis primaris power has strikedown.

Just throwing that out there

Carry on.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 stormwell wrote:
Hm, sounds like an interesting Krieg list that is more mobile than the Siege one.

Certainly would be interested in having a proper look at the list, though its the only thing in IA12 that I'm interested in....maybe if FW released it with an updated Siege in a DKoK Codex?

I was told on FW facebook that the Siege list is gettign a 6th Ed update, free PDF even, but with the avent of IA3 2nd edition, I have doubts.

FW is bound to include an updated 6th Ed version in future Siege of Vraks books, so thats not really all that surprising.

Just from what I've heard of the new Assault Brigade list it sounds like it could be a better fit for a WW2 era RAF Regiment theme army I've got planned, though I can't justify dropping £40 on a book just for one thing (mainly because I don't have the money to hand). Course if FW did a DKoK Codex with all the various Krieg lists for £20 then I'll pick that up in a heartbeat.

This list looks fun. I'd like to see some people do some batreps using it.

 ansacs wrote:


I agree I love the centaur both model and rules. It is the ultimate looks bad on paper until you realize you can completely shield them behind a thunderer tank or really any vehicle you happened to bring. Who needs HP when the enemy can never see you. I even like how they hull mount the heavy weapon the squad brings as mortars and lascannons turn into shoot as you move.

Please look at the entry again. They removed the Hull Weapon Mount (additionally, see their last "mini-FAQ" on their Facebook wall where they confirm the removal in the Siege Regiment Update aswell).

Completely ruins my plans to use a Centaur with a heavy flamer and two flamers.

The guy sitting in the front with his heavy weapon is useless now! Why the did they remove this even though the model is in some way BUILT around this feature??