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I remember back in my day... the 3rd edition core rules had army lists in the back for every force, and a page at the end listing "variants" that amounted to force organization swaps and wargear restrictions/substitutions.

Wow, did I actually just pull a "bittervet" moment? Dang. Never thought that would happen.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
I think the Iyandan supplement is just going to be a way of selling lots of Wraithknights/guards/lords.

And the start of GW gouging people that want to run elite armies instead of just putting it in their goddamn $60 dexs.

I'm sorry, but GW started gouging players wanting small, elite armies when they dropped power armour grey knight squads to 5 man kits for the same price as 10 man kits. Probably even before that.

This argument is just old and tired. We know already.

So them doing it now at a morally worse scale is acceptable?

 Ravenous D wrote:
So them doing it now at a morally worse scale is acceptable?

No, I'm mostly referring to 'And the start' part of your statement. GW have been doing it for a good while now.

Lets just hope its as useful as death from the sky. That way we won't have to spend money on it.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
The old sub codexes, such as the Black Crusade (IIRC the name) had the Ulthwe Strike Force, which was just a few pages. However, that book wasn't the same price as the Eldar codex.

Codex: Armeggedon, Codex: Craftworld Eldar, Codex: Eye of Terror, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels.

I think those were all of the older mini-dexes.

Arm had: Speed Freek Orks, Steel Legion, Salamanders and Black Templars

EoT had: Eldar Ulthwe Strike Force, Lost and the Damned, Cadians and Space Wolves 13th Company.

Don't forget all the Chapter Approved "Lists" like the Blood Axes, variants for Orks, and a few others.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
The old sub codexes, such as the Black Crusade (IIRC the name) had the Ulthwe Strike Force, which was just a few pages. However, that book wasn't the same price as the Eldar codex.

Codex: Armeggedon, Codex: Craftworld Eldar, Codex: Eye of Terror, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels.

I think those were all of the older mini-dexes.

Arm had: Speed Freek Orks, Steel Legion, Salamanders and Black Templars

EoT had: Eldar Ulthwe Strike Force, Lost and the Damned, Cadians and Space Wolves 13th Company.

Don't forget all the Chapter Approved "Lists" like the Blood Axes, variants for Orks, and a few others.

Also Codex Catachan, which was both a supplement to Codex Imperial Guard and a Jungle Warfare supplement.

 -Loki- wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
The old sub codexes, such as the Black Crusade (IIRC the name) had the Ulthwe Strike Force, which was just a few pages. However, that book wasn't the same price as the Eldar codex.

Codex: Armeggedon, Codex: Craftworld Eldar, Codex: Eye of Terror, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels.

I think those were all of the older mini-dexes.

Arm had: Speed Freek Orks, Steel Legion, Salamanders and Black Templars

EoT had: Eldar Ulthwe Strike Force, Lost and the Damned, Cadians and Space Wolves 13th Company.

Don't forget all the Chapter Approved "Lists" like the Blood Axes, variants for Orks, and a few others.

Also Codex Catachan, which was both a supplement to Codex Imperial Guard and a Jungle Warfare supplement.

It was a good day to be had back then, when you could not only represent your favorite legion/clan/craftworld/chapter/regiment with fluff, and rules!

Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement. As long as they're self contained and only refer back to one core codex, I can't see a problem with army supplements again. I was rather fond of them.

I can see the argument from a competitive standpoint, and not just balance - people who like to own all of the books to 'know their enemy' will be annoyed at having even more (expensive) books to buy so they feel they are staying competitive. But GW has made is abundantly clear 6th edition isn't a competitive game.

 -Loki- wrote:
Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement. As long as they're self contained and only refer back to one core codex, I can't see a problem with army supplements again. I was rather fond of them.

I can see the argument from a competitive standpoint, and not just balance - people who like to own all of the books to 'know their enemy' will be annoyed at having even more (expensive) books to buy so they feel they are staying competitive. But GW has made is abundantly clear 6th edition isn't a competitive game.

I just want the return of my Slaanesh list, give me back Sonic Guns/Blastmasters/Doomy siren on everything and I'll be good.

But so long as this isn't primarily just a scenario/fluff book. It'll be good, I'm surprised by the hostility as well. Course then again I play IA units liberally and fight others who do so as well, so I guess multiple lists doesn't bother me.

 -Loki- wrote:
Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement.

IMO the problem is that it looks like it's stuff that should have been in the codex. I'd be happy if GW released supplements in the years between codices for each army so everyone gets a steady supply of new releases, but this feels more like "great news, now you can have double the fun and buy two GW products at once!!!!!!!".

 Peregrine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement.

IMO the problem is that it looks like it's stuff that should have been in the codex. I'd be happy if GW released supplements in the years between codices for each army so everyone gets a steady supply of new releases, but this feels more like "great news, now you can have double the fun and buy two GW products at once!!!!!!!".

Who said Day 1 DLC is just for games, they're taking it to the next level!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
The old sub codexes, such as the Black Crusade (IIRC the name) had the Ulthwe Strike Force, which was just a few pages. However, that book wasn't the same price as the Eldar codex.

Codex: Armeggedon, Codex: Craftworld Eldar, Codex: Eye of Terror, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels.

I think those were all of the older mini-dexes.

Arm had: Speed Freek Orks, Steel Legion, Salamanders and Black Templars

EoT had: Eldar Ulthwe Strike Force, Lost and the Damned, Cadians and Space Wolves 13th Company.

Don't forget all the Chapter Approved "Lists" like the Blood Axes, variants for Orks, and a few others.

Also Codex Catachan, which was both a supplement to Codex Imperial Guard and a Jungle Warfare supplement.

It was a good day to be had back then, when you could not only represent your favorite legion/clan/craftworld/chapter/regiment with fluff, and rules!

Totally forgot those ones! I wasn't even thinking of WD articles. I used to like the Flesh Tearers.

 Peregrine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement.

IMO the problem is that it looks like it's stuff that should have been in the codex. I'd be happy if GW released supplements in the years between codices for each army so everyone gets a steady supply of new releases, but this feels more like "great news, now you can have double the fun and buy two GW products at once!!!!!!!".

I'm still of the opinion it was simply because the majority of the release is Iyanden based anyway. I mean, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if they don't release other supplements between codex releases, but this just feels more like a 'this is our best release window' situation. If, instead, there was a couple of dual kit aspect warrior boxes, I wouldn't have been surprised at all seeing a Beil Tan supplement instead for the same reason.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement.

IMO the problem is that it looks like it's stuff that should have been in the codex. I'd be happy if GW released supplements in the years between codices for each army so everyone gets a steady supply of new releases, but this feels more like "great news, now you can have double the fun and buy two GW products at once!!!!!!!".

Who said Day 1 DLC is just for games, they're taking it to the next level!

As someone with a weakspot for DLC, I can see this being good. I'm actually hoping for lots of supplements, hopefully accompanied by a model kit or two.

I have no problems with this supplemental stuff. As long as they don't go to overboard, it should be fine.

I'm actually excited to see how the Iyanden book changes the core codex, and i'll be interested in seeing more variation in the opponents I play. One Eldar player might go Iyanden, another might stay with the regular codex, etc.

Im just curious what the new D-Scythe is...the new Wraithguard weapon..

 Peregrine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Which is why I'm surprised at how much revulsion there is to the Iyanden supplement.

IMO the problem is that it looks like it's stuff that should have been in the codex.

That's some great logic there. Judging a book on its contents when literally all you know about it is that it contains artwork, scenarios and rules.

But do please elaborate on your opinion of the contents

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/05/more-eldar-info-housekeeping/#more-6921

Sadly if the people at 3++ and Heresy Online are at all correct we aren't looking at an overhaul of the Iyanden ruleset so much as additional fluff for the craftworld. Hope they are wrong, but its GW so I'm not getting my hopes up.

If all it is is additional fluff and some scenarios, then I don't see much complaining after it releases. It's hardly going to be required reading.

Also makes me eager for a Salamanders supplement.

If its just fluff and some scenarios, it seems kinda obscene that it's the same cost as the core codex.

There have been 3 whfb fluff books, empire, skaven and high elves. They are all rather terrible. For $50 GW had better have upped their game 500%.

So does anyone know if it will be possible to run wraith lists without the Iyanden codex supplement? I'm trying to save up some cash for wraithknights, and hoping I don't have to worry about a SECOND $60 dollar codex for one army.

Someone mentioned a Spiritseer HQ choice allowed Wraithguard as Troops, over in the Rumours thread I believe

Here's some speculation: You're screwed if you don't want to buy a $400 dollar ipad.

Oh sorry, that wasn't speculation at all!

 gpfunk wrote:
Here's some speculation: You're screwed if you don't want to buy a $400 dollar ipad.

Oh sorry, that wasn't speculation at all!

So you're confirming that codices and rulebooks are going to be digital only as of the Eldar release?

Source?

I man, that's a fething dumb statement to make. Supplement books have, so far, gotten physical releases, and nothing yet indicates the Iyanden book will be different. Codices and Rulebooks are, as usual, the only required material for playing the game, and no statement from GW has yet said physical books are going.

Try trolling another thread, maybe?

Well I can count the number of Iyanden players out there on one hand, so I'm not entirely sure it's a money grabbing move.

I like the idea of army book supplements- if they create more competitive army variants, I'm all for them.

I'd rather they didn't make more competitive varianet. I'd rather they just created themeatic variants.

Rumour is (as per the 3++ link above) the Iyanden book won't include an army list anyway. Just fluff and scenarios. Again, something I'm completely fine with - competitive players won't have anything to complain about, since they won't 'need' to buy it, and fluff players will just have the price to complain about, as per normal with GW.

 -Loki- wrote:
So you're confirming that codices and rulebooks are going to be digital only as of the Eldar release?

You'll have to forgive the obtuse nature of my original post. It was more a general complaint that any digital products that GW DOES release (example: digital versions of the codexes and supplements) are available for tablet PC use only. I'd prefer to have an auto-updating codex on my home computer or laptop rather than shell out money for another piece of hardware.

I assume that the new Eldar and Craftworld books will have a digital version available only for those platforms.

They will.

However, you're hardly 'screwed' if you don't buy an iPad. I mean, unless the entire gaming community has been screwed for decades, not having self updating books on their PCs. You just carry on buying hardcopy books or pirating PDFs.