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I have increased the cost of most of these rules and made the drawbacks more severe. i hope this is at least slightly more balanced than before.

Ranks of Iron: 2Models in a unit with the Ranks of Iron special rule gain +1 Toughness for each model with this special rule that is in base contact with them (to a maximum of 5 toughness and are Fearless,models with this special rule are slow and purposefu,l may not embark on a transport of any kind and may not enter from reserves until at least Turn 5, and may not enter the battlefield using a drop pod.

Lord of Iron- can be given to any Sergeant for 100 points. As long as at least one model in the unit has the Lord of Iron special rule, all models in base contact with that model have a 6+ invulnerable save and have Relentless, Hammer of Wrath, and, crusader, but also have slow and purposful and must make a morale check or fall back if they are not in base contact with at least five other other models in their unit.

Arsenal of Iron- allows your tactical marines to replace their bolters with combat shields and chainswords for 60 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power lances for 70 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power mauls for 70 points, or with combat shields and power swords for 70 points. in addition, terminator squads come with thunder hammers and storm shields by default and cannot take any heavy weapons other than CML and TH/SS,

Doctrine of Steel, Replaces Chapter Tactics - troops and elite unites in your arm may purchase the the Ranks of Iron special rule for 40 pts per model , but the following units are no longer available: scouts, assault marines, vanguard vets., bike squads, land speeders, and Sternguard vets. (sternguard vets. are replaced by Iron Guard Veterans (see below), predators, whirlwinds, thunderfire cannons and thunderhawks/stormravens

also, to answer your question regarding the squad size of the iron guard veterans squads, the answer would be 6 models.

Honestly numbers fixes aren't going to help this. You need to step back and take it from a whole different angle.

Toughness is a tricky stat to work with because so many armies rely on weight of fire to take down marines, and toughness has an exponential effect on that. If you're looking for a shieldwall type of effect, why not try improved saves instead?

"Arsenal of Iron" - Any Tactical Marine Squad may replace all of it's models weapons (including grenades, if any) with Combat Shields and Chainswords for +5 points per model. One model per five may further replace his Chainsword with a Power Weapon or his Combat Shield with a Storm Shield for + 15 points. The unit gains the Ranks of Iron Special Rule.

"Ranks of Iron" - While in base contact with at least one other model with this rule, models treat their save as one lower. (3+ becomes 2+ and so on) If a model with a Storm Shield is in base contact with at least one other model with a Storm Shield these models (and only these models) benefit from a Feel No Pain (4+).

Thank you, i realize that i may want to give up on the whole idea.

 OnlyWar wrote:


Thank you, i realize that i may want to give up on the whole idea.

Don't give up, just stop trying to make good units even better with some rules and points cost out the wazzoo.

Think about stuff logically. For instance: Why should your guys get hammer of wrath? They move in a Phalanx type formation, they aren't hitting with incredible speed, nor do they really charge, because doing so would break formation. Why should the models get become more resistant to damage because they fight in a group? Their armor is the pinnacle of tech that man can offer in numbers, it already protects them enough. How about you make their melee attacks at +1 Strength, and make them fight at a lower initiative to represent them fighting together? Black Templars do something similar through their Champion, I don't find it incredibly OP. Why do they need relentless if they fight in a Phalanx? They wouldn't care about heavy weapons, or anything that would make them need relentless. I think you're looking to make a basic unit(Tactical Marines) a deathstar on its own with your rules. Just tone it down. Maybe change "Arsenal of Iron" to they may replace their bolters with a combat shield, and to something along the lines of "Any number of space marines in the squad may exchange their close combat weapon for a Power Weapon at 15 pts per model". You have plenty of cool options you can come up with, I just think you are trying to over do what you have to make them nigh unstoppable.

Good to know, but i gave them hammer of wrath becuse, when they attack they are going to be shield bashing thier enemies during the charge, but simply giving them conccusive when they first charge is way to OP.

Besides what Curran12 has already said (took the words right out of my mouth), you really need to do one thing when making rules.

Keep it simple.

I'm talking really simple. A special marine chapter doesn't need a dozen rules and purchasable upgrades to make them unique or special. A paint job, a name, and a singular rule is all it takes for your marine chapter to be unique and special. Subtlety is your friend, and simplicity your ally. Use them to your advantage.

Never forgot that you have to actually play this in a game, and the more rules you tack on, the more rules you have to remember and reference and double check point costs. This applies doubly so for your opponent who literally has zero knowledge of your army and has to constantly ask you what each power/upgrade/snowflake rule your army has at various points. It bogs down the game unnecessarily and really contributes nothing.

Do everyone a favour, including yourself, and make simple, easy to use and explain rules. So simple a 7-year old will understand how it works.

Reduced it Down to One rule.

Doctrine of Steel- 5 pts per model
as long as a model is is in base contact from another model (not neccacarilly from the same squad) they get a +1 bonus to toughness and thier armor save is improved by one. in order for this rule to apply the model in question must be carring a storm shield (8 pts per model) or combat shield (5 pts per model) the marines taking this upgrade only carry one special weapon in the squad, and may not take heavy weapons. this special rule replaces chapter tactics.

 Dakkamite wrote:

Here i Edited It to make it More Balanced

Iron Guards

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD9 Save+3

amm currently working on the wargear

What are these exactly? Price? Slot? Is that a 3+ save or something else? Do they really need 2 attacks and WS 5 ~ remember, WS 5 is heroes and super badass gladiator type units like Wyches

and even wyches are only WS4


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Has anyone stopped to ask why?

Why should this chapter exist?