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 insaniak wrote:
I'm not sure that any of those options fit... I write my lists at home, and expect opponents to do the same. Not because of list tailoring though... I just don't want to have to wait around for half an hour while they write a list on the fly.

If you're taking an army to a gaming venue, there is absolutely no reason you can't have lists pre-generated for whatever points values are commonly played in your area.

This.

I really don't understand how some people can't have their list ready before a game, even if they have a massive collection, they know what they have, just make their list ahead of time, what's so hard in that? I have several lists for my tiny collection, and I just pick the one I want to use at the game, not list-tailoring, they're just different lists with similar build... Like one with reavers and one without, just depending on my mood that day.

I have several pre made lists, which I choose from based on the enemy's army (several is 3, not one per army)

Make mine at home and bring x amount of lists depending on what and whom I am I playing. And after having played he same crowd for x amount of years with the odd new arrival I can be sure I know what is waiting for me.

I just love the face of my opponent when I answer; "Imperial Guard", and plonk down an all-infantry army making most of his obnoxious list-tailoring for naught.
Same goes with my shooty Orks with Tau allies.
Or when simply saying; "Dark Angels"....and watch him squirm and "erhm" and "uhm" and "ah"...while trying to decide whether it would be too lame to ask whether I play Death-, Raven- or Green-wing - knowing the answer would be; "Feth off, kid. I only play with "adults"".

Played a game yesterday. The guy actually had the audacity to ask, "Do you mind if I counts-as all my plasma guns as melta guns, since you're playing Guard".

Yes, I mind. Thanks.

 Blacksails wrote:
Make an all-comers at home. If someone wants to play me, I expect them to have a list already done up, or to make one without knowledge of my list. Forces both players to build balanced lists that can take on a variety of threats. Anything else just becomes a game of tailor-counter tailoring.

That last part sounds like my wargaming life.

I only play against one person (social anxiety issues prevent me from playing at a store or club) and I make both the lists whenever we play (though of course she has total power over what goes into her side) so I take lots of anti-Ork stuff and often select wargear and units to defeat certain units in her army. So since she plays Orks, I don't take a lot of power swords, but instead opt for mauls. I take Assault Squads with Jump Packs instead of a Battle Conclave so I can get to her backfield quickly to take down those Lootas. She takes Lootas to deal with my Penitent Engines, which I take to deal with her Meganobz and Mega-armored Warboss.

I pre arrange games vs opponents I know, pickup games are horrible in my esperience.


When I arrange a game I'll say "hey do you want to play a game against my (fill in army here)?" to which my opponent will say "sure, I'll bring my (fill in army here)".

So given that context, the one in which I play, how can I or my opponent not be "list tailoring"?

I generally play two kinds of game these days:

Tournaments. So my list is done well ahead of time. There is a set start time, and while we are casual and sometimes start late, there is no reason not to have your list ahead of time to keep things moving.

Casual games when some friends are in from out of town. These are normally team games set up weeks in advance. So I've hashed out an outline of my list with my partners ahead of time, and written up the specifics before I head down to play. As the reason for the one guy to be in town is often holidays/events, our games normally start after he does his family stuff. As none of us are as young as we used to be, we'd rather get all the paperwork done ahead of time and not end up playing until 2 in the morning. Of course, sometimes we end up doing that anyway.

And even knowing the teams, I still need to bring a TAC army, as half the guys have multiple armies.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Make an all-comers at home. If someone wants to play me, I expect them to have a list already done up, or to make one without knowledge of my list. Forces both players to build balanced lists that can take on a variety of threats. Anything else just becomes a game of tailor-counter tailoring.

That last part sounds like my wargaming life.

I only play against one person (social anxiety issues prevent me from playing at a store or club) and I make both the lists whenever we play (though of course she has total power over what goes into her side) so I take lots of anti-Ork stuff and often select wargear and units to defeat certain units in her army. So since she plays Orks, I don't take a lot of power swords, but instead opt for mauls. I take Assault Squads with Jump Packs instead of a Battle Conclave so I can get to her backfield quickly to take down those Lootas. She takes Lootas to deal with my Penitent Engines, which I take to deal with her Meganobz and Mega-armored Warboss.

With social anxiety issues, you'd fit right in at most clubs.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Make an all-comers at home. If someone wants to play me, I expect them to have a list already done up, or to make one without knowledge of my list. Forces both players to build balanced lists that can take on a variety of threats. Anything else just becomes a game of tailor-counter tailoring.

That last part sounds like my wargaming life.

I only play against one person (social anxiety issues prevent me from playing at a store or club) and I make both the lists whenever we play (though of course she has total power over what goes into her side) so I take lots of anti-Ork stuff and often select wargear and units to defeat certain units in her army. So since she plays Orks, I don't take a lot of power swords, but instead opt for mauls. I take Assault Squads with Jump Packs instead of a Battle Conclave so I can get to her backfield quickly to take down those Lootas. She takes Lootas to deal with my Penitent Engines, which I take to deal with her Meganobz and Mega-armored Warboss.

With social anxiety issues, you'd fit right in at most clubs.

Maybe. I also have an unshakable mental image of people stealing my stuff should I go in to play WH40k and need to get a drink or use the mall's bathroom.

 Pouncey wrote:

Maybe. I also have an unshakable mental image of people stealing my stuff should I go in to play WH40k and need to get a drink or use the mall's bathroom.

You could always wear a diaper and bring a flask! Full of good ideas today...

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Maybe. I also have an unshakable mental image of people stealing my stuff should I go in to play WH40k and need to get a drink or use the mall's bathroom.

You could always wear a diaper and bring a flask! Full of good ideas today...

No (from what I hear, those things aren't designed for a full load anyways, just some small leakage) and I don't drink alcohol.

I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I'm finding this conversation quite amusing.

And, yes, I can totally see someone causally walking out with a load of models from a shop. Helps so much to have a "wingman" who you can ask to watch them while you go.

As for social anxiety, I get around mine by reminding myself that I'm going out to push little plastic army men that cost hundreds of dollars around a table while some guy at least as awkward as I am watches me from the other side taking this whole thing far too seriously. It kind of helps to put things in perspective.

I enjoy the occasional list hammer/counter list hammer games where we both try to pysk each other out about what we are bringing. We've had people put models up on a board while making a list, his opponent tailored for what he saw... those bodels never made it to the game. It was an epic troll.

I have a big range of players at my local, so I'm in the minority on your poll. I make my lists after accepting a game, but I do not list tailor. Most players play multiple armies, or borrow friends' armies, so I tend to run takes-all-comers lists regardless of who I play, and I do not ask what army they're fielding until after I make the list. List-tailoring is a form of soft cheating, and usually is unacceptable. Because different players have different points availabilities, and the time we have to play can vary so much, it isn't always feasible to make lists beforehand.

For 40k I usually just make one list and go because the minis are bigger. In Flames of war I make a core force with a few units in "swing" rolls which I will pull in and out depending on how the army is doing during the day. If unit one isn't doing well, the next game I'll switch it would for one or two units of the same cost and use them instead. With 15mm minis it is easy to have options readily on hand to swap. We do have one person who list tailors when we play so most of us have gotten good at having a couple armies on hand an when he tailors his list to what is on the table from the last game and says he is ready we put the original minis away and play the second army. Really pisses him off, but what is he going to do, complain that we know he is list tailoring and demand we let him tailor his list again?

I usually try to not think too much beyond the armies that my regular opponents play and not get into specific counters when making lists because I have the much larger collection of minis by far and could easily list tailor to crush all of them. Instead I come up with a theme for the battle and my force to focus my attention on. So the goal becomes making a theme and sticking with it instead of just focusing on winning and destroying opponents.

Skriker




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baronyu wrote:
I really don't understand how some people can't have their list ready before a game, even if they have a massive collection, they know what they have, just make their list ahead of time, what's so hard in that? I have several lists for my tiny collection, and I just pick the one I want to use at the game, not list-tailoring, they're just different lists with similar build... Like one with reavers and one without, just depending on my mood that day.

We have one regular who *always* waits until he arrives to get his list together. It is annoying, but we've learned to work around it and use that time to set up the table and get everything else ready and usually by then he is done and we can play. The weird thing is, is that he only has a set number of minis so you'd think by now he would have a list that he goes with and sticks with it, but he reinvents that same list every game. Want to smack him sometimes.

Skriker

I have 1000, 1500, 1750, 1850, and 2000 pt lists prepared before hand, as TAC lists.

I dislike it when someone tailors a list to play my marines, but I'm not going to cry to hard about it. Especially when I win anyways.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I'm finding this conversation quite amusing.

And, yes, I can totally see someone causally walking out with a load of models from a shop. Helps so much to have a "wingman" who you can ask to watch them while you go.

As for social anxiety, I get around mine by reminding myself that I'm going out to push little plastic army men that cost hundreds of dollars around a table while some guy at least as awkward as I am watches me from the other side taking this whole thing far too seriously. It kind of helps to put things in perspective.

Stop giving me the urge to go out and play a game with a stranger!

 Pouncey wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I'm finding this conversation quite amusing.

And, yes, I can totally see someone causally walking out with a load of models from a shop. Helps so much to have a "wingman" who you can ask to watch them while you go.

As for social anxiety, I get around mine by reminding myself that I'm going out to push little plastic army men that cost hundreds of dollars around a table while some guy at least as awkward as I am watches me from the other side taking this whole thing far too seriously. It kind of helps to put things in perspective.

Stop giving me the urge to go out and play a game with a stranger!

But that's 40k. That's how we survive! Can't play the game without taking a chance on a couple strangers!

In the end, I like to be a good sport. I bring a TAC list to every game I play. I'll tweak it from game to game, but always at home. I look at weaknesses against certain lists and try to shore up my ability to deal with them without hurting the TAC ability of it. List tailoring makes the game unfun, at the most basic level. It becomes less of a sporting, fun match between fellow hobbyists and more of a shooting gallery for one person.

 Pouncey wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I'm finding this conversation quite amusing.

And, yes, I can totally see someone causally walking out with a load of models from a shop. Helps so much to have a "wingman" who you can ask to watch them while you go.

As for social anxiety, I get around mine by reminding myself that I'm going out to push little plastic army men that cost hundreds of dollars around a table while some guy at least as awkward as I am watches me from the other side taking this whole thing far too seriously. It kind of helps to put things in perspective.

Stop giving me the urge to go out and play a game with a stranger!

Well sorry, but I'm not driving up to Canada to play 40k with you, so I guess complete and total strangers are your only choice for a new opponent

 gpfunk wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I'm finding this conversation quite amusing.

And, yes, I can totally see someone causally walking out with a load of models from a shop. Helps so much to have a "wingman" who you can ask to watch them while you go.

As for social anxiety, I get around mine by reminding myself that I'm going out to push little plastic army men that cost hundreds of dollars around a table while some guy at least as awkward as I am watches me from the other side taking this whole thing far too seriously. It kind of helps to put things in perspective.

Stop giving me the urge to go out and play a game with a stranger!

But that's 40k. That's how we survive! Can't play the game without taking a chance on a couple strangers!

In the end, I like to be a good sport. I bring a TAC list to every game I play. I'll tweak it from game to game, but always at home. I look at weaknesses against certain lists and try to shore up my ability to deal with them without hurting the TAC ability of it. List tailoring makes the game unfun, at the most basic level. It becomes less of a sporting, fun match between fellow hobbyists and more of a shooting gallery for one person.

Strangers are scariful...

:: hides in my comfy house, away from the silly, scariful strangers ::

Every time I go out, I come back with a new thing that gives me anxiety spikes strong enough to make me jerk hard, stiffen, and drastically affect my breathing when I remember it late at night. Things like handing the cashier 60 dollars to pay for a 39 dollar purchase because my brain sucks at spoken numbers. Or talking to a GW employee about a purchase with a missing part and he sighs when I reply to his query and say I didn't bring the sprues (it was an Eldar Battleforce and I saved the Wave Serpent for last, which is what was missing a sprue) and also didn't bring the receipt. He just looked up my purchase on the computer, but still!