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Neo-5 wrote:
Cheers for that Mcron interesting to see what tips are given from the other side of the fence

I think he will take a long range kannon for fun if nothing else ( as we are both beginners who haven't yet used large templates and flyers!) if he can afford it due to his last experience with orks.

I will concentrate on destroying barges or cannons of any kind before I worry about anything else whilst shooting the wraiths with boys where possible. Saving a big Bomm for the scarabs which he will probably send after my vehicles.

Cheers for you tips and info ill see if I can use them to my advantage unless of course my friend reads this post then I'm screwed!

Can trukks turbo boost and then boyz shoot? I assume not but thought I'd ask incase I'm missing a trick.

Thanks

You're welcome. If you are feeling generous, tell your friend to look at the Cryptek options (they pretty much have Necrons only flamer templates)

Have fun!

Maybe after the game I will

MarkCron wrote:

You're welcome. If you are feeling generous, tell your friend to look at the Cryptek options (they pretty much have Necrons only flamer templates)

Have fun!

I'd agree with you there neo and wait to tell him that! But there are other flamer options. Triarch Stalker with a heat ray (heavy flamer OR 2 shot meltagun) is nasty and the targeting relay (the unit it hits has twin-linked against it for the rest of the turn) is a scare. Also Lords and OL's can take a flamer that doubles up as a boosted ccw but I'd be shocked to see that. The cryptek one MarkCron mentioned is S8 AP1 BUT it rolls to wound against Ld not Toughness. Although any cryptek (except maybe one type-the Eternitytek) is a worry to a rushing Ork army.

Oh btw let us know how the game went when you finally play it!

Will do Mitran its least that I can do after all your guys help.
Really want to keep the wins going with my orks but I think it maybe a tricky one against the cron. But I'm goin in positive will all I've learnt above.

Gonna keep working up different list over the week and see what takes my fancy come the weekend. 1000 points just isn't enough!!! Currently working on a biker boss list as dakka suggested above.

Thanks again guys any more comments or crits on my list above feel free to keep throwing things at me after all knowledge is power!


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Here's another list I like the look of any thoughts? Better or worst than my previous list? Mainly added more lootas and removed power klaws from nobs as I don't believe the will see much krumping to justify their points cost against the cron.

Dropped the the gretchin so my SAG mek and lootas may not have the cover and I'm not sure how I would hold an objective with this list but its a nice looking setup for fire power.

Big Mek (113pts)
'Eavy armour, Ammo runt, Cybork body, Shokk attack gun.

Lootas (105pts)
7x Loota, 7x Deffgun
7x Loota, 7x Deffgun

Ork Boyz (127pts)
11x Boyz - Shoota
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole,
Trukk, Big shoota

Ork Boyz (127pts)
11x Boyz - Shoota
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole,
Trukk, Big shoota

Ork Boyz (127pts)
11x Boyz - Shoota
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole,
Trukk, Big shoota

Deffkopta (60pts)
Bigbomm, Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkopta (70pts)
Buzzsaw, Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkopta (45pts)
Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Supa kannon Half Trakk (120pts)

I've split the lootas to give my opponent who will be aiming for them in turn one something to think about and he can't just nuke them all with a big blast in one go.

Not got alot to hold objectives and as we are playing one objective each I could do with some gretchin but not sure where to shave the points off.

Buzz saw kopta to try and seal the deal on the Av13 with one big Bomm for scarabs and some back up missiles on the third.

Large blast coming from the mek and supa kannon half trakk from way down town so plenty of heavy fire but enough boyz?

Ta

I like this list, it's running along the same lines as my trukk list which I thoroughly enjoyed using.

Like any list theres a few things you should change about, or at least be aware of.

-Kill Points. Someone mentioned this, and it's not a game you want to play as Orks. Personally I find it a terrible scenario, one that favours certain armies over others for an arbitrary reason, and refuse to play it unless I roll that mission that has it.

-Big Mek. 'eavy armour isn't a great buy here. Generally speaking, people are going to snipe him with various big guns at AP4 or better, or swarm him with a fast melee unit that will wreck his face regardless of a 4+ save (which they will also probably ignore). I'd drop it if you don't have anything else worthwhile to put the points into

-Deffkoptas. I seem to be talking about deffkoptas alot lately, so forgive me if we've already had this discussion. Koptas aren't the greatest use for your points. The bomm in particular is trash IMO, by all means give it a go if you like since thats far better than listing to some dude on the net tell you what to think about it. But if you want to win against this Necron guy, I highly suggest you just take *one* to limit the potentially wasted points. For what your spending on the koptas (175) you could confortably get another Supa Trakk and half the boyz for another trukk. They're very much a gamble. Between your three koptas, on average two will appear where you want them, getting one hit on rear armour, that has a 50% chance of a no bonuses pen. Since the Necrons ignore crew shaken and stuff, that pen has a good chance of just being a glance. That 50% pen has a 33% of immobilizing or killing the cannon (practically the same thing since it's not in a turret)

-Lootas. Dig deep and find 15 points for a fifteenth Loota, then run them in fives. This is a great way to boost their efficiency if you don't have the points for a whole bunch of them. Lootas, being AP4, are fantastic against Necron troops so they'll be even better than usual against this guy.

-Big Choppas. I liked this list until I saw you had BC in the Trukks. Don't do it man. Slugga trukks are a Klaw delivery system, without the Klaw, theres nothing worthwhile to deliver.

Ill try and relist with claws more lootas and less koptas see if I can make something work.

Would the big Bomm not be good against scarabs swarms?
I thought it maybe a good way to wipe them out in one go as its a small scatter and a large template? To help the trukks?

But if I took the Bomm I would want another cannon killing kopta also so starting to get pricey.

Ill get my friend to do a random roll before we start the game save it being biased then

Ta

Your call. A bomm will put the hurt on swarms, but can swarms put the hurt on you? My understanding is they are a non-scoring fast melee unit thats only good against vehicles ~ something you don't really need to worry that much about. I've never faced swarms (all Imperial all the time sadly), but they have some rule where blast weapons do multiple wounds or something? If they're important enough to warrant a bomm kopta, they're important enough to warrent one round of shooting late in the game from a single Supa Trakk or SAG.

You need the klaws and the lootas, but the koptas is just personal opinion. Feel free to leave them in if you really want to give them a go, but the klaws and loota are pretty much compulsary

Perhaps a few grot bombs would be a cheaper more effective way of laying down templates and twin linked for nearly half the points of a big bomm kopta.

My friend will not know they are out of line of sight so he will hide his 72" cannons from them.but they will still hit - is barrage rule just basically meaning that I can hit out of line of sight? The rule book shows 3 templates but I assume the grot bomb doesn't get 3? Just one large blast.

If I take 3 I can aim one at the scarabs also instant death and 2 wounds per wound for being a swarm. That's seems a more cost effective way.

This feels.better

Scarabs are beasts, swarms and vulnerable to blasts (they have some other special rules, including Fearless). The thing about scarabs is that they have entropic strike, which effectively takes away armour saves - either from multi wound models but usually from vehicles. Key stats are WS3 S3 T3 W3 A4.

When attacking a vehicle, for EACH hit we get to roll for entropic strike - 4+ and we remove 1 armour point from all facings. So, if I get 10 hits, I get say 5 entropic strikes and remove 5 armour points. So if you started at AV11, you are now AV6 for the rest of the game. Now I get to penetrate against AV6 with my S3.

It also works against multi wound non infantry models, any unsaved wound and your armour save goes. However, given S3, this doesn't happen often (but is HILARIOUS when it works).

Scarabs work really well with Zandrek, who gives them Furious charge for S4. Then they are nasty against MEQ.

Also, as Fearless, they are excellent tarpit units. If I take Spyders I can spawn bases (even into a CC!).

Don't get too excited about the vulnerable to blasts as this was just FAQ'd.

If you get an unsaved wound, you get to double it. However, its effectively against the base. So if you hit the scarabs with S6 vs their T3, cause a wound to a base, you then ID that base. But, you then double it (ie cause an additional wound) which also IDs the SAME base - so effectively you killed the same base twice.

Jesus, all these constant rule changes you can never be sure about how the hell you play this game these days.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Jesus, all these constant rule changes you can never be sure about how the hell you play this game these days.

Yep, it is getting difficult to keep up. This was one fair and just though

Don't think my friend or I would noticed that rule so thanks for the info.

Still think a grot bomm would help me in wiping them out with its large blast even if its only one insta kill per base rather than 2.

Dakka you think grot bomms are a more cost effective way of providing S8 than the koptas - I think so as they have the chance of taking down armour too and the range its just the one shot that is my concern but I could sit them near my lootas so they can be used as cover/los once fired.

Could you please confirm the barrage rule as the three templates in the rule book diagram are somewhat confusing as I believe the grot bomb only has a single large blast not 3 so it only gains the line of sight and the no ballistic skill reduction?

Thanks for the info

Barrage Weapons: Pick a spot anywhere you like on the map, LoS be damned. If you can't see it, you don't subtract BS from scatter. In addition, the attack will always hit a vehicle's side armour and you remove casualties from units as though the shot was coming from the centre of the blast marker.

So yep, your spot on there.

The Supa Kannon and SAG are comparable to the Grot Bomm in pure damage output per shot, but the two weapons platforms have various pros and cons. Personally though I reckon the Grot Bomm is the best choice in this situation.

Ill stick in 2 or 3 I reckon cheers on the confirmation dakka

I will post my final list tonight and then I'm done! I can't keep changing it lol i just need to try it all out like you said.

What's the 3 templates all about in the rule book for barrage then?

Thanks

Hmmm now my friend has mentioned using two command barges and at their low cost he may take the doomsday kannon as well! May be he's playing mind games with me - what do the annihilation barges have in the way of fire power?

The AB has a Twin linked tesla destructor (S7 AP- Assault 4, Tesla, Arc) and a Tesla cannon (S6 AP- Assault 2 Tesla). If you don't know, tesla means that for every 6 roll to hit 2 more shots are generated. Arc means that units within 6" suffer D6 S5 AP- hits on a 6 as well. The CCB you mentioned is a transport for a character and has a tesla cannon as mentioned

fething dakka ate my post, so you get the abridged version.

My dex says it has a Tesla Cannon rather than a destructor. Thats 24" range, S6, two shots that become more shots if you roll a 6 to hit. It can trade that for a Gauss Cannon which is S5 AP3 but your not Marines so you don't care about that. Neither of these guns should concern you very much unless it can get behind something with gakky rear armour (ie, all of our vehicles)

Essentially its a land speeder with living metal. Pen it with a kannon and then, if it doesn't go down, I reckon a min sized squad of Lootas will kill it. Honestly its barely even worth the dakka to bring it down, he's just taking it to scare you into wasting your shots.

And quantum shielding (AV 13 front+side till pen'd). If he runs it his OL/named character will be on it alone. So bring it down in cc or while a unit is close. The HQ will get out, then mob him with a tough cc unit and boom! Warlord slain, 1 VP to you. If he chooses an AB it is 24" but the fire it puts out is nasty, high priority.

Has the Annihilation barge been FAQed to have different weapons or something? 24" S6 AP- Assault 2 Telsa isn't scary at all man

So, let's just clarify what we are talking about here.

The Command Barge is a Chariot, and carries a telsa or gauss cannon, Tesla S6 AP-, assault 2 while the Gauss cannon is S5 AP3, Assault 2, Gauss.

Because it is a chariot, the rider (normally an overlord with Warscythe) can make D3 sweep attacks during the MOVEMENT phase on any unit it flies over. Also, the chariot has the Hammer of Wrath special rule, and makes d6 I10 attacks. The rider gets a -1 benefit to armour save, so a typical overlord with a 3+save gets a 2+ because they are on the chariot.

The annihilation barge carries a twin linked tesla destructor (S7 AP- assault 4 Tesla, arcing) AND either a Tesla cannon or Gauss cannon per the above

Both vehicles have quantum shielding which makes them AV13 on front and sides until you get a penetrating hit, when they return to AV11. So, you need a S7 weapon (or something S4+ rending plus a shedload of luck) to GLANCE. 3 hull points.

at 90 points the Anni barge is the most point efficient HS unit in our codex. Hell, it might be the most point efficient HS unit in any codex. It puts out a huge amount of damage, because twin linked Tesla gets a LOT of hits. I routinely get 6 hits from 4 shots from the destructor, before it arcs.

The command barges were really good in 5th ed, because they had a 24" movement in the movement phase. In 6th, you only get 12 inches in the movement phase which tends to limit their usefulness. however, it can be useful because you can overfly a unit, snipe out the sargents with your sweep attacks (hopefully, but you get precision strikes on a 6), then turn round and assault the unit and get D6 HoW attacks from the vehicle at I10. I think you can also SA (but with base I2 Necrons aren't good at SA).

So, from the sounds of it, you'll be up against a mech force.

2 Anni Barges, 2 Command Barges, a Doomsday ark (if he's really nasty, he'll put the Doomsday on a Skyshield). To finish off the army, fill in with warriors in Ghost arks and as he has 2 overlords, expect pairs of Crypteks.

Note that Ghost arks are open topped so you will get overwatch fire from the warriors inside when you assault.

Oh, final point, both the Command Barges and Anni Barges are skimmers (so is the Doomsday Ark) so ramming isn't a reliable option.

Ok, your right, it has both a cannon and destructors. I was only seeing the cannon for some reason.

Becomes much scarier with that in mind.

One thing that is more scary than 2 command barges. Having 2 overlords unlocks another royal court so he can attach 2 crypteks/lords to units.

So, given that if I was tailoring against an ork list, I'd have 8 warriors in a GA, with a despairtek (AP1 Flamer) and a Lord with Resorb and Gauntlet(another flamer!) as my troops. I'd support with AV 13 (so Anni Barges, maybe command barges (but probably not))

Then for additional giggles (on my part) I'd have two pairs of Tremorteks running around. For those that don't know, tremortek have the ability to force units they hit to treat open ground as difficult terrain. If I was feeling really nasty (and had enough points) I'd also chuck in a C'tan which makes difficult terrain dangerous terrain (so you'd be taking dangerous terrain tests when you moved through open ground).

Oh, just to finish off, I'd add Trazyn for empathic obliterator.




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PS - If you want, I'll create a couple of army lists (a fun one, plus a cheese OP one) and post them here.

Wow that's some scary info right there!

I will have to ensure that those annihilation barges go down first along with a potential doomsday cannon thrown in there too!

That's a lot of av13 armour with some nasty fire power! I have a SAG. supa kannon, two grot bomm and two koptaz in my current list to deal with getting that first pen hit on those vehicles.

Sounds like those barges have the potential for clearing up a unit of trukk boyz in a turn or or two. Not sure how many boyz will be left for CC but I just have to hope for early pen hits to put him on the back foot!

I don't know a lot about necron really MarkCron so I will have to read up about the royal court etc. AP1 flamers! Jeez what's wrong with normal flamers they're bad enough but those pesky crons get ap1 and av13 :s.

I'm starting to wonder if screaming my boyz into cc is going to work with only 36 boyz! Especially against predominantly mech units and warscythe lords.

Oh well I will just play this one out and tweak my list in future to suit if I get trampled.

Anyone use tankbustas to any great effect?

Cheers for the info

Tankbustas are pretty meh. The hammers and bomb squigs are good, but needing to take three practically worthless rokkit dudes to take them makes it a big waste of points.

With the new Necron info in mind, sadly I have to say a Gunline is the probably the only way to compete. Maximum Kannons and Lootas and perhaps a SAG or two. The strongest type of list we can field but its not very much fun.

How would you take your troops in a gun line just gretchin and boyz as protection for the big guns and lootas and Lwagons etc? Scrapping trukks and going with more range?

If a gretchin is covering/surrounding a tank (or SAG) is the tank/SAG in line of sight still? and can it be shot or do the gretchin have to be killed first?
I'm not really sure on this as tank/sag would be visible but do the small gretchin count as cover?

Sorry it maybe a simple question/answer but not something I've come across as yet and don't have my rule book to hand.

Cheers

One thing I forgot to mention about the AP1 flamer is that it is S10, but works against your leadership, not toughness. So, If you are L8, then to wound I'd roll S10 vs L8. If you have L10, I need 4's to wound.

The key thing about Necrons is that generally we only have 24" range. Our armour is a pita, but once you get the warriors in the open, they will die to CC.

Command barges are a bit of a gimmick in 6th. 5th they were awesome.

I don't play orks or against orks (unfortunately - I'd like to have some games against Orks) but a gunline doesn't sound like the way to go. The easiest way to neutralise the Necron firepower is to get into CC.

Most normal necron lists won't be tailored vs anti horde with flamers with the warriors. They'll just have a stormtek or a lancetek to crunch vehicles.

What you will find in most Necron lists is a reliance on Tesla. This will come in the form of Anni Barges and Scythes (with some immortals thrown in occasionally).

The Necron codex allows for a multitude of specialist builds, AV13 spam, Wraithwing, CronAir (even scarab farms - not so much in 6th). So, don't try and tailor for necrons because the way you play against the specialist builds will be different.

As I understand it, the Ork armies are horde based, but have vicious movement options. As you chose orks, play the variant that you like, just make sure (as with any list) that you can deal with heavy armour and flyers.

The AP1 flamer is S8 not 10, so its killing your boyz on 3+ and your HQ on a 4+ (with ID) unless its a warboss whos wounded on 5+. Orks have got lowish Ld so beware of that. I only played against crons with orks once but the opponent was new and got trounced. That said the AB still scared the hell outta me. If he takes 2... You're gonna need some serious fire priority to bring that and the D.Ark down. I think outflankers/DS will neutralise the ark because it will have to move and go rubbish. The ABs just need to die to weight of fire (or a lucky rokkit shot)

Christ's sake, dakka ate my post again and I can't be assed typing it all up again.

Simply put, fighting Necrons is sounding more and more like the last time I fought a helldrake. Lots and lots of special rules and not all that much fun if they take certain units (Doomsday Ark for instance).

I think Markcron might be right about the boys. A forcefield Mek for the cover save, three Kannon Batteries for versatility, some rokkit koptas or Stormboys for threatening/annoying/shield dropping/LoS blocking the Doomsday ark, and a horde of boys. Personally I'd make the first wave shootas, but the second wave sluggas. Its likely you'll get stuck in and after that first round of combat the sluggas are 50% better than the shootas. However 100% Shootas would also be an option

On a wide board, your kannons can kill that ark fairly reliably within a few turns. Reserve your boys and throw your kannons and koptas at it until it dies. On a long board, a kopta or two can outflank next to it 2/3 of the time and harass it. If he keeps things near enough to support it he won't be able to take the centre objectives because Necrons are slow as hell. If he doesn't, he has no way of stopping your kopta simply parking in front of that cannon and forcing it to move or shoot the kopta ~ in both cases saving you from a turn of shooting. Either way, your mission will be to move as far up the board as you can without taking losses. Don't even worry about fighting the Necrons, just move slowly and carefully up the board and sit on objectives, preferably from inside of cover. If he nukes a bunch of boys but at the end of the game you have all the objectives, you've won.

Edit: Stormboys in particular would be fantastic. Minimum squad with or without Zagstruk. If without, DS them behind a rock or something and assault that cannon. If with, just DS right next to him. Maybe even take two squads for more certainty. That PK Nob is a very likely penetrating hit and/or kill on that bloody thing and once thats down nothing else in the Necron list is even remotely as scary.

Are you still talking about taking trukks with the Shootas and Choppas to get them up the board fast or just footslogging with more boyz?

Maybe run a big mek KFF in the central of 3 trukks getting the cover save for all 3. Some stormboyz and a kannon battery keeping it cheap but losing out on the large blasts but as melee is the key then this would be more beneficial.

Like the thought if zagstruk but if in a minimum group and I loose 3 for the assault rule then I would be down to half the squad size meaning a double one for regroup if failed leadership (I maybe wrong here as I'm a beginner). Could this mean the unit has to roll a leadership test before the assault if so that's a bit naff. Hopefully its tested after assault so he still gets his attacks off!

May try and squeeze a supa kannon in to try and give me some heavy fire power.

Thanks guys

 Dakkamite wrote:

Simply put, fighting Necrons is sounding more and more like the last time I fought a helldrake. Lots and lots of special rules and not all that much fun if they take certain units (Doomsday Ark for instance).

I think in most reasonable Necron lists there aren't a huge number of special rules. There are no psykers, and generally the special powers come from wargear (which seems about similar to the level of options in a marine based codex). Generally, things like the Doomsday ark aren't seen, because as @Mit said, get the thing to move and it's effectiveness goes down dramatically.

Imho, necrons are great for beginners, because the units individually can take a bit of a beating (reanimation protocols ftw) and units generally aren't too expensive so you can have a couple of them. Because of that, they are reasonably easy to play. But, once you get the combos right, they can be really nasty to play against, particularly if the list is tailored.

I wouldn't get too concerned about the DA tbh. With speed and shooting, you'll negate it's effectiveness (particularly if you deep strike something next to it). Also, playing around with some specifically tailored Cron lists, I don't think there is going to be a lot of redundancy, especially if there are 2 command barges running around.

You'll have an advantage, because your target priority should now be clear...just get a list you like and have fun.

 Dakkamite wrote:

On a wide board, your kannons can kill that ark fairly reliably within a few turns. Reserve your boys and throw your kannons and koptas at it until it dies. On a long board, a kopta or two can outflank next to it 2/3 of the time and harass it. If he keeps things near enough to support it he won't be able to take the centre objectives because Necrons are slow as hell.

No. You can have necron lists that don't move fast, but you really have to work to achieve that. Essentially, you'd have to leave out wraiths, scarabs, scythes, DLords, Praetorians, probably Ghost arks, not to mention Veils.