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I've never liked plasma cannons. I never felt they did anything better than normal plasma guns. I've never much liked the Forgefiend in any way over triple las preds or havocs.

Cypher's Sword wrote:
EDIT: Oh and what about the defiler, I don't see anyone swooning over him any more, what happened to him?

He got a lot of new special rules that don't really help him overall, and his points went way up. Oh, and you take him for the battlecannon which means everything else snap fires :(

Ectofiends look really awesome and intimidating, but I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where they would excel.

TzeentchNet wrote:

Cypher's Sword wrote:

Ectofiends look really awesome and intimidating, but I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where they would excel.

Exactly.

Best case scenario all you fight are T4 multi wound models with no flyers.

How common is that?

Ectofiends are over 200 points for 3 small blasts... The biggest problem is if they get penetrated you're done. For roughly the same price you get 6 wounds worth of oblits who are much heartier and also have much more utility. If Someone assaults your forgefiend you're boned, if someone charges oblits at least you have 3 power fists!

each unit has their synergy... autocannon havocs you take with ADL/quad or a bastion, Oblits I like to take 9 and fully upgraded with a midrange-assaulty force (nurgles good) so they walk up the board/deepstrike, preds and forgefiends are good too but you need a mech list and some warpsmith support.

Oblits are the most versatile of all of them, and quite good because this edition really favors troops that fire and advance, 2+ armor saves, and powerfists. The assault cannon is also a real nice addtion to them.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Ectofiends are over 200 points for 3 small blasts... The biggest problem is if they get penetrated you're done. For roughly the same price you get 6 wounds worth of oblits who are much heartier and also have much more utility. If Someone assaults your forgefiend you're boned, if someone charges oblits at least you have 3 power fists!

You've mentioned have of the reason that I struggle to find a use for Ectofiends.

Just looking at Obliterators with plasma cannons.
You're gaining 12" and +1BS for -1S.

On the other side, Vindicators bring a large blast and +2S for 1 less shot.

In both cases, the Vindicator and a pair of Oblits are significantly cheaper than the Ectofiend.

I find that a pair of Defilers + ML Havocs is a good combo.

People keep saying that Defilers suck, bucause it's a vehicle. I find them resilent for most of the game, because I *want* my opponent to shoot at 'em.

Obliterators are the better choice for sure.

Anyone have any throught on how to optimize the use of Maulerfiends?

I think Maulerfiends with other fast threats will work better within an assault army than support fire oblitz.

The first thing that pops out to me is a small taskforce of maulerfiend(s), khorne puppies, spawn or bikers and a rhino squad. First turn everything is moving 12"+. After that, you'll likely disembark the rhino squad and put the rhino forward (with a dirge caster) to block shots and stop overwatch as you assault with the rest.

CannedKhorne wrote:
Obliterators are the better choice for sure.

Anyone have any throught on how to optimize the use of Maulerfiends?

I think Maulerfiends with other fast threats will work better within an assault army than support fire oblitz.

The thing is that oblits are so good for a fast assault army. You can deepstrike them into enemy lines as you rush forwards so they are pretty much as fast as anything else... also good just walking up as a second wave. You can assault just fine with them too, most units will die unless they have some way to cut through their armor, and I like to walk them/deepstrike with Typhus.

Maulerfiends are good at popping vehicles in assault and are very fast and useful for maybe tying up units, but on the other hand you have no tools to deal with flyers, fast things or things on the other side of the board, just no shooting at all.

 Goat wrote:
Whatever question you want to ask about the HS, the answer is always Obliterators.

this all way. MoN oblits. You're welcome.

MoN Oblitz I think are the best choice as well.

Exalbaru wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Whatever question you want to ask about the HS, the answer is always Obliterators.

this all way. MoN oblits. You're welcome.

I disagree.

In a vacuum, with no other knowledge about a player's list, preferred tactics or local meta, sure its a safe bit of internet wisdom.

But the fact remains that other options, especially predators and havocs can fill the role of long range heavy firepower better.

Oblits are almost always a good choice, but not the best choice.

I agree. It all depends on the rest of your list and how you use it. Oblits standing in cover in the backfield are pretty weak these days, you can't really rely on their lascannons and most of their other guns are very short range. If I didn't have an aggressive playstyle or list I would probably use autocannon havocs instead and just ally in some other good choices.

Yeah, Oblits are a mid-field unit now in 6th edition.

I always prefer havocs over Oblits. I'll trade the versatility of the Oblits for raw fire power and a bit of durability. Lascannon havocs for heavy tanks and Autocannons for transports. I've never really been impressed with their firepower per point, so I leave em at home. Doesn't help that the models are ugly as sin.

 Goat wrote:
Whatever question you want to ask about the HS, the answer is always Obliterators.

Truth.

 whembly wrote:
I find that a pair of Defilers + ML Havocs is a good combo.

People keep saying that Defilers suck, bucause it's a vehicle. I find them resilent for most of the game, because I *want* my opponent to shoot at 'em.

Those are very expensive fire magnets, given the Tau and Eldar codices...

Yeah, Defilers are a good unit... Idk, Obliterators do a lot of damage up close I found out when playing today, Assault Cannon very some eldar troops is nasty!