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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

They aren't what? They're not obviously trying to trick people into thinking they're getting an unusually good price on something? It's pretty silly to think that "it doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money" means that that's not the impression they're trying to create.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something.

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

The limited time offer and big letters make you think it's a special deal, when in fact all you get is all the products added to your shopping basket with one click instead of several. Savings are never offered but the bundle did make people think there's an offer, either in money savings or something extra added.

Spetulhu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something.

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

The limited time offer and big letters make you think it's a special deal, when in fact all you get is all the products added to your shopping basket with one click instead of several. Savings are never offered but the bundle did make people think there's an offer, either in money savings or something extra added.

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

pantsonhead wrote:
This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

This is the case in Australia. A complaint can be upheld if it is thought to be taken a certain way by a reasonable person. For example - advertising "unlimited broadband" plans that didn't have unlimited download quotas is not allowed, saying things like "but we were referring to unlimited time, not quota!" doesn't cut it.

There is no mention of savings here, but the intent and "limited time, act now!" could very well get them a "don't do that again" in Australia if people complained to the ACCC (Australian Competition & Consumer Commission) about it due to the intent being to deceive regardless of what was said. Maybe not though as they didn't profess any savings at all so it might fall below the "reasonable" threshold required. No reasonable person that I know would buy one of these.

pantsonhead wrote:
I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

We all know GW has a legal department, it's the only business concept they endorse over editors, R&D, and play testing. So what they post on their site, be it deceptive or not, is legal.

 Goat wrote:
We all know GW has a legal department, it's the only business concept they endorse over editors, R&D, and play testing. So what they post on their site, be it deceptive or not, is legal.

Their legal team has recently proven to be fallible. Also, possession of lawyers in no way correlates with legality. If anything, possession of lawyers could be proportional to the prevalence of unethical and/or illegal acts ; p

 Yonan wrote:

 Goat wrote:
We all know GW has a legal department, it's the only business concept they endorse over editors, R&D, and play testing. So what they post on their site, be it deceptive or not, is legal.

Their legal team has recently proven to be fallible. Also, possession of lawyers in no way correlates with legality. If anything, possession of lawyers could be proportional to the prevalence of unethical and/or illegal acts ; p

Touche

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And many dont, You are not entitled to a discount on things just because you buy alot.

No, I don't think anyone said you were entitled (I keep seeing that word applied out of turn, and it's troubling) to one. It is a common enough practice though such that people expect it when they hear the word bundle.

Phone companies give you a couple bucks off when you buy the phone/charger/case/fluffy throw-in "bundle".

Microcenter gives you a discount when you buy their processor/motherboard "bundle".

DirectTV et. al. gives you discounted service when you "bundle" multiple services.

It's a little different, but I can buy 100 DC voltage transformers for 3 bucks when one transformer runs me about 4.

Hell, GW used to give you discounts when you bought their bundles, except they called it a "Battleforce".

The expectation (which they have even previously set) is not an unreasonable one. Especially when this ultrahot 0% off offer is going on only for 24 hours, as if they're actually doing the customer a favor.

Games workshop should be more open about this, i don't think i would have been this upset if i'd known ... No what am i saying, Games Workshop should take at least 10% off, every where else give a discount hell even other companies selling GW products do discount. If they want to do 1 click items they should go into the basket as the individual items so people can make their own changes.

 Valkyrie wrote:
The One-Click Bundles had me a bit puzzled at first but I'm completly lost as to why this is a "Super Duper One-Off Deal that you have to buy within 24 hours or your life will be void".

Assuming you didn't buy it, how do you feel about your life now? I can feel a gapping void in my heart that could only be filled by a £407 Iyanden army bundle(total saving 0%), even though I don't play Eldar!

 shamikebab wrote:
I remember the buy two get one free blister pack/box set deals :(

Same.

That's actually how I got into the hobby.

Hospy wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
I remember the buy two get one free blister pack/box set deals :(

Same.

That's actually how I got into the hobby.

That was a thing? When did they stop doing that?

 Ailaros wrote:
They don't offer a discount because they don't have to. They know that if you're going to start an iyanden army, that you're going to buy a whole bunch of wraith stuff anyways. They don't need to entice you buy what you were already going to purchase with things like special sales and discounts.

I mean, it's sort of like going to a gun store, buying a gun, and then asking why there isn't a special deal on ammunition.

I sure get a discount on ammo when buying in quantity, buying 50 rounds of 9mm is way more expensive (per round) than buying 100/200/500/1000 rounds of 9mm.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
They don't offer a discount because they don't have to. They know that if you're going to start an iyanden army, that you're going to buy a whole bunch of wraith stuff anyways. They don't need to entice you buy what you were already going to purchase with things like special sales and discounts.

I mean, it's sort of like going to a gun store, buying a gun, and then asking why there isn't a special deal on ammunition.

I sure get a discount on ammo when buying in quantity, buying 50 rounds of 9mm is way more expensive (per round) than buying 100/200/500/1000 rounds of 9mm.

Also, my previous example of getting transformers cheaper per unit depending upon the order of magnitude for which I order them.

I guess they don't because they don't have to.



No but seriously, why would they when they sell enough as it is? If their sales go through the floor, we might see a price cut, but that doesnt look like happening because we fething LOVE IT

But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

http://www.dollardays.com/wholesale-jewelry.html

Course it's not common, but still.

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

They may however throw in related services (refitting, polishing etc) for free or at a discount.


Ultimately, however, no, nobody *has* to, but in general bulk discounts are common, and serve to entice people to order greater quantities. I certainly wouldn't own my Eldar or Tau armies were it not for the Apocalypse packages released for them ~2006/2007ish.

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

Well, for custom stuff and things that require production runs, the manufacturing cost is overall cheaper the more of them you can do in a run. You see this a lot in made-to-order stuff like print on demand, screen printing on tshirts or other items, and shot glasses. I'd imagine electronics are similar. You batch print the PCB and have some Chinese guy who looked at the schematic earlier just churn out 100 of them in a day, rather than losing time making him stop to memorize another one.

Not to mention that the time spent packing them reduces somewhat as quantity increases to an extent. Finally, for large enough orders, the profit is great enough that you can let margin slip a tiny bit to allow for a competitive edge.

That last bit is probably the cause of our discussion, as GW appears to fail to realize they have the need for any sort of competitive price-point, as they fancy themselves the Lamborghini of what's already a luxury good.

So, in that case, if GW offered the same price, then GW would make more profit due to lower production costs, etc.

Of course, if you work for GW, you wouldn't be able to read past the part where I said "GW would make more profit". Really, there's no disincentive to just take the money, rather than to offer a discount.

I will agree, though, that it is in poor taste to pitch it as if it were at a discount when it isn't, even if that discount is only vaguely implied.

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

We're not talking about one, two or three models/boxes ... its 11 items. I would put good money on most shops being able to negotiate a discount ... heck if you go into a jeweler and ask for 10 weddings with a discount they'll be open to the idea.

pantsonhead wrote:
I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

That's what i was thinking. It's dishonest and sleazy tactic.

He sounds like he's defending a scammer. If there was some guy selling bad product or faulty used cars or something he would probably defend that guy too.

kb305 wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

That's what i was thinking. It's dishonest and sleazy tactic.

He sounds like he's defending a scammer. If there was some guy selling bad product or faulty used cars or something he would probably defend that guy too.

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

I think offering a 24 hour short lived offer is slightly misleading in that people would normally expect a discount. That is what is typically suggested by the short period of availability after the new product is released, the exciting presentation, you think it's some introductory deal when it's nothing but a time saver.

GW don't mention a discount because there isn't one, there's nothing wrong in what they've done but presenting it in the manner they do, does play somewhat on customer expectations, meaning they think there's a discount involved.

Simply, buyer beware, know what you're getting. If they aren't trumpeting a discount then there probably isn't one of much note.

I don't think GW do sales or offers because they see themselves as a premium brand that has to maintain perceived value. Like expensive makeup or perfume, to discount it like they used to (drastic new year sales shifting dead stock) reveals the margin on these things and just how cheap they are to make. Also like clothing manufacturers that don't make large sizes because they don't want fat people to be seen wearing their brand, I feel there's an element of GW not wanting poor players. They don't want to encourage people buying cheap or getting into the game cheaply, they don't want third party manufacturers providing cheaper alternatives (a big part of their argument against Chapterhouse was devaluing their product image) kitbashing tables and scenery and doing things that are cheap and free. What they want is to sell everything at top prices, no discounts, to people with deep pockets who don't moan. People want to play but aren't rich aren't for them.

Vaktathi wrote:

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

They may however throw in related services (refitting, polishing etc) for free or at a discount.

Once again, I question how much this is actually free. It seems more likely that you're paying the same amount for a ring and it's attendant services, but they just increased the price of the ring so that they could offer the services for "free".

Going from spending $480 on a ring and $20 in services to spending $500 on a ring and then getting free services isn't actually a discount.

In fact, one could make the argument that it's even less honest than what GW is doing at the moment.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

Not the fact it was limited time only? Maybe i buy from e-buyer too often but limited time offer = discount.

Then again what was exactly limited? Being able select them all in one go? isn't that more of a negative? I know i wouldn't pick extra Wraith lords since i all ready have 4.

GW might still offer bulk discounts. 3 models, however, is hardly a bulk purchase. Try buying 300 of a 3-in-box models and see if that gets you anything.

 Tri wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

Then again what was exactly limited? Being able select them all in one go? isn't that more of a negative? I know i wouldn't pick extra Wraith lords since i all ready have 4.

Not the fact it was limited time only? Maybe i buy from e-buyer to often but limited time offer = discount.

Does the limited time offer you are familiar with tell you that there's a discount? In my experience, whenever there is a discount it's mentioned somewhere. So to me limited time event =/= discount, discount mentioned = discount. The fact that it's for a limited amount of time does not matter to me. I look for numbers, not marketing hype.

It was limited because it went on for 24 hours. Kinda like their other so called "limited time offers" (you know, get this "special edition of this special bag / codex / whatever, that costs more and is just slightly prettier thing" they like to do these days)